tblYgr_AAHistoryLovers
YahooMessageID From FromEmail Subject SubjectSrt RecDate Message AttCount NewMsgFlag DelMsgFlag FavMsgFlag
5453 J. Lobdell
RE: Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson 12/28/2008 6:36:00 PM


Howard M. Wilson was Bill's cousin.



- - - -



> Hi Jared:

>

> I saw that Virginia added a note beside

> signature number 66, Howard M. Wilson.

> Her note said: "(Bill's brother)"

> How did she come to believe that Bill had

> a brother? As we know, he only had a sister,

> Dorothy. His uncle was Clarence, who is

> buried beside Bill in East Dorset.

>

> Les

> Colorado Springs, CO


0 -1 0 0
5454 Matt Dingle
Re: Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson & John Carney Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson & John Carney 12/28/2008 9:32:00 PM


HOWARD WILSON:



Howard Wilson was Bill Wilson's cousin who

lived at Stepping Stones for a while. Bill

spent time helping him sober up. (I think

Bill's effort eventually came to naught.)



JOHN CARNEY (JACK CARNEY) -- Art Carney's brother



Also, I noticed John Carney's name on the

opposite page from Howard. John (or Jack)

Carney was Art Carney's brother and wrote

the "Take me out to Bellevue" song featured

in the 1993 version of Gresham's Law and

Alcoholics Anonymous:



I¢ve been staying away from the meetings,

I¢ve been staying away from the crowd.

A pint and three nembies, then call the hack,

Here's one wack that is flat on his back.

Take me out to Bellevue,

so I can remember my name,

I must be nuts to think I could cheat

on the AA game.

 

For whatever it is worth.

 

Thanks

 

Matt D.


0 -1 0 0
5455 Sally Brown
Re: Dr. Tiebout Question Dr. Tiebout Question 12/29/2008 11:13:00 AM


Hi, Mike and everybody -



Marty may have been Tiebout's first alcoholic

patient at Blythewood, but we don't know that.

He was already interested in alcoholism when

he met Marty at Bellevue, so probably had had

other such patients.



Marty certainly was not Blythewood's first

alcoholic patient. Grennie Curtis, Nona Wyman,

and a couple of other alcoholic women were

already Blythewood patients when Marty arrived.



(See Chs 12-13 and p 131 of A Biography of

Mrs Marty Mann for info about Grennie).



Happy New Year! Sally





Rev Sally Brown

Board Certified Chaplain

United Church of Christ



Coauthor with David R Brown:

A Biography of Mrs. Marty Mann:

The First Lady of Alcoholics Anonymous

http://www.sallyanddavidbrown.com



1470 Sand Hill Rd, 309

Palo Alto, California 94304

Phone/Fax: 650-325-5258

Email: rev.sally@att.net

(rev.sally at att.net)


0 -1 0 0
5456 DudleyDobinson@aol.com
Just For Today made to stop emails by AA World Services Just For Today made to stop emails by AA World Services 12/31/2008 6:14:00 PM


From Dudley Dobinson, a recovered member of

AA in Ireland:



http://www.aahistory.com/ has a notice that

their Just For Today emails have had to be

stopped. As they announce it on their webpage:



http://www.aahistory.com/jft.html



Dear "Just For Today!" members,



As of December 31, 2008 we find ourselves at

the end of an unplanned transition. Our last

email has been sent, dear readers, until we

can find some suitable material to pass on to

you that can be emailed around the globe

without restrictions.



It's been sheer joy being of service to you

for these last 4,850 days. (One at a time.)



- - - -



An explanation is given in an email they have

sent around to various people:



"AA World Services has asked us to cease and

desist sending AA materials outside the US,

in violation of international copyright

agreements. It’s virtually impossible to

police who is in the US and who isn’t, so

we’re ceasing publication rather than risk

legal action by AAWS."



"Our last posting comes from the first edition

of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, printed in

1939 by Works Publishing Company, pages 178-179

(currently page 164 in the 4th edition of the

same title)."



"Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We

realize we know only a little. God will

constantly disclose more to you and to us.

Ask Him in your morning meditation what you

can do each day for the man who is still sick.

The answers will come, if your own house is in

order. But obviously you cannot transmit

something you haven't got. See to it that your

relationship with Him is right, and great

events will come to pass for you and countless

others. This is the Great Fact for us."



"Abandon yourself to God as you understand

God. Admit your faults to Him and to your

fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past.

Give freely of what you find and join us. We

shall be with you in the Fellowship of the

Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us

as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."



"May God bless you and keep you - until then."



Sincerely,



Bob M., Scott B., Terry H., Carl J., Bob B.,

Jenny M., Doug B., Barbara P., Ken P., Roger B.,

Bill B., Seth P., Luke J., and the late Herb K.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



FROM THE MODERATOR:



We have posted this because the long series of

attempts by AA World Services in New York City

to keep alcoholics in many other parts of the

world from reading material from the first

edition of the Big Book (even though it is no

longer under copyright in the U.S.) unless it

has been printed by AAWS or reproduced under

direct license from them, is a part of AA

history.



You can go back through our past messages

and read full historical accounts of all of

the earlier disputes over this and similar

issues involving AAWS.



But please remember one of the cardinal

guidelines set up by our group's founder,

Nancy Olson: "This is not an AA chat group,"

by which she meant that we had to stick with

questions about the historical facts, and

could not get involved in disputes over

matters of opinion and interpretation.



So no matter how strongly you feel on either

side of this issue -- whether you regard

the people at AAWS as the Children of

Darkness or the Children of Light -- please

do not send messages to the AAHistoryLovers

simply swearing at AAWS or defending them as

the true angels of righteousness and probity.



On the other hand, if there are major factual

errors in what the messages from Just For Today

and its supporters have reported, or other

historical facts that have been omitted from

the story, those are fair game for the

aa-HISTORY-lovers.



I know that lots of people feel VERY strongly

on this issue, but please, to preserve the

basic character of the AAHistoryLovers as

a venue to check on the basic historical

facts of AA history in a reasonably calm

and objective format, send these comments to

some other better suited AA web group.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5457 Russ Stewart
RE: Henry Ford remark on page 124 of the Big Book Henry Ford remark on page 124 of the Big Book 12/29/2008 10:16:00 PM


The quote from THE FAMILY AFTERWARD, pg. 124:



"Henry Ford once made a wise remark to the

effect that experience is the thing of supreme

value is life. That is true only if one is

willing to turn the past to good account. We

grow by our willingness to face and rectify

errors and convert them into assets. The

alcoholic's past thus becomes the principal

asset of the family and frequently it is

almost the only one!"



I believe the quote the Big Book authors were

referring to was:



"Life is a series of experiences, each one of

which makes us bigger, even though sometimes

it is hard to realize this. For the world was

built to develop character, and we must learn

that the setbacks and grieves which we endure

help us in our marching onward."



But I do not know when he said it or who he

was saying it to.



However, I did find this on Wikipedia:



In 1923, Ford's pastor, and head of the Ford

Sociology Department, the Episcopal minister

Samuel S. Marquis, claimed that Ford believed,

or "once believed" in reincarnation. Though

it is unclear whether or how long Ford kept

such a belief, the San Francisco Examiner from

August 26, 1928, published a quote which

described Ford's beliefs:



- - - -



I adopted the theory of Reincarnation when I

was twenty six. Religion offered nothing to

the point. Even work could not give me

complete satisfaction. Work is futile if we

cannot utilise the experience we collect in

one life in the next. When I discovered

Reincarnation it was as if I had found a

universal plan I realised that there was a

chance to work out my ideas. Time was no

longer limited. I was no longer a slave to

the hands of the clock. Genius is experience.

Some seem to think that it is a gift or talent,

but it is the fruit of long experience in many

lives. Some are older souls than others, and

so they know more. The discovery of Reincarnation

put my mind at ease. If you preserve a record

of this conversation, write it so that it puts

men's minds at ease. I would like to communicate

to others the calmness that the long view of

life gives to us.



- - - -



My new question now is, did Bill W. believe in

reincarnation??



______________________________



From the moderator:



For more on Rev. Marquis and the so-called

"Ford Sociology Department," see:



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n10_v39/ai_6323610/pg_4



The Ford Motor Company's experiment in what is sometimes referred to as "welfare

capitalism" was gradually undermined by increasing competition from other

Detroit manufacturers, by growing labor unrest, and by an economy that after the

First World War showed signs of becoming more and more unstable. During the

First World War, the Ford Sociological Department became the base of operations

within the Ford Motor Company for the national spy network associated with the

American Protective League (APL). This was a patriotic "citizen's group" which

had as its object the discovery of IWW and socialist opponents of the war

effort, and the enforcement of the Espionage and Sedition Acts of the federal

government. Ford Sociological Department investigators working for the APL

examined the files on the home lives of Ford workers for evidence of disloyalty,

and used these as a basis for coercing or firing "wrong elements."



In the depression of 1920-21 that came after the war the Ford Motor Co. was

especially hard hit. Total sales of vehicles dropped from 998,029 in 1919 to

530,780 in 1920. In the drastic reorganization that followed, which included

massive layoffs and an enormous speed-up on the production line, the strategy of

the Ford Motor Co. turned from one of "welfare capitalism" to more ruthless

forms of exploitation. Explaining the general atmosphere at this time, one Ford

executive stated, "We were driving them, of course. We were driving them in

those days. . . . Ford was one of the worst shops for driving the men." As part

of this reorganization, the Sociological Department was disbanded in 1921. Yet,

its more repressive function, associated with what Leo Huberman was to call "the

labor spy racket," was retained and given a new home in the notorious Service

Department, which became the headquarters for Ford's struggles against unions

throughout the 1920s and 1930s.


0 -1 0 0
5458 Tom Hickcox
Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage 12/29/2008 8:58:00 PM


Message #430 of this group submitted by its

founder, Nancy Olson, July 20, 2002



http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/430



gives Bill Wilson's Guidelines for stories in

the 2d edition of the Big Book:



"Since the audience for the book [Big Book]

is likely to be newcomers, anything from the

point of view of content or style that might

offend or alienate those who are not familiar

with the program should be carefully elim-

inated . . . Profanity, even when mild,

rarely contributes as much as it detracts.

It should be avoided."



Tommy H in Baton Rouge



- - - -



Message 5450 from <hjfree@fuse.net>

(hjfree at fuse.net) asked:



>I have seen a letter or comment attributed

>to Bill Wilson regarding abusive and vulgar

>lanquage not being appropriate at meetings.

>

>Clues where to look?


0 -1 0 0
5459 John Lee
Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage 12/30/2008 10:39:00 AM


The comment on bad language is found in a

standard form letter sent to Groups by GSO

since the 1950s or 1960s. I think the letter

is still being used. It basically says that

"Groups that encourage the practice of the

12 Steps find that their members grow in all

areas. That is our experience. Thank you very

much."

 

Groups have been trying for decades to get

New York GSO to act as a super-referee for

Group disputes. GSO won't be lured into that

duty, mindful that the Groups are autonomous.



The latest form of the form letter doesn't

mention Bill W., but the original might have

been signed by Bill. Some of the Intergroups

with extensive archives would have the original

version of the letter, and its inception date.



john lee

pittsburgh


0 -1 0 0
5460 James Flynn
Re: Skeletons in the closet Skeletons in the closet 12/30/2008 8:44:00 PM


Interesting wording, could it be that the 

"few skeletons" phrase was deliberately chosen

because in some instances we are advised to

make an indirect rather than direct amends? 



That is what I took from it.

 

Sincerely, Jim F. 



- - - -



Step 9. "Made direct amends to such people

wherever possible, EXCEPT WHEN TO DO SO WOULD

INJURE THEM OR OTHERS."



- - - -



On Mon, 12/29/08, stuboymooreman81

<stuboymooreman81@yahoo.com> wrote:



I was curious as to why on p. 125 in the Big Book,

in the chapter on "The Family Afterward," it

says we keep FEW skeletons as opposed to NO

skeletons in the closet.


0 -1 0 0
5461 Bob Schultz
Re: Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson and John Carney Signatures on Big Book: Howard M. Wilson and John Carney 1/1/2009 6:18:00 PM


John (Jack) Carney was a dentist and I saw

him at an IDAA gathering in Morristown, New

Jersey back in the 70's ....Very entertaining

fellow.



bob (bsdds)



(for whatever that is worth category also)


0 -1 0 0
5462 aalogsdon@aol.com
Re: Photographs of Richard Peabody or Courtenay Baylor? Photographs of Richard Peabody or Courtenay Baylor? 12/31/2008 5:58:00 AM


The AMERICAN magazine for September 1931 has

on page 22, a picture of Richard Peabody that

will reproduce into a nice larger picture.



I have a copy of this magazine, will copy

if you need.



Email me at:



<aalogsdon@aol.com> (aalogsdon at aol.com)


0 -1 0 0
5463 James Flynn
Re: A group may request that only home group members vote A group may request that only home group members vote 12/30/2008 8:52:00 PM


Tradition Three: Long Form



“Our membership ought to in-

clude all who suffer from alco-

holism. Hence we may refuse

none who wish to recover. Nor

ought A.A. membership ever

depend upon money or confor-

mity. Any two or three alcohol-

ics gathered together for sobri-

ety may call themselves an A.A.

group, provided that, as a

group, they have no other af-

filiation.”

 

The Third Tradition is a sweeping state-

ment indeed; it takes in a lot of terri-

tory. Some people might think it too

idealistic to be practical. It tells every

alcoholic in the world that he may be-

come, and remain, a member of Alco-

holics Anonymous so long as he says

so.

 

In short, Alcoholics Anonymous has

no membership rule . . . .

 

If he is anything, the sick alcoholic is

a rebellious nonconformist . . . . If we

raise obstacles, he might stay away and

perish. He might be denied his price-

less opportunity.



So when he asks, “Are there any con-

ditions?” we joyfully reply, “No, not a

one.”



. . . . Our membership Tradition does

contain, however, one vitally important

qualification. That qualification re-

lates to the use of our name, Alcohol-

ics Anonymous. We believe that any

two or three alcoholics gathered to-

gether for sobriety may call them-

selves an AA group provided that, as a

group, they have no other affiliation.

 

Here our purpose is clear and un-

equivocal. For obvious reasons we

wish the name Alcoholics Anonymous

to be used only in connection with

straight AA activities. One can think

of no AA member who would like, for

example, to be designated by reli-

gious denominations. We cannot

lend the AA name, even indirectly, to

other activities, however worthy. If we

do so we shall become hopelessly

compromised and divided.



Reprinted from The Language of the Heart

© 1988 The AA Grapevine, Inc.



Bill W. on the Third Tradition

February, 1948



- - - -



From Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana):



On the other side, see Message 5426, which

appeared two weeks ago, and qualifies

Tradition Three by distinguishing between

(a) calling myself an AA member and (b) being

given voting rights in a particular AA group's

business meeting.



(a) I can choose any AA group I want as my

"home group" according to Tradition Three, but

(b) I can have only one such home group at a

time.



http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5426



refers to the conference pamphlet on "The A.A.

Group," which can be read online at:



http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/p-16_theaagroup.pdf



The conference pamphlet on "The A.A. Group"

says that each AA member gets one and only

one vote, which is ideally done within that

member's home group, and that a "group may

request that only home group members

participate or vote" in their business

meetings.



pages 13-14



The A.A. Home Group



Traditionally, most A.A. members through the years

have found it important to belong to one group which

they call their "Home Group." This is the group where

they accept service responsibilities and try to sustain

friendships. And although all A.A. members are

usually welcome at all groups and feel at home at any

of these meetings, the concept of the "Home Group"

has still remained the strongest bond between the A.A.

member and the Fellowship.



With membership comes the right to vote upon

issues that might affect the group and might also

affect A.A. as a whole—a process that forms the very

cornerstone of A.A.’s service structure. As with all

group-conscience matters, each A.A. member has one

vote; and this, ideally, is voiced through the

home group.



Over the years, the very essence of A.A. strength

has remained with our home group, which, for many

members, becomes our extended family. Once isolated

by our drinking, we find in the home group a solid,

continuing support system, friends and, very often, a

sponsor. We also learn firsthand, through the group’s

workings, how to place "principles before

personalities" in the interest of carrying the A.A.

message.



Talking about her own group, a member says:

"Part of my commitment is to show up at my homegroup

meetings, greet newcomers at the door, and be

available to them—not only for them but for me. My

fellow group members are the people who know me,

listen to me, and steer me straight when I am off in left

field. They give me their experience, strength and A.A.

love, enabling me to ‘pass it on’ to the alcoholic who

still suffers."



page 28



A.A. Business Meetings



In most groups, the chairperson or another officer

calls the business meeting, which ordinarily is held on

a monthly or quarterly basis.



While some groups may occasionally permit

nonmembers to attend, the group may request that

only home group members participate or vote.

 


0 -1 0 0
5464 Russ Stewart
RE: prayer request for Ray G. prayer request for Ray G. 12/29/2008 10:25:00 PM


Has anyone heard how The Ardmore Archivist

is doing?



I have been blessed to have spent time with

Ray as my own personal tour guide on more

than 2 occasions in Akron. He also came with

me to Chagrin Falls, Ohio where my father is

buried and stood by me and supported me as I

made a very tearful graveside amends.



May God bless him and my prayers are with him

and his wife Ginny. Two of the greatest AA

blessings I have ever met...



One of my more favorite moments with Ray were

at Dr. Bob's grave. As he lowered himself to

his knees next to the headstone, with tears

streaming down his cheeks, Ray said, "I know

were not supposed to have heroes in AA, but

Dr. Bob was mine. He was a true man of Christ."



_____



Mitchell K.



Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:42 PM



To: AA History Lovers; Mel Barger; Glenn

Chesnut; Matt Dingle; Ernest Kurtz; Bill Lash;

Jared Lobdell; Shakey Mike G.; Al Welch



Just got an e-mail message that Ray G. is

going in for surgery tomorrow (Wednesday) in

Florida. Please keep Ray in your thoughts

and prayers for a speedy recovery if that be

God's will.



Mitchell


0 -1 0 0
5465 jax760
Douglas D. previously unkown pioneer of AA? Douglas D. previously unkown pioneer of AA? 12/31/2008 12:21:00 PM


Douglas D.



(1895 – 1969)



Douglas joined the growing band of recovering

drunks at the beginning of 1937. The survey of

the New Jersey Group of A.A. taken on January 1,

1940 lists Douglas as having been a member for

three years. The survey also indicates that

he has had several slips but is making some

progress.



It is likely that Douglas would have been

included when Bill and Dr. Bob counted up the

first forty sober in the fall of 1937.



Interestingly enough we can trace Douglas's

early path and find several instances where it

might have crossed with Bill Wilson's. Douglas,

like Bill attended the officer's training camp

in Plattsburg, New York in 1917. Like Bill

he was an officer (Captain) in an artillery

unit in WWI. Douglas was assigned to the 305th

Field Artillery and was wounded in France.



During the time that Douglas was in A.A. he

was living in Plainfield, New Jersey and is

listed as an active member of the New Jersey

Group. Douglas would have been a part of the

original group that was attending Oxford Group

meetings and the weekly gatherings on Clinton

Street that included Hank Parkhurst, John

(Fitzhugh) Mayo, Myron Williams, William

Ruddell, Florence Rankin and Paul Kellogg.



Douglas D. is signature # 32 in the 1st Big

Book ever sold, signed by all the early

pioneers, and now housed in the archives at

the General Service Office in New York.



Not much more is known about Douglas at the

present. He apparently had a successful career

as a securities analyst (another common point

with Bill). Douglas' career was with Merrill

Lynch. His success here may or may not be

indicitive of long-term sobriety.



Douglas died November 14, 1969 and the

following obituary appeared in the New York

Times on November 15, 1969.

______________________________



Princeton, N.J., Nov. 14 –



Douglas D...., a retired securities analyst f

or Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith, died

in Princeton Hospital today of a heart attack.

He was 74 years old and lived at 62 Battle Road

here.



Mr. D.... was graduated from Princeton Uni-

versity in 1917 and served as a captain of

artillery in World War I. He joined Merrill

Lynch in 1941 and retired in 1960;



He leaves his wife, the former Eleanor M.;

a son, Douglas Jr., a stepson, Allan F., and

Mrs. Blaikie W., and seven grandchildren.

______________________________





John B.

The Big Book Study Group

of South Orange, New Jersey


0 -1 0 0
5466 Gary Becktell
Re: Just For Today made to stop emails by AA World Services Just For Today made to stop emails by AA World Services 1/2/2009 3:51:00 PM


The original mail from JFT on this issue went

out on November 30, 2008. It is copied in its

entirety below. Their attempts to satisfy the

AAWS requirements were not enough so they sent

out their final mail (posted on AAHL by Dudley

D) on 12/30/08.

-- G



- - - -



Sunday November 30, 2008

Subject: Changes to JFT! email service.



The "Just For Today!" daily email service has

been available five days each week since

September 1995. To date, volunteers have sent

out over 31 million emails to subscribers like

you located all over the world.



Unexpectedly, we were given notice on Wednesday

by AA World Services, Inc. that we must stop

using AAWS-copyrighted material, effective

today. Therefore, we will change the format of

the daily emails in the following ways:



Three days a week you'll receive excerpts

from the first 164 pages of the first edition

big book now in the public domain.



Two days a week you will receive an item of AA

related history or trivia that we think you

will find interesting.



Although we would prefer not to lose the oppor-

tunity to be of maximum service to any of our

current subscribers, if you find that this new

format is not useful in your program of recov-

ery, you can opt out following the instructions

at the bottom of this email or any of the daily

messages.



If you agree that this new trial format sounds

interesting and potentially helpful, you need

do nothing but sit back and enjoy the service

that has been provided, uninterrupted, for the

last 691 weeks.



Thank you for letting us be of service to you

... and, as always, JFT! remains absolutely

100% free of charge and without advertising.



Yours in Fellowship,



"Just for Today" volunteers Bob B, Bob M,

Carl J, Jenny MM, Scott B, Terry H, and

Doug B.



***********************************************

The AAHISTORY.COM webpage is at:

http://www.aahistory.com/

http://www.aahistory.com/jft.html

c/o Doug B. (Riverside, California)

***********************************************



Original Message from: DudleyDobinson@aol.com

To: undisclosed-recipients:

Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:14 PM

Subject: Just For Today made to stop emails

by AA World Services





From Dudley Dobinson, a recovered member of

AA in Ireland:



http://www.aahistory.com/ has a notice that

their Just For Today emails have had to be

stopped. As they announce it on their webpage:



http://www.aahistory.com/jft.html



Dear "Just For Today!" members,



As of December 31, 2008 we find ourselves at

the end of an unplanned transition. Our last

email has been sent, dear readers, until we

can find some suitable material to pass on to

you that can be emailed around the globe

without restrictions.



It's been sheer joy being of service to you

for these last 4,850 days. (One at a time.)



- - - -



An explanation is given in an email they have

sent around to various people:



"AA World Services has asked us to cease and

desist sending AA materials outside the US,

in violation of international copyright

agreements. It?s virtually impossible to

police who is in the US and who isn?t, so

we?re ceasing publication rather than risk

legal action by AAWS."



"Our last posting comes from the first edition

of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, printed in

1939 by Works Publishing Company, pages 178-179

(currently page 164 in the 4th edition of the

same title)."



"Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We

realize we know only a little. God will

constantly disclose more to you and to us.

Ask Him in your morning meditation what you

can do each day for the man who is still sick.

The answers will come, if your own house is in

order. But obviously you cannot transmit

something you haven't got. See to it that your

relationship with Him is right, and great

events will come to pass for you and countless

others. This is the Great Fact for us."



"Abandon yourself to God as you understand

God. Admit your faults to Him and to your

fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past.

Give freely of what you find and join us. We

shall be with you in the Fellowship of the

Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us

as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."



"May God bless you and keep you - until then."



Sincerely,



Bob M., Scott B., Terry H., Carl J., Bob B.,

Jenny M., Doug B., Barbara P., Ken P., Roger B.,

Bill B., Seth P., Luke J., and the late Herb K.


0 -1 0 0
5467 stevec012000
Interviewing oldtimers Interviewing oldtimers 1/3/2009 9:00:00 AM


Greetings all,



Any suggested formats or methods for inter-

viewing oldtimers in your area? Just want to

see if anyone has expanded upon what is

already circulated by AAWS.



New Archivist


0 -1 0 0
5468 Glenn Chesnut
Hank P bio Hank P bio 1/5/2009 2:47:00 PM


From "John Barton" <jax760@yahoo.com>

(jax760 at yahoo.com)



Henry G. Parkhurst

"The Unbeliever"

(1895 – 1954)



Henry Giffen Parkhurst was born March 13, 1895

in Marion, Iowa. He is considered to be A.A.

#2 in the New York contingent of Alcoholics

Anonymous and was Bill's first "sponsee." Henry

(Hank) was from Teaneck, New Jersey and could

be considered to be the fifth* member of A.A.



New Jersey A.A can trace its roots to Hank.



Hank had once been the Assistant General Sales

Manager for Standard Oil of New Jersey and had

been fired for his drinking. Bill found him

in September of 1935 in Towns Hospital and

offered him the solution that had worked for

him, Doctor Bob and Bill Dotson. Hank, who had

been treated numerous times previously at

Towns and was an avowed atheist, reluctantly

accepted the "spiritual" solution. His story,

"The Unbeliever" was published in the 1st

edition of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous.



Hank is first mentioned in "The Doctor's

Opinion" on page xxix of the Big Book. Dr.

Silkworth describes his case in detail:



"He has lost everything worthwhile in life and

was only living, one might say, to drink. He

frankly admitted and believed that for him

there was no hope. Following the elimination

of alcohol, there was found to be no permanent

brain injury. He accepted the plan outlined in

this book. One year later he called to see me,

and I experienced a very strange sensation. I

knew the man by name, and partly recognized

his features, but there all resemblance ended.

From a trembling, despairing, nervous wreck,

had emerged a man brimming over with self-

reliance and contentment. I talked with him

for some time, but was notable to bring myself

to feel that I had known him before. To me he

was a stranger, and so he left me. A long time

has passed with no return to alcohol."



Hank is again mentioned in the chapter "A

Vision for You" on page 163 as the ". . .

A.A. member living in a large community." This

refers to Hank's home on N. Fullerton Street

in Upper Montclair where he was living in 1939

when the big book was first published.



Hank has been described as a red haired, tall,

broad-shouldered former athlete with a

salesman's drive and enthusiasm. Hank was a

hard-driving promoter who was once described

as "having an idea a minute." He and his wife

Kathleen had two sons, Henry and Robert (Hank

Jr., and Bob.)



Hank and his wife Kathleen began attending the

meetings on Tuesday nights that Bill and Lois

held at their Brooklyn home at 182 Clinton

Street. These meetings which began in the fall

of 1935 would continue until April of 1939.

Hank also attended Oxford Group meetings with

Bill and another New York recruit named John

Fitzhugh Mayo.



One A.A. story has Hank in early recovery one

night with Bill and Fitz driving down Park

Avenue in Hank's convertible. Hank suddenly

stood straight up, grasping the steering wheel

in both hands, with the wind beating against

him, yelling, "God! God almighty, booze was

never this good."



Hank had an office at 9-11 Hill Street in

Newark, which later moved to 17 William

Street. The office was "the headquarters for

a rapidly failing business," according to

Bill.  The business was Honor Dealers, which

Hank had conceived, according to one source,

as a way of getting back at Standard Oil; the

company that had fired him for his drinking.

His business plan was to provide selected

gasoline stations with the opportunity to buy

gasoline, oil, and automobile parts on a

cooperative basis. Bill Wilson was hired to

be a salesman for the company and was later

joined by Jimmy Burwell; another pioneer of A.A.



Ruth Hock was hired as the secretary of Honor

Dealers and would later become the A.A.

Foundation's first national secretary.  Ruth

remembered very little gasoline business being

conducted there. A lot of people dropped in to

discuss their drinking problems, and on more

than one occasion she observed Bill and Hank

kneeling in prayer by the side of Hank's desk

with one of these visitors, an Oxford Group

custom when seeking God's guidance. It was

here in the offices of Honor Dealers that the

book Alcoholics Anonymous was to be written.



In 1937, on February 13th the "Alcoholic

Squadron" of the New York Oxford Group held

a meeting in New Jersey at Hank Parkhurst's

Teaneck home on Wyndham Road. It was the first

time the group of drunks met in New Jersey to

conduct an "alcoholic style" Oxford Group

meeting. The purpose of this meeting was to

introduce William Ruddell (A Business Man's

Recovery) of Hackettstown to the fledgling

fellowship.



March of 1938 marked the beginning of the

writing of the Big Book at Hank's office. The

project needed funding so Hank wrote up a

prospectus for "The 100 Men Corporation." They

offered 600 shares for sale at $25 par value.

Hank went down to a stationary store, bought

blank stock certificates, typed in his full

name, followed by the title "President." The

name of the publishing company was "Works

Publishing Co.," but the corporation was not

registered until several years later. Hank and

Bill were each to keep 200 shares for their

work on the book, the balance of the 200 shares

would be sold for $25 per share. This would

raise the $5,000 needed to publish the book.



Although Bill was the primary author of the

book, Hank is credited with "writing" Chapter

10, To Employers. Without Hank and his hard

driving, raising money, promoting and keeping

Bill on task, the book may never have been

written.



On April 26, 1939 Bill and Lois were evicted

from their home at 182 Clinton Street in

Brooklyn. They moved in with Hank and Kathleen

Parkhurst who were now living in Upper

Montclair, New Jersey.



On May 14, 1939, a Sunday afternoon, the very

first meeting of what was to become the New

Jersey Group of Alcoholics Anonymous took place

in the home of Hank and Kathleen in Montclair.



Meetings that had been formerly held in

Brooklyn were held in New Jersey for the

next 5 or 6 weeks. The meetings began at

4:00 PM and went most of the night. They

rotated speakers for the first portion

according to Jim Burwell who was also living

at Hank and Kathleen's home as well at that

time.



In the early summer of 1939 there was a falling

out between Bill and Hank. Hank wanted to leave

his wife and marry Ruth Hock, the secretary

from Honor Dealers. She refused his proposal

and Hank felt that Bill had interfered. In

late June Hank and Kathleen would split up.

Hank moved to East Orange, Bill and Lois left

to stay at the Bungalow owned by Horace

Chrystal (a New York member) in Green Pond,

New Jersey.



In early September, Hank Parkhurst had returned

to drinking. Bill's first sponsee, the great

promoter of the Big Book and the founder of

A.A. in New Jersey would never again enjoy

long term sobriety. Hank would nurse resentment

against Bill for the rest of his life and cause

great division within the A.A. ranks in the

months to come.



In March of 1940 Bill and Ruth moved the

office of the Alcoholic Foundation to Vesey

Street in Manhattan. Not long after, Hank

showed up dirty, drunk and in a bad way. He

complained that the furniture in the office

was still his and Bill offered him $200 for

the furniture provided he signed over his 200

shares of Works Publishing Co. to the

Alcoholic Foundation. Hank in desperation

complied.



Hank had periods of sobriety over the next 14

years despite periodic episodes of drinking.

At one point he married the sister of Clarence

Snyder's wife Dorothy and had Clarence working

for him as a salesman for a company called

Henry Giffen, Fine Porcelains.



Hank's third marriage was to a Houston oil

heiress. She reportedly was the love of his

life. She died leaving Hank an inheritance

which he later used to remarry Kathleen and

purchase a chicken farm in Pennington, New

Jersey.



The chicken coup caught fire and was destroyed

in January 1954. The story was reported in the

Pennington Post, which also carried Hank's

obituary on the very same day.



Hank died January 18, 1954, at Mercer Hospital

in Pennington, New Jersey. Lois Wilson said

his death was due to drinking. Others claimed

it was pills. Some thought it was both. His

obituary says only that he died after a lengthy

illness.



Despite Hank's difficulties, A.A. owes Henry G.

Parkhurst its thanks and gratitude. Without

Hank, the Big Book and A.A.'s early history

might be remarkably different from what we

have today. A.A. in New Jersey and its history

are the direct result of Hank Parkhurst's

involvement in A.A. during its "flying blind"

period.



John B.

The Big Book Study Group of

South Orange, New Jersey



- - - -



*Hank being the "fifth" member, in Hank's 1st

edition story he says: "Told him it sounded

like self hypnotism to me and he said what of

it . . .  didn't care if it was yogi-ism,

self-hypnotism, or anything else . . . four

of them were well."



["Four of them well" likely refers to

Bill, Dr. Bob, Eddie Reilly, and Bill

Dotson. Eddie did not remain sober or stay

a member for long, but he did achieve

sobriety in 1949.]



- - - -



The following sources are gratefully

acknowledged:



Biographies separately published by both

Mike O and Nancy O



A History of The Big Book - Alcoholics

Anonymous, Written by Donald B.



Postings of AA History Lovers, yahoo.com



A Narrative Timeline of AA History 2007

– Arthur S.



Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age – AAWS



Alcoholics Anonymous 1st ed.



Alcoholics Anonymous 3rd ed.



Pass it On – AAWS



Not God - Kurtz

 


0 -1 0 0
5469 Fred
Re: prayer request for Ray G. prayer request for Ray G. 1/3/2009 11:46:00 PM


Russ and Concerned friends,



After notification by Mitchell K. in his

post about Ray, my wife spoke to Ginny that

day (12/16/08). Ray was to have some growths

removed that had returned from his previous

medical condition. Ginny thanked us for calling

and said Ray was doing great and would be

back in OHIO for The Lake Milton Emotional

Sobriety weekend held in early February.



The prayer chain that was continued for

Ray and Ginny helped see them BOTH through,

and the Grace of God blesses them and all

they touch everyday.



Gratefully Yours,

Fred from Ohio



- - - -



From: "Maria Hoffman" <jhoffma6@tampabay.rr.com>

(jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com)



Yes, Ray is doing great. The surgery was

successful and the recovery is going well.



Now, if we could just get him to take it easy

for a while.



He was Home from the hospital on Saturday,

entertained Christmas guests Thursday and at

2 meetings the Monday following!



He thanks everyone for so many cards and

calls.



Maria Hoffman - Largo Florida



- - - -



Original message #5464 from "Russ Stewart"

<russ1022@ptd.net> (russ1022 at ptd.net)



Has anyone heard how The Ardmore Archivist

is doing?



I have been blessed to have spent time with

Ray as my own personal tour guide on more

than 2 occasions in Akron. He also came with

me to Chagrin Falls, Ohio where my father is

buried and stood by me and supported me as I

made a very tearful graveside amends.



May God bless him and my prayers are with him

and his wife Ginny. Two of the greatest AA

blessings I have ever met...



One of my more favorite moments with Ray were

at Dr. Bob's grave. As he lowered himself to

his knees next to the headstone, with tears

streaming down his cheeks, Ray said, "I know

were not supposed to have heroes in AA, but

Dr. Bob was mine. He was a true man of Christ."



_____



Mitchell K.



Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:42 PM



To: AA History Lovers; Mel Barger; Glenn

Chesnut; Matt Dingle; Ernest Kurtz; Bill Lash;

Jared Lobdell; Shakey Mike G.; Al Welch



Just got an e-mail message that Ray G. is

going in for surgery tomorrow (Wednesday) in

Florida. Please keep Ray in your thoughts

and prayers for a speedy recovery if that be

God's will.



Mitchell


0 -1 0 0
5470 allan_gengler
Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage 1/7/2009 5:45:00 PM


This statement by Bill Wilson can be found on

page 3 of "Experience, Strength & Hope," the

collection of stories from the first three

editions of the Big Book:



> "Since the audience for the book [Big Book]

> is likely to be newcomers, anything from the

> point of view of content or style that might

> offend or alienate those who are not familiar

> with the program should be carefully elim-

> inated . . . Profanity, even when mild,

> rarely contributes as much as it detracts.

> It should be avoided."



- - - -



> Message 5450 from <hjfree@...>

> (hjfree at fuse.net) asked:

>

> >I have seen a letter or comment attributed

> >to Bill Wilson regarding abusive and vulgar

> >lanquage not being appropriate at meetings.

> >

> >Clues where to look?


0 -1 0 0
5471 Shane
SoCal GSR Preamble SoCal GSR Preamble 1/5/2009 11:33:00 PM


Does anyone know the origin of the

GSR preamble which is read at monthly

District Meetings here in Southern California???

I would appreciate any info you may have.

Thanks.



Shane P.

Archivist, Area 05


0 -1 0 0
5472 lester112985
Other 12 step groups'' use of the 12 steps and 12 traditions Other 12 step groups'' use of the 12 steps and 12 traditions 1/5/2009 8:53:00 PM


Hello group and Happy New Year,



On the title page of the basic text of

Narcotics Anonymous there is a statement

that reads 12 Steps and 12 Traditions

reprinted for adaption by permission of

A.A. World Services, Inc.



Can someone tell me how this permission is

obtained from AA. Was this a conference action?



Where can I find this in print from AA? I have

been asked this question more than once, any

help would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks

Lester Gother

Archivist Area 44


0 -1 0 0
5473 rick tompkins
RE: Interviewing oldtimers Interviewing oldtimers 1/4/2009 9:18:00 AM


Hello New Archivist Steve,



What is "already circulated by AAWS" as the

'Oral History Kit' you will find in the

Archives Workbook.



Online at the Fellowship's website (aa.org),

it collected and gathered many of the questions

archivists have been utilizing for a very long

time.



Originally it was expanded from a few questions

to many questions, back to a few questions

(Workbook 2004) and back to the list available

today.



Of course, one interview question leads to

others! If new ideas come to you please share

them.



And, allow the interviewee as much recollection

time as he or she'd like.



Rick, Illinois


0 -1 0 0
5474 charley.bill
Transcribing oral interviews. Transcribing oral interviews. 1/5/2009 2:56:00 AM


This is especially for Glenn, and anyone else

burdened by lots of interviews to transcribe.



I went to the doctor recently and after his

exam, he pulled out a microphone and dictated

his report into the machine, gave me a copy

and one for my primary care doc.. He was

using Dragon Naturally Speaking 9.5 and it

only made one error!



I ran down to Fry's and bought one of the

Professional edition Dragons and started

reading up on what it can do. I have been

back to Fry's to get a small Sony recording

device.



I think I am now set up to learn how to record

interviews, or transfer tapes to hard disk,

and print the transcript, to have this Dragon

transcribe my entire backlog.



It says it can do it. I wonder if any one has

any ideas for setting this work up, whether

I will need any more equipment, etc. I would

appreciate your help and will keep you posted

on my progress.


0 -1 0 0
5475 Michael F. Margetis
Florence R. and Rollie H. Florence R. and Rollie H. 1/4/2009 4:23:00 PM


FLORENCE RANKIN'S GRAVE:

In the Spring 2007 issue of "Markings" is an

article about the Washington (DC) Intergroup

(WAIA) locating Florence Rankin's grave.



It's a touching story about finding her burial

site in a rundown section of the cemetery

(George Washington Cemetery, Adelphi, Maryland)

and raising funds, privately, to purchase a

headstone. Apparently there was no headstone,

just a marker.



Bob W. and the WAIA archives committee are

doing a fantastic job!



ROLLIE HEMSLEY'S GRAVE:

Not long ago I learned, from reading old

baseball player bios, that Rollie Hemsley of

Cleveland Indians catcher 1940 anonymity break

fame, was buried at the same cemetery. I live

nearby and an AA friend and I visited both

gravesites recently. Quite an experience. If

anyone is interested in photos I'll be happy

to email them.



Contact me at:

<mfmargetis@yahoo.com> (mfmargetis at yahoo.com)



Link to the Markings story, pg 4:

http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_spring07.pdf



Thanks,



Mike Margetis

Brunswick, Maryland



- - - -



From the Markings story:



Florence R. was among the first women to get

sober in A.A., and the only one to write a

story for the first edition of Alcoholics

Anonymous. (Her story, “A Feminine Victory,”

is now found in Experience Strength and Hope

with others from the first three editions of

the Big Book.)



We in the archives committee felt that as a

part of A.A. history she was deserving of some

commemoration, and so decided to locate her

grave. We called the cemetery offices and asked

if they had a grave site for Florence R. Their

search proved negative. We then recalled that

the death certificate was for Florence K. (her

married name) and called the cemetery again

with that name, and that did the trick. They

had such a gravesite recorded April 1943.



Making arrangements with the cemetery offices,

we arrived to continue our search. The

caretaker provided a map and a marker and

told us that they would give us help with

our search. Two cemetery workers arrived with

a shovel and a metal detector and off we went

—- to an unkempt part of the cemetery where

there were no grave stones –- just a lot of

weeds, trees, and leaves. After much pacing

off of distances, the two workers exclaimed,

“Here it is!”



The workers used the shovel to clear the area

so that the metal marker could be seen. We

planted the flag marker and laid down a single

flower.



The cemetery informed us how we could go about

purchasing a gravestone .... at our next

Washington Area Intergroup Association Board

meeting [the] consensus was that ... it was

inappropriate to use A.A. money. [But] when we

announced that private funds would be sought,

we left the meeting with sufficient pledges

to cover the cost of both the stone and its

installation.



- - - -



From Nancy Olson's biographies of the Big Book

authors:



http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm#Florence%20Ranki\

n




A Feminine Victory -- Florence Rankin

New York City.

Original Manuscript, p. 217 in 1st edition



Florence was the first woman to get sober in

A.A., even for a short time. She came to A.A.

in New York in March of 1937. She had several

slips, but was sober over a year when she wrote

her story for the Big Book.



It must have been difficult for Florence being

the only woman. She prayed for inspiration to

tell her story in a manner that would give

other women courage to seek the help that she

had been given.



She was the ex-wife of a man Bill Wilson had

known on Wall Street. She thought the cause

of her drinking would be removed when she and

her husband were divorced. But it was her

ex-husband who took Lois Wilson to visit her

at Bellevue. Bill and Lois got her out of

Bellevue and she stayed in their home for a

time. After she left their home she stayed

with other members of the fellowship.



In part, due to Florence having been sober

more than a year, "One Hundred Men" was

discarded as the name for the Big Book.



She moved to Washington, D.C. and tried to help

Fitz Mayo ("Our Southern Friend"), who after

sobering up in New York started A.A. in

Washington, D.C.



She married an alcoholic she met there, who

unfortunately did not get sober. Eventually

Florence started drinking again and disappeared.

Fitz Mayo found her in the morgue. She had

committed suicide.



Despite her relapse and death from alcoholism,

Florence helped pave the way for the many women

who followed. She was in Washington by the

time Marty Mann ("Women Suffer Too"), the next

woman to arrive in A.A. in New York, entered

the program. Marty only met her once or twice,

but her story in the Big Book no doubt encouraged

Marty.


0 -1 0 0
5476 Karl Kleen
Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. Florence R. and Rollie H. 1/9/2009 12:28:00 PM


Would some member of the group who knows how to

do these things, consider adding Memorials for

Florence Rankin and Rollie Hemsley to the FIND A

GRAVE website?



http://www.findagrave.com/index.html



You could include photos of their gravestones

in their Memorials. That way we could all make

a (virtual) visit to their Memorials and access

any photos posted thereon. (Someone else might

have other photos that they could add?)



Several persons of interest already do have

Find A Grave Memorials.



Karl K.



- - - -



From the moderator: for example, Bill Wilson

and Lois Wilson, where Doug B. posted some

photos.



- - - -



In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"Michael F. Margetis" <mfmargetis@...> wrote:

>

> FLORENCE RANKIN'S GRAVE:

> In the Spring 2007 issue of "Markings" is an

> article about the Washington (DC) Intergroup

> (WAIA) locating Florence Rankin's grave.

>

> It's a touching story about finding her burial

> site in a rundown section of the cemetery

> (George Washington Cemetery, Adelphi, Maryland)

> and raising funds, privately, to purchase a

> headstone. Apparently there was no headstone,

> just a marker.

>

> Bob W. and the WAIA archives committee are

> doing a fantastic job!

>

> ROLLIE HEMSLEY'S GRAVE:

> Not long ago I learned, from reading old

> baseball player bios, that Rollie Hemsley of

> Cleveland Indians catcher 1940 anonymity break

> fame, was buried at the same cemetery. I live

> nearby and an AA friend and I visited both

> gravesites recently. Quite an experience. If

> anyone is interested in photos I'll be happy

> to email them.

>

> Contact me at:

> <mfmargetis@...> (mfmargetis at yahoo.com)

>

> Link to the Markings story, pg 4:

> http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_spring07.pdf

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mike Margetis

> Brunswick, Maryland

>


0 -1 0 0
5477 jenny andrews
Re: Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage Bill Wilson against the use of vulgar lanquage 1/9/2009 4:43:00 AM


Let us remember though that Bill also wrote

somewhere else that visitors to an AA meeting

might be surprised by the salty language that

sometimes occurred.



Unfortunately, I can't find the reference,

having keyed in words like swearing, salty

language, curses, bad language, strong language,

etc., in the Grapevine digital archive. Can

anyone point me in the right direction?



- - - -



To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.comFrom: agengler@wk.netDate: Wed, 7 Jan 2009

22:45:07 +0000Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Bill Wilson against the use of

vulgar lanquage



This statement by Bill Wilson can be found on page 3 of "Experience, Strength &

Hope," the collection of stories from the first threeeditions of the Big Book:



> "Since the audience for the book [Big Book]

> is likely to be newcomers, anything from the

> point of view of content or style that might

> offend or alienate those who are not familiar

> with the program should be carefully elim-

> inated . . . Profanity, even when mild,

> rarely contributes as much as it detracts.

> It should be avoided."



- - - -



> Message 5450 from <hjfree@...> > (hjfree at fuse.net) asked:

>

> >I have seen a letter or comment attributed

> >to Bill Wilson regarding abusive and vulgar

> >lanquage not being appropriate at meetings.

> >

> >Clues where to look?


0 -1 0 0
5478 Mark
Re:Other 12 step groups'' use of the 12 steps and 12 traditions Other 12 step groups'' use of the 12 steps and 12 traditions 1/9/2009 10:36:00 AM


Good morning all,



My understanding on the responsibility of the

offering of permission to reprint AA Conference

Approved literature is that the Trustees and

appointed directors who are responsible for

the organization we know as the AAWS. The

AAWS makes the decisions, on a case by case

basis, as to the use of or reprinting of AA

Conference Approved literature.



I could be wrong, but that is what I have

deduced from the published minutes of the AAWS.

I quote from a portion of the August 2008

AAWS minutes ....



"Reprint Requests - Since the April-May 2008

General Service Conference, the A.A.W.S. Board

has granted permission/did not object to 36

requests to reprint from A.A. literature, and

denied permission (including lack of authority

to grant permission) to 28 requests."



Mark


0 -1 0 0
5479 secondles
Re: Transcribing oral interviews. Transcribing oral interviews. 1/8/2009 5:06:00 PM


I'm using Naturally Speaking to transcribe

some interviews I had during my research trip

to Vermont. You will be surprised (I think)

as to how easily it works, and its accuracy.



One interesting part is that you can intersperse

using your keyboard as often as you like.



Keyboard editing is easy or using commands after

you get aquainted with many of those. Speaking

clearly is the clue when you first set it up.



Have fun !



Les



- - - -



From: "Laurence Holbrook"

<email@LaurenceHolbrook.com>

(email at LaurenceHolbrook.com)



Great tip - thanks - on my way to get a copy -



By the way, a lot of cell phones will store

voice record notes/memos - Instead of 'one

button' for email or contacts, I set one button

to record - Push the button and I can make

notes when I'm driving if I see something

interesting or think of something needing

attention - Dragon Naturally Speaking ought

to be able to transcribe those notes as well -



Larry Holbrook



Email@LaurenceHolbrook.com

(410) 802-3099



- - - -



In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "charley.bill"

<charley_b@...> wrote:

>

> This is especially for Glenn, and anyone else

> burdened by lots of interviews to transcribe.

>

> I went to the doctor recently and after his

> exam, he pulled out a microphone and dictated

> his report into the machine, gave me a copy

> and one for my primary care doc.. He was

> using Dragon Naturally Speaking 9.5 and it

> only made one error!

>

> I ran down to Fry's and bought one of the

> Professional edition Dragons and started

> reading up on what it can do. I have been

> back to Fry's to get a small Sony recording

> device.

>

> I think I am now set up to learn how to record

> interviews, or transfer tapes to hard disk,

> and print the transcript, to have this Dragon

> transcribe my entire backlog.

>

> It says it can do it. I wonder if any one has

> any ideas for setting this work up, whether

> I will need any more equipment, etc. I would

> appreciate your help and will keep you posted

> on my progress.

>


0 -1 0 0
5480 LS31101@aol.com
Re: SoCal GSR Preamble SoCal GSR Preamble 1/8/2009 4:12:00 PM


The GSR preamble appeared in Box 459 Vol. 35

no.4 Aug/Sept 1989.



I don't know if this was the "first" appearance.



Gary S.

Alt Registrar, Area 67



- - - -



In a message dated 1/8/2009 1:42:28 P.M. Central

Standard Time, shane.pena@verizon.net writes:



Does anyone know the origin of the

GSR preamble which is read at monthly

District Meetings here in Southern California??D

I would appreciate any info you may have.

Thanks.



Shane P.

Archivist, Area 05


0 -1 0 0
5481 Jocelyn
Re: SoCal GSR Preamble SoCal GSR Preamble 1/10/2009 5:05:00 PM


Would one of you please post a copy of this

preamble? I am not (to my knowledge) familiar

with it.



I went to the 459 Archives to look this up.

They do not go back that far.

 

Jocelyn

 

- - - -



On Thu, 1/8/09, LS31101@aol.com <LS31101@aol.com> wrote:



From: LS31101@aol.com <LS31101@aol.com>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: SoCal GSR Preamble

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 9:12 PM



The GSR preamble appeared in Box 459 Vol. 35

no.4 Aug/Sept 1989.



I don't know if this was the "first" appearance.



Gary S.

Alt Registrar, Area 67



- - - -



In a message dated 1/8/2009 1:42:28 P.M. Central

Standard Time, shane.pena@verizon. net writes:



Does anyone know the origin of the

GSR preamble which is read at monthly

District Meetings here in Southern California?? D

I would appreciate any info you may have.

Thanks.



Shane P.

Archivist, Area 05


0 -1 0 0
5482 Michael F. Margetis
Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. Florence R. and Rollie H. 1/10/2009 11:54:00 PM


Karl,



Rollie was already on "Find A Grave", I added

a photo that is "pending approval" from the

website. Hopefully that will be viewable soon.



I created one for Florence and submitted a

photo, so that should be viewable now. Remember

when looking up Florence use Kalhoun as her

last name, not Rankin.



- Mike Margetis

Brunswick, Maryland





--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Kleen" <kkleen9@...>

wrote:

>

> Would some member of the group who knows how to

> do these things, consider adding Memorials for

> Florence Rankin and Rollie Hemsley to the FIND A

> GRAVE website?

>

> http://www.findagrave.com/index.html

>

> You could include photos of their gravestones

> in their Memorials. That way we could all make

> a (virtual) visit to their Memorials and access

> any photos posted thereon. (Someone else might

> have other photos that they could add?)

>

> Several persons of interest already do have

> Find A Grave Memorials.

>

> Karl K.

>

> - - - -

>

> From the moderator: for example, Bill Wilson

> and Lois Wilson, where Doug B. posted some

> photos.

>

> - - - -

>

> In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

> "Michael F. Margetis" mfmargetis@ wrote:

> >

> > FLORENCE RANKIN'S GRAVE:

> > In the Spring 2007 issue of "Markings" is an

> > article about the Washington (DC) Intergroup

> > (WAIA) locating Florence Rankin's grave.

> >

> > It's a touching story about finding her burial

> > site in a rundown section of the cemetery

> > (George Washington Cemetery, Adelphi, Maryland)

> > and raising funds, privately, to purchase a

> > headstone. Apparently there was no headstone,

> > just a marker.

> >

> > Bob W. and the WAIA archives committee are

> > doing a fantastic job!

> >

> > ROLLIE HEMSLEY'S GRAVE:

> > Not long ago I learned, from reading old

> > baseball player bios, that Rollie Hemsley of

> > Cleveland Indians catcher 1940 anonymity break

> > fame, was buried at the same cemetery. I live

> > nearby and an AA friend and I visited both

> > gravesites recently. Quite an experience. If

> > anyone is interested in photos I'll be happy

> > to email them.

> >

> > Contact me at:

> > mfmargetis@ (mfmargetis at yahoo.com)

> >

> > Link to the Markings story, pg 4:

> > http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_spring07.pdf

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Mike Margetis

> > Brunswick, Maryland

> >

>


0 -1 0 0
5483 charles Knapp
Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. Florence R. and Rollie H. 1/13/2009 1:35:00 AM


For Rollie Hemsley, search in the famous names

section of Find a Grave for "Ralston Hemsley."



It has been there since 2006.



Charles from California





--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Michael F. Margetis <mfmargetis@yahoo.com> wrote:



From: Michael F. Margetis <mfmargetis@yahoo.com>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Florence R. and Rollie H.

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 8:54 PM



Karl,



Rollie was already on "Find A Grave", I added

a photo that is "pending approval" from the

website. Hopefully that will be viewable soon.



I created one for Florence and submitted a

photo, so that should be viewable now. Remember

when looking up Florence use Kalhoun as her

last name, not Rankin.



- Mike Margetis

Brunswick, Maryland


0 -1 0 0
5484 Karl Kleen
Re: Florence R. and Rollie H. Florence R. and Rollie H. 1/13/2009 2:19:00 PM


Silkworth and Dowling on "Find a Grave"



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"Michael F. Margetis" <mfmargetis@...> wrote:

>

> Karl,

>

> Rollie was already on "Find A Grave", I added

> a photo that is "pending approval" from the

> website. Hopefully that will be viewable soon.

>

> I created one for Florence and submitted a

> photo, so that should be viewable now. Remember

> when looking up Florence use Kalhoun as her

> last name, not Rankin.

>

> - Mike Margetis

> Brunswick, Maryland



Thank you Mike -- your photo of Rollie's

gravestone is indeed viewable now.



Earlier I had found the Find A Grave Memorials

for Bill, Dr. Bob and their wives.



Dr. & Antoinette B Silkworth have Memorials

also at:



http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Silkworth&GScid=99997&GRid\

=11339789&




and



http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSvcid=19285&GRid=11339783&



Fr Edward P. Dowling's Memorial can be found at:



http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSvcid=19285&GRid=16958125&



Thank you for adding the material that you did!



Karl K.


0 -1 0 0
5485 diazeztone
Richard Peabody find a grave Richard Peabody find a grave 1/13/2009 9:57:00 PM


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=13530276



One of the members of this group needs to make

a wiki entry for him. I don't have time. I still

would like to post his photo.



LD Pierce

aabibliography.com


0 -1 0 0
5486 Joseph HerronJr.
Re: SoCal GSR Preamble SoCal GSR Preamble 1/14/2009 1:21:00 AM


THE GSR PREAMBLE

 

"WE ARE THE GENERAL SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES. WE ARE THE LINK IN

THE CHAIN OF COMMUNICATION FOR OUR GROUPS WITH THE GENERAL

SERVICE CONFERENCE AND THE WORLD OF A.A. WE REALIZE THE ULTIMATE

AUTHORITY IN A.A. IS A LOVING GOD AS HE MAY EXPRESS HIMSELF IN OUR

GROUP CONSCIENCE. AS TRUSTED SERVANTS, OUR JOB IS TO BRING

INFORMATION TO OUR GROUPS IN ORDER THAT THEY CAN REACH AN INFORMED

GROUP CONSCIENCE. IN PASSING ALONG THIS GROUP CONSCIENCE, WE

ARE HELPING TO MAINTAIN THE UNITY AND STRENGTH SO VITAL TO OUR

FELLOWSHIP. LET US, THEREFORE, HAVE THE PATIENCE AND TOLERANCE

TO LISTEN WHILE OTHERS SHARE, THE COURAGE TO SPEAK UP WHEN

WE HAVE SOMETHING TO SHARE, AND THE WISDOM TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT

FOR OUR GROUPS AS A WHOLE."

 





--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Jocelyn <prpllady51@yahoo.com> wrote:



From: Jocelyn <prpllady51@yahoo.com>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: SoCal GSR Preamble

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 2:05 PM



Would one of you please post a copy of this

preamble? I am not (to my knowledge) familiar

with it.


0 -1 0 0
5487 Dolores
Re: SoCal GSR Preamble SoCal GSR Preamble 1/15/2009 6:13:00 AM


Dear Joseph, thank you for the GSR preamble.

It is a good reminder that we are trusted

servants. I find at times when younger members

join service and have no sponsor they tend to

present AA as a business and not a fellowship.



I will pass this preamble on for sure.



Thanks, Dolores

CER Continental European Region



- - - -



From: Cindy Miller <cm53@earthlink.net>

(cm53 at earthlink.net)



Why is this called the Southern California

GSR Preamble? It was used here in Philadelphia,

Pennsylvania at a District Meeting as recently

as 10 years ago.



- - - -



Original message from: Joseph Herron Jr.

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:21 AM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: SoCal GSR Preamble





THE GSR PREAMBLE



"WE ARE THE GENERAL SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES. WE ARE THE LINK IN

THE CHAIN OF COMMUNICATION FOR OUR GROUPS WITH THE GENERAL

SERVICE CONFERENCE AND THE WORLD OF A.A. WE REALIZE THE ULTIMATE

AUTHORITY IN A.A. IS A LOVING GOD AS HE MAY EXPRESS HIMSELF IN OUR

GROUP CONSCIENCE. AS TRUSTED SERVANTS, OUR JOB IS TO BRING

INFORMATION TO OUR GROUPS IN ORDER THAT THEY CAN REACH AN INFORMED

GROUP CONSCIENCE. IN PASSING ALONG THIS GROUP CONSCIENCE, WE

ARE HELPING TO MAINTAIN THE UNITY AND STRENGTH SO VITAL TO OUR

FELLOWSHIP. LET US, THEREFORE, HAVE THE PATIENCE AND TOLERANCE

TO LISTEN WHILE OTHERS SHARE, THE COURAGE TO SPEAK UP WHEN

WE HAVE SOMETHING TO SHARE, AND THE WISDOM TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT

FOR OUR GROUPS AS A WHOLE."


0 -1 0 0
5488 charles Knapp
Re: SoCal GSR Preamble SoCal GSR Preamble 1/18/2009 2:24:00 AM


The GSR Preamble

 

    We are the General Service Representatives.

We are the link in the chain of communication

for our groups with the General Service

Conference and the world of A.A.



    We realize the ultimate authority is a

loving God as he may express Himself in our

Group Conscience. As trusted servants, our

job is to bring information to our groups in

order that they can reach an informed group

conscience. In passing along this group

conscience, we are helping to maintain the

unity and strength so vital to our fellowship.



    Let us, therefore, have the patience and

tolerance to listen while others share, the

courage to speak up when we have something to

share, and the wisdom to do what is right for

our group and A.A. as a whole.



 

History:

 

     The GSR Preamble as stated above, got its

start here in Southern California and Area 9

in particular. During the time that Genevieve

L. was the Panel 24 (1974-75) Delegate of

California Mid-Southern Area 9, someone came

up with a Preamble to read at Area meetings

which was quite a strong directive to GSRs

making them the ultimate authority over

Alcoholics Anonymous.  Gene asked Goldene L.,

who was the Area Treasurer at the time, to

come up with something to soften this Preamble.

She did and she came up with the one they are

still using today.  Goldene L. would later go

on and serve as Area 9 Panel 28 (1978-79)

Delegate.

 

     The Central Intergroup Office of the

Desert, Palm Springs, California printed the

G.S.R. Preamble in its May 1988 issue of their

newsletter.  The GSO staff picks up on it and

ran short article and reprinted the preamble

in the August/September 1989 issue of Box 459. 

This preamble is being used in many of the

Areas throughout the United States and Canada

today.

 

(source: Goldene L. interview, March 2, 2004 & Box 459 )

 

Hope this helps

 

charles from california



- - - -



From: Cindy Miller <cm53@earthlink.net>

(cm53 at earthlink.net)



Why is this called the Southern California

GSR Preamble? It was used here in Philadelphia,

Pennsylvania at a District Meeting as recently

as 10 years ago.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


0 -1 0 0
5489 Robert Stonebraker
How AA began in Richmond, Indiana (via Jim Burwell) How AA began in Richmond, Indiana (via Jim Burwell) 1/16/2009 4:26:00 PM


Apologies to those who don't have the good

fortune to live near Richmond, Indiana (the

gateway to sobriety for the entire mid-western

United States!) but this local document

"History of Alcoholics Anonymous in Richmond,

Indiana, and vicinity" has just today become

available for viewing and/or downloading on

our Area 23 Website.



http://www.area23aa.org/a/view/Main/Richmond



This 50-page PDF Document can be downloaded

with one click! But if you would like to

research a certain page - perhaps your home

town of Greenville, Ohio, or perhaps, Muncie,

Indiana, you can simply go to the appropriate

page and print it up.



Much thanks to Mike H., for making this

process possible!



Bob S.



- - - -



From the moderator:



And also see the articles on early A.A. in

other parts of Indiana collected at "How A.A.

Came to Indiana" at:



http://hindsfoot.org/Nhome.html



This article that Bob S. has just posted is

a detailed fifty-page account of the beginnings

of A.A. in Richmond, Indiana and the surround-

ing parts of Indiana and Ohio. The town of

Richmond is on the state line, roughly halfway

between Indianapolis and Dayton, Ohio.



The story began when Bob B., a paint store owner

in Richmond, got sober by visiting a business

associate in Philadelphia, a man named JIM

BURWELL who had gotten sober in 1938 and had

started A.A. in that city.



Jim's story in the Big Book is called "The

Vicious Cycle" (it is on page 219 in the

current 4th edition).



Jim was the early New York A.A. group's first

"self-proclaimed atheist," the one who insisted

that the phrase "as we understood Him" had to

be added to the reference to God in Steps 3

and 11.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5490 Robert Stonebraker
Cebra Graves biography Cebra Graves biography 1/22/2009 1:18:00 AM


I am trying to find a biography, or at least

an obituary, of Cebra Graves. Any help would

be greatly appreciated.



Bob S.


0 -1 0 0
5491 jlobdell54
Re: Cebra Graves biography Cebra Graves biography 1/22/2009 8:37:00 PM


Culture Alcohol and Society Quarterly, Vol. 3,

No. 7 (April-June 2008): 8-16



http://dl.lib.brown.edu/libweb/collections/kirk/casq/



PROGRESS REPORT:

THE MESSENGERS TO EBBY: CEBRA G.



Cebra Quackenbush G. (1898-1979) was from

Bennington, the son of Judge Collins Millard G.

(1872-1954). He attended Williams College

for a year before enlisting in the Army in

World War I, later read law in his father's

office, attended Columbia in NYC in 1924,

acted on Broadway 1924-27, went back to

Vermont, served as State's Attorney in the

Bennington district 1928-1932, then State

Senator 1933-1935. He married five times, the

last time to Lucette Caron Culbert in France,

where he lived from 1954 till his death on

January 1, 1979, at the age of 80. He met

Lucette in the early 1920s through her brother

Claude Caron, whose daughter Leslie (b. 1931)

may be named after Leslie Cornell (I have

written Claude's nephew, Lucette's son,

Frédéric [Ted] Culbert, on this). In one of

his Broadway stints, Cebe G. acted with Elmer

Cornell, a cousin of Shep's and brother of

actress Leslie Cornell. Cebe's son Jack

Y. C. G., from his third marriage, was a year

behind me at Yale (both of us in Saybrook

College) and I've been in touch with him.

Cebe's brother Van Vechten Breese G.

(b. 1906), Brown 1929, still lives in

Bennington. I have been given access to the

transcript of a recording Bill W. made of

Cebra's reminiscences in 1954, so I am using

the proper AA form of reference to Cebra G.]

The name Cebra reputedly goes back in the

Quackenbush (Cebe's mother's) family to

"El Cebra" (true name and surname unknown),

a patriot in the Dutch War for Independence

(1567-1609), who was whipped by the Spaniards

("given stripes") so that he was said to have

looked like a zebra ("Cebra"). The surname

Cebra appears on Long Island before the

American Revolution, and it presumably entered

the Quackenbush family from the Cebra family

then rather than in the days of the House of

Orange-Nassau.



Cebra G.'s first marriage was in 1921 at

St Paul's Episcopal Church in Troy NY to

Carolyn Caldwell of Troy, daughter of James

Henry Caldwell, President of the Troy Trust

Company. She was a 1917 graduate of the

Misses Masters' School at Dobbs Ferry. Cebra

is described as a graduate of the Westminster

School and of Williams College. Recent

research in Vermont has given us the name of

Cebra's second wife Lenore Pettit (b. 1907),

later a member of the Jackson Pollock world.

After her 1933 divorce from Cebe, granted by

Magistrate Collins M. G[-----] she m. Howard

Baer whom she divorced in 1944. I tried to

find a connection with the Margaret Pettit

who is listed as the wife of Cebe's eventual

brother-in-law Claude Caron and mother of

Leslie Caron (b. 1931), but it is apparently

a different family. On Lenore Pettit later

on, here is an excerpt from the transcript

of Tape 2 of an Interview January 14, 1976,

with Matsumi (Mike) Kanemitsu (1922-1992) who

eventually married Lenore Pettit (transcript

in the Los Angeles Art Community Group Project,

Smithsonian, Washington DC):



"In any case, after Willett Street studio

I move to Front Street. Front Street is right

off the Fulton Fish Market, between [it and]

Wall Street. And I rent the second-floor

studio. This lady rent the whole top floor of

the building, and I get to know her. We

started going together, but we lived in the

same building. Her name was Lenore Pettit, and

she was a fashion model, and she just get

divorced to the senator from Vermont; I forgot

his name [State Senator Cebra Q. G.]. Then she

married to commercial artist named Howard Baer,

and that end in divorce. So we started going

together, and she have a house in East Hampton.

And so, naturally, I go with her and help her

to fix the house, carpentry and all this. And

those days, East Hampton is artists move in,

and the first person I met is our neighbor,

Leo Castelli; later he open a gallery. Leo

was there, and Bob Motherwell – he bought a

place – and they were our neighbors. And across

the pond, called Georgeca-Pond, is Alphonso

Ossorio. And in those day, I remember Franz

Kline and de Kooning rent house at

Bridgehampton, so I get to see them very

often in East Hampton in the summertime. Then

de Kooning and Franz and Jackson Pollock, I

naturally see often there in the summertime.

And then [they were] closely associated with

Harold Rosenberg, art critic, and Clement

Greenberg."



Cebe's third marriage was in 1936 to Mary

Ormsby Sutton of 1170 Fifth Avenue in New York

(residence of her aunt, Edna Sutton) and of

Pittsburgh (residence of her father J. Blair

Sutton). Her mother, Mary Phillips Sutton,

was no longer alive. Mary graduated from the

Fermata School in Aiken, South Carolina, in

1931 and from Sarah Lawrence in 1933. She

was presented to society at a dinner dance at

the Allegheny Country Club in Pittsburgh in

December 1933, by her father and stepmother.

The G.-Sutton wedding was conducted by Justice

of the Peace Leo Mintzer in Harrison NY, with

Mr and Mrs Elwood Kemp of New York City as the

witnesses. Again, Cebra is described as a

graduate of Westminster and Williams. He is

also described as having been a State Senator

in Vermont 1933-35. Mary Ormsby Sutton (G.)

Moore was born July 16, 1915, and died in

Sewickley PA on October 13, 2001. She was

the mother of John (Jack) Yates Cebra G.,

Yale '62, Cebra's son. They were divorced in

the later 1940s.



On August 15, 1950, died in Southampton, Long

Island, New York, the former Barbara Corlies,

Cebe's fourth wife, Barbara Corlies G.,

daughter of the late Arthur and Maude Robinson

Corlies and (fourth) wife of Cebra G. She

was born in 1909/1910 and had previously been

married to Allen Hall. Note that Jack G. has

lived in Easthampton much of his life (and

lives there now). Lenore lived in the

Hamptons. So did Barbara.



Cebra served up to the rank of Lt. Commander

in the U.S.N. in World War II, used his G. I.

Bill to go to Columbia School of General

Studies and then the Columbia Graduate School,

receiving his B.A. and then at least his M.A.

in Classics. From 1946 to 1951 he was an

Instructor in Classical Studies (Humanities)

in Columbia School of General Studies After

his fourth wife died, he reopened his

acquaintance with Lucette Caron (Culbert),

whom he had met in France around 1920-21.

After 1954 he lived the rest of his life in

France, where his son Jack visited him from

time to time. Jack (b. 1940) recalls that

his father lived a while in Pownal on Clermont

Avenue, and even in his fifties, his parents

(who died in 1954 and 1955) would still smell

his breath and wait up for him if he stayed

with them. He thinks his father was drinking

during the brief fourth marriage. When his

father was in this country and Jack was about

13 or 14, Jack asked his father to play "ball"

– to play "catch" – and his father did, even

though he had a hangover. Eventually he had

to lie down, and Jack asked him if it would

help if he placed wet washcloths over his

forehead, which he did. Eventually his father

asked Jack, "What do you think of your old

man?" and Jack answered, "I just think you're

sick, Dad" – and whatever he meant, his father

told him afterward that his reply was a major

step on his father's road to sobriety.



When Jack's parents' marriage (Cebra's third)

was breaking up after World War II, Jack, as

a young boy, tried to mediate between them

whever they had an argument – "I tried to get

them back together" – and when the marriage

failed his mother went back to Pittsburgh,

where she was brought up. His father renewed

an acquaintance he had made in France thirty

years before – he had met Lucette Caron

(Culbert) while fishing in Saumur with his

friend and her brother Claude Caron, for

champagne bottles. I believe, after his

fourth wife died, Cebe went over to France,

looked Lucette up, found she was a widow,

asked her when she would marry him, she said

"Dimanche!" and they went to Mont St Michel.

He came back to the States thereafter, and

then returned to France for the last quarter-

century of his life.



He told Jack that his desire for alcohol

wasn't a thirst, "it was a hunger." When in

France, he went to a nunnery, for their "cure"

– which involved giving him as much wine as

he wanted (up to six bottles a day), to keep

him off "alcohol." It was at this point he

decided he didn't want to die drunk in an

alcoholic ward and put his mind to being sober.

"You see." Jack told me, "he would be a pretty

terrific success at whatever he tried – actor,

attorney, state senator, soldier and sailor,

scholar and college teacher – and then he'd

get bored with it. He could have been a U. S.

Senator if he'd set his mind to it, but he

never did." But he set his mind to being sober,

and after spending time with Bill W. in 1954,

he stayed sober till his death on New Year's

Day 1979. His pictures as an undergraduate

at Williams show a startlingly handsome man.

I have not seen photographs of him later in

life.



A transcript of Bill W.'s conversation with

Cebra G. and his (fifth) wife, Lucette, is

in the Alcoholics Anonymous General Service

Office Archives in New York. By the courtesy

of the Archivist, Amy Filiatreau, a copy of

the transcript was made available to me. I

had previously listened to recordings of

several of Ebby T.'s talks in which he claimed,

unconvincingly to my ear, that Cebra and Shep,

who brought the message to him, were both

former drinking companions. Cebra's own

testimony (in this transcript) says that he

was at least a sometime drinker with Ebby: I

remain unconvinced on Shep. Here is a summary

of the relevant portions of the transcript,

not in direct quotation.



Cebra first saw Rowland Hazard at a party at

Cebra's parents' house in Bennington in the

summer of 1934. Shortly thereafter (perhaps

in July) Cebra and his father had an argument,

with Cebra's father saying something to the

effect of "Bennington is too small for both

of us," whereupon Cebra walked out of his

office, without even locking the door, and

started walking toward Williamstown (Massa-

chusetts). After he reached the next city,

Rowland drove up, presumably by accident,

and asked where he was going. On finding out

that he didn't know, he picked him up and

drove him to the house of Professor Philip

Marshall Brown, apparently an Oxford Group

friend of Rowland's. They talked and the

subject of alcoholism came up – and Rowland

and Phil Brown virtually guaranteed that if

Cebra followed the principles of the Oxford

Group, he wouldn't drink alcoholically. He

became active in the Oxford Group, toned down

his drinking, went down to New York and went

to OG meetings there, and after returning to

what he considered normal drinking, he went

back to Vermont, tried to make amends to his

parents and follow the Oxford Group principles.



After this return to Bennington, he visited

Rowland in Glastonbury, and at the same time

Shep was visiting there. Shep was very active

in the Oxford Group. They were swimming in

Rowland's pool, and talking about carrying

the Oxford Group message. Ebby came into

Cebe's mind – he had played golf (and had

drinks) with Ebby in Manchester – and he

decided they should carry the message to Ebby.

The chronology of Cebe's recollections is not

entirely clear, but it would appear that this

was after Ebby had come up before Cebe's father

in court, and after Cebe and Rowland had gone

to Cebe's father to try to explain the Oxford

Group principles to Cebe's father and to

persuade him not to send Ebby to Brattleboro

(jail). Cebe's father apparently said he'd

make Rowland and Cebe responsible for Ebby

(Rowland was closer in age to Cebe's father

than to Cebe). Cebe recalls that he didn't

know much about alcoholism at this time and he

didn't have the impression that Rowland knew

much about it either.



Shep and Rowland were skeptical about visiting

Ebby (I would guess Rowland wanted to be out

of this), but finally Cebe convinced Shep to

come with him to Ebby's house, where they

found Ebby on the back veranda, surrounded

by bottles, in a filthy suit, holding his head

in his hands. So Cebe walks up and says

something like, "Hi! Ebby – You having fun?" –

to which Ebby responds something like, "Go to

Hell!" Cebe answers to the effect that "You

don't have to live like this anymore." They

take his (only) suit down to Manchester Center,

rout the tailor out (it's Sunday afternoon),

get the suit cleaned, get Ebby cleaned up,

take him to a restaurant, and talk to him about

the Oxford Group. This was (by Cebe's guess)

in August 1934. [Cebe's brother Van recalls

Ebby as a friend of Cebe's, but not Shep,

confirming my impression that when Ebby said

in talks he had drinking experience with Cebra

and Shep he was overstating it.]



A statement by Van G. to Lester Cole, a student

of the Vermont origins of A.A., made in 2007,

has important implications for understanding

what happened when Ebby, that day in 1934, was

released by Van's (and Cebe's) father into

Rowland's custody. The statement was simply

that Collins G. was not a Judge but was sitting

as a Family Court Magistrate. (Van was a lawyer

at that time and may have been an officer of

the court: he was certainly in town and aware

of what was happening with his father and

brother and brother's "friend.") The Family

Court Magistrate sat not in criminal cases but

in determining sanity or insanity for purposes

of incarceration in the State Hospital. If

so, it wasn't the jail at Brattleboro but the

hospital at Brattleboro that Ebby had to fear.

But instead Ebby went down to New York, to

Calvary House (not Calvary Mission, according

to Cebe), went to the Meetings, met the Oxford

Group people, and joined the Oxford Group.

From there Cebra's conversation goes to more

of his own and Bill's experience with the

Oxford Group and the early days of A.A.,

including some mention of Ebby later on.



The story of Rowland's work with Jung (or

Jung's with Rowland) seems to have come from

Cebe to Bill in this conversation. Cebe

recalls Rowland's telling him (during an

afternoon spent with Rowland and Philip

Marshall Brown) that he knew he had been

having trouble with liquor, had tried a lot

of places, and had gone to see Dr. Jung. (Cebe

says he can't remember the year this occurred,

but he thinks it was 1930 or 1931.) The

mention of Dr. Jung intrigued Cebe, because

he had read The Psychology of the Unconscious

(in the Hinkle translation) and thought it a

fascinating book. But, in 1954, Cebe recalled

wondering how Jung could psychoanalyze anyone,

so to speak, from German into English,

especially Jung, with his symbolism, race

consciousness, all that sort of thing, and how

could Jung, no matter how smart he was,

understand the "race-consciousness" of an

Anglo-Saxon born in America?



Rowland told him that after he had been going

to Jung, more or less successfully, for a year

or so, Jung discharged him – and in a month,

he got drunk again, and came back in a state

of panic or despair – and that was when Jung

told him he needed a religious conversion.

At this point, Cebe's chronology becomes

somewhat (or even more) confused, as he is

under the impression that all this had been

relatively recent, perhaps a matter of months

between his leaving Jung and his interaction

with Cebe in Vermont in 1933-34. In any case,

on a drive from South Williamstown to

Pittsfield, Massachusetts, Rowland had taken

his usual bottle along as a companion, and

that, all of a sudden, he had heard a voice

saying to him, "You will never take a drink

again." He took the bottle and threw it into

the bushes, and that was the story Rowland

told Cebe at Philip Marshall Brown's house in

July or August 1934.



At this point in his reminiscence to Bill,

Cebe remarks that he thought Christianity was

all very well – he didn't disbelieve in it –

but Jung was a very considerable person indeed,

and flinging a bottle away was something no

alcoholic was likely to think of with the

monkey on his back. He remembered asking

Rowland about the hangover, and being told

more or less that Rowland could bear it – which

was more than Cebe thought he ever could.

In fact, he tells a story about going to an

Oxford Group meeting and commenting on a young

lady there, to the effect "There's a good

looking doll," and being told that he was

offending against the laws of Purity, and

responding to the effect, "Purity, my eye!

I joined this outfit to get over a hangover."



(On the "good looking doll," we should remember

Cebe was once a Broadway actor, and he was

married five times. He remarked in his

conversation with Bill that he didn't do well

with the rarefied spiritual atmosphere of the

Oxford Group.)



We can see that much of Bill's information on

Rowland may have come from Cebe (unless of

course Cebe's came in a roundabout from Bill).



Three other points emerge from the conversation,

besides what has been noted here and in our

last issue. One is that Cebe joined AA in

New York in 1940. One is that it was Cebe

(not Shep and certainly not Rowland) who knew

Ebby before 1933: Cebe recalls playing golf

with Ebby, and says he had known him for many

years in Manchester. And one is that Cebe

remembered Bill telling him, at Calvary, that

the Oxford Group was fine, one couldn't

complain about its principles, but he (Bill)

didn't think it was the right thing for alco-

holics.



Here is a brief summary of Cebe's account of

his introduction to A.A. in 1940. Cebe reports

that he really knew nothing about A.A. until

1940, when he was hypnotized in an effort to

get over drinking and had promptly gotten

drunk again. He saw a friend of his, an older

woman, whose husband had died from cirrhosis

of the liver and other alcohol-related

problems, at the age of 92. She asked him

what was wrong and he told her about the

failure of hypnotism to cure his drinking.

She asked him if he remembered Morgan R. and

how he used to stumble and fall around? He

said he did. She said Morgan hadn't had a

drink in several years. Cebe went to see

Morgan, who was busy, but gave him the name of

Bert T. He went to see Bert and went to a

meeting that night and saw Ebby there, at the

clubhouse on 24th Street that had just opened

up. He expected to see people from the Bowery,

but that didn't bother him, because he figured

that was where he belonged anyway. He reports

he had no trouble accepting the first step

because he was licked when he got there and

seriously felt he was crazy – so he was happy

to find he was an alcoholic and amazed that

there were people who could do something about

it. (Cebe carried the message to Ebby in 1934;

he came to A.A. in 1940; he did not finally

get sober until 1954.)



In a letter written to me in June 2008, Jack

writes "My father, Cebra Quackenbush G[---],

who was born on August 26, 1898, once told me

that if I wanted to know what his upbringing

had been like, I should read Samuel Butler's

The Way of All Flesh, the satire on Victorian

ways. Being the eldest of Collins Millard and

Florence Quackenbush G[-----]`s four sons,

who lived in Bennington, Vermont, he was, I

suppose, Ernest Pontifex, though the parallel

is by no means exact. As with Ernest, though,

things ended happily for him. His last 28

years were spent with the love of his life,

Lucette Caron, in France, a country that

because of its intellectual bent and broad-

mindedness, he far preferred to America.



"He was classically educated, at the

Westminster preparatory school, and was a

fine teacher, scholar, and linguist, though

he was also a soldier, in France in World War

One, a Naval officer in World War Two, an

actor on Broadway, in the 1920s, and a State's

Attorney and State Senator in Vermont in the

`30s. Concerning his many-sided career, he

told me that once he learned the ropes, he

became bored.



"His `greatest trick' was to have completed,

in just a few years following World War Two,

two years of undergraduate work – he studied

at Williams in 1916, before enlisting, and

spent a year at Columbia in 1924 – and his

Master's and Doctorate requirements, while

teaching Greek, Latin, and the Humanities in

Columbia's Classics Department. Had he had

his druthers, he told me, he would gladly have

been a professional student his entire life.



"He did not make much of his drinking, nor of his work with A.A.,

with me. I only saw him drunk once in my life, when I was twelve, on

a summer visit to Bennington…. I had inveigled him into playing catch

and, nursing a hangover, after a few minutes of this, he had to excuse

himself to lie down. As he lay there, he asked, `What do you think of

your old man?' I put a cold washcloth on his forehead, and I said I

simply thought he was sick. It's probably the best thing I've ever done.

"It was his view, too, that he was sick. I've learned that in going

through some of his papers. There was wine on the table whenever I

visited him and my stepmother in Paris and Urrugne, in the Basque

country, where they had a house. Everyone drank it but he. In fact,

he said he thought that I drank more than he did, day in and day out.

"He was of a religious bent, throughout his life, persuaded, as I

think he was, by St. Thomas Aquinas's logic, and enamored, as he was,

of Latin, from an early age. He was interested in Buddhism, too, but,

in the end, he said that when it came to religious matters, he was `a

Westerner.' His religiosity played a large part in his battle with

alcoholism. He converted to Roman Catholicism while in a clinic at

Dax over the Christmas holidays in 1954. In the end, he said, it was

`the sight of Sister Marie Joseph standing over my bed and smiling

down at me" that had accomplished it.'

"'I feel it impossible for me to describe that smile,' he wrote in an

account he wrote at the time. `It was not the smile of a professional

greeter; it was not one of amusement at the plight into which I had

gotten myself; but it was one of compassion, sweetness, and perhaps,

above all, it was a smile of perfect confidence that I would get well,

and gave me a feeling of hope that I shall not attempt to describe. I

have been to many hospitals and sanitariums to recover from

alcoholism, and, on several occasions, have been treated in a

perfectly kindly fashion, but I am not conscious that I have ever been

received as above….'

"'I am certain that everyone who has been converted towards or away

from any belief or way of life has a strong desire to understand what

has happened to him and to tell others of the great event, to the end

that they, too, may be brought to peace, happiness, and a useful life.

I have read many such accounts and, though it never occurred to me to

doubt the fact of the conversion, I have never been able to see how it

was accomplished: i.e., the one converted seems never to have had

anything to do with his change of heart. At least, so it was in my case.'

"'Not for one minute were all my problems solved, but from Christmas

Day I was convinced that, despite all my sins, (1) I could be saved,

and also (2) all hatreds and resentments vanished in a moment. I wish

to emphasize that, in so far as I was conscious, my will played no

part in either of these feelings. I am certain that the first was

largely inspired by a terrible fear, but I have not felt it before;

and, as for the second, it was as automatic as the love that one

suddenly experiences for a person towards whom one is unconsciously

drawn. I wish to emphasize that I endeavored to strike no bargain

with my Maker: I did not say, feel, or promise, actually on in effect,

"Lord, if you will save me from a living death, I will give up my

dislikes and hatreds." I merely knew that the people whom I felt had

offended me acted as they had because they could not help it, and I no

longer considered them blameable in any way….'

"'Nevertheless, if it can be said that one person converts another,

it was not the logic of Thomas Aquinas, but the smile of Sister Marie

Joseph and my subsequent treatment by my Catholic brothers and sisters

that melted and changed my heart and mind….'

"'If a man who is truly religious is guided by God to say the right

thing to those in need of help – and I firmly believe this – le

Chanoine Gayan could not have struck a more sympathetic chord in me

than he did in his counsel after my confession. He did not give me

one bit of specific advice about avoiding the sins I had confessed,

but spoke to me only of the Grace of God and that I must always

remember I was completely dependent on it. Intellectually, I must

have known this doctrine for years and have even lectured on it, but I

never understood it, as I did when le Chanoine Gayan spoke to me for

two or three minutes on the afternoon of January 1 [1955].'

"He read from the prayer book he received from Sister Marie Joseph

every day. He died at the age of 81 on December 31, 1979, in a

hospital in Bayonne (near Urrugne) as the result of a hole in a lung

that caused him to suffocate. Undoubtedly he would have lived longer

in America. His younger brother, Van, who lives in Bennington, is

102! But he was, he said, ready to get off the merry-go-round. When

I last saw him, he was sitting in bed having some chocolate. `Don't

worry about me – I've got a good thing going,' he said with good cheer.

"While I'm sure Sister Marie Joseph's smile played a big part, I

think he was really saved by Lucette Caron, his fifth wife. Their

story is fascinating. He met her in St. Moritz while fishing for

champagne bottles in the mid-`20s, through the instance of her

brother, Claude, who had admired my father's dexterity. When it came

time to leave Paris – he and his first wife had been footed to a trip

there by her father – he told Lucette that he'd look her up in

twenty-five years. Twenty-five years later – and without a word

having been exchanged between them in that time – he sent her a

telegram, "J'arrive" ["I'm coming"].

"Having lived an interesting life after a brief marriage in the `20s

to another American, she was beguiled, but worried too, on receiving

his telegram. He had been very handsome, yes, but that was

twenty-five years ago. Would he still have his hair, his teeth? She

asked her son, Teddy Culbert, what she should do, and he advised that

she meet the bus at Les Invalides, which she did. My father and she

took up where they left off, and soon were off to Mont St Michel and a

life together.

"Even France Dimanche, generally a scandal magazine, was touched, and

wrote it up. In that article, I think, Lucette was quoted as saying

that while she went out with Frenchmen, she always married Americans.

They were a compelling couple: he, the handsome, worldly intellectual

whose encyclopedic knowledge of history was much admired in France,

and she, the mercurial journalist (Paris-Soir, Paris Match,

Mademoiselle) who had been a Captain in the Resistance, and who was

described once as `one of the five tyrants of the fashion world.'

My father loved it that she was not a reformer, as apparently some of

his American wives had been. With nothing to rebel against, the

decision was up to him. Give it up or die in a crise alcoolique.

When my father told her he would give up drinking if she would return

to the church, Lucette said she would, and off she went to confession

– her first in many, many years. With a smile, he told me she had

said, when the priest asked what she would like to confess, "Well, I

haven't done anything that anyone else hasn't done …"

[Note: Lucette Caron was the translator for at least one French film

made in Morocco in the early 1920s and also of Michael Arlen's Le

Feutre Vert (1928). She was born February 17, 1898. Her brother

Claude married an American dancer, Margaret Petit, and their daughter

is Leslie Claire Margaret Caron (b. July 1931). Teddy Culbert,

Lucette's son by her first marriage, still lives in France.]



Cebra G.'s Religious Beliefs: Text of Carbon Copy of Document [Undated]:

I believe in an all-powerful and benign force that has ordained a

system of immutable laws by which the universe is governed. When these

laws do not seem to operate, it is merely because they are not at all,

or imperfectly, understood.. I believe that our well-being, mental,

physical and spiritual, proceeds from a conformance with these laws,

consciously or unconsciously.

I do not believe in sin in the sense that it is an offence against

some deity, but that it consists of a refusal or inability to keep the

laws that govern our every thought and action. I do not believe in a

personal God who takes an Interest in our individual behaviour,

regardless of our own attitude in the matter, but I do believe that by

an act of will or desire we can make ourselves a part of the orderly

harmonies of the universe, and that by so doing,' the ears of some of

us will be attuned to a celestial music. It is by this conscious

desire to accept the universe that we draw to ourselves those

qualities and conditions which can result in the good life for each of

us.

I believe that the measure of each human action should be whether or

not our lives tend to be permanently enhanced thereby.

I believe that the past should be without regard, except for whatever

pleasant memories it may hold for us, or warnings with respect to our

future conduct, and that regret is a luxury that the human race can

ill afford. I believe that all men are brothers and that this is .a

fact unwise to ignore.

I believe that there are many errors but no sins, and that repentance

should be limited to a decision to act in a wiser and maturer manner

in the future, should a similar occasion of error arise.

I believe in an afterlife of some sort, the details of which I am

unable to understand, but whether individual or collective survival, I

dare not speculate. I believe neither in salvation or damnation in

the conventional sense, except in so far as they are self-decreed.

The duration of each is a matter of individual choice. I also believe

that the form which our after life will take will be largely

determined by the use we make of the one we have.



- - - -



> From: rstonebraker212@comcast.net

> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:18:44 +0000

> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Cebra Graves biography

>

> I am trying to find a biography, or at least

> an obituary, of Cebra Graves. Any help would

> be greatly appreciated.

>

> Bob S.


0 -1 0 0
5492 diazeztone
William M., Tools for Fools William M., Tools for Fools 1/22/2009 7:18:00 PM


Anybody know anything about this book?



Alcoholics Anonymous Book:

"Tools For Fools" 1971 by William M.



ld pierce

aabibliography.com



- - - -



From the moderator -- I dug up a little more

info, although I know nothing about the book:



William Musser, Tools for Fools: For Alcoholics

and Other Human Beings



First printing: M and M Publishing, Minneapolis,

1971, over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Full-bound gold

buckram, brown titles, 87 pages



Paperback version: Table Publishing Co., Plymouth,

Minnesota, 1978


0 -1 0 0
5493 Bill Lash
AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 1/23/2009 7:03:00 PM


The Spiritual Awakenings Group of Bernardsville,

New Jersey presents two great presentations on

AA history & pre-AA history:



“The History of the AA book ‘Twelve Steps &

Twelve Traditions’ and what AA was like in the

N.Y.C. Area from 1949 to 1959”

with Matt D. from East Ridge NY



AND



“A Re-Enactment of a Washingtonian Temperance

Meeting”

with April K. from Lebanon Township NJ



on Saturday, February 7th, 2009

from 1:00PM – 5:00PM



at the

Fairmont Presbyterian Church Community House

247 County Route 517

(across from the Fairmont Cemetery)

Califon, New Jersey 07830



Matt D. is the son-in-law of Tom P. Tom helped

AA co-founder Bill W. write and edit AA’s

“Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions”(1952), the

stories in the second edition of the Big Book

(1955), and “Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of

Age” (1957), and was a major participant at

the AA World Service Office in N.Y.C. from

1949 to 1959. Tom was also sponsored at

different times by AA’s co-founders Dr. Bob

and Bill W. Matt has spoken at length with

Tom and has studied all of Tom’s writings and

talks about that period of time in AA history.



The Washingtonians were a temperance society

in the mid-1800s that, in the first five

years of their existence, helped approximately

500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they

self-destructed, never to be heard from again.

Bill W. read a book about them and saw that

AA was having the same problems that caused

the demise of the Washingtonians so he

developed the Twelve Traditions to assure

AA’s future.



IMPORTANT - WE WILL BE PASSING A SELF-

SUPPORTING COLLECTION BASKET TO COVER

EXPENSES AND NO COFFEE WILL BE SERVED.



For more info please call Barefoot Bill at

201-232-8749 (cell).



For a copy of the flyer, please go to

http://www.justloveaudio.com

and then click on "events" and then

scroll down to this event.


0 -1 0 0
5494 Lee
Photos of Hank Parkhurst, Rowland Hazard, Jimmy Burwell Photos of Hank Parkhurst, Rowland Hazard, Jimmy Burwell 1/25/2009 3:50:00 PM


Hello friends,



Has anyone a clue as to where to find/view

photos of any of these people:



Hank Parkhurst, Rowland Hazard, Jimmy Burwell



other than the standard ONE of each that can

be found everywhere?



Thanks,



Lee



Email address <FriendLeeCPA@msn.com>

(FriendLeeCPA at msn.com)



- - - -



From the moderator: for Rowland Hazard, do you

have both of these photos?



http://www.texasdistrict5.com/history-in-photos.htm



http://hindsfoot.org/archive3.html


0 -1 0 0
5495 Arthur S
RE: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 1/25/2009 9:56:00 PM


The notion that Bill W wrote the Traditions

based on reading a book about the Washingtonians

is absurd.



The Washingtonians did not help 500,000

alcoholics - the vast majority of their

membership make-up rapidly evolved to be

non-alcoholic temperance advocates and

adolescents.



Arthur



-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lash

Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 6:03 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009



The Spiritual Awakenings Group of Bernardsville,

New Jersey presents two great presentations on

AA history & pre-AA history:



"The History of the AA book 'Twelve Steps &

Twelve Traditions' and what AA was like in the

N.Y.C. Area from 1949 to 1959"

with Matt D. from East Ridge NY



AND



"A Re-Enactment of a Washingtonian Temperance

Meeting"

with April K. from Lebanon Township NJ



on Saturday, February 7th, 2009

from 1:00PM - 5:00PM



at the

Fairmont Presbyterian Church Community House

247 County Route 517

(across from the Fairmont Cemetery)

Califon, New Jersey 07830



Matt D. is the son-in-law of Tom P. Tom helped

AA co-founder Bill W. write and edit AA's

"Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions"(1952), the

stories in the second edition of the Big Book

(1955), and "Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of

Age" (1957), and was a major participant at

the AA World Service Office in N.Y.C. from

1949 to 1959. Tom was also sponsored at

different times by AA's co-founders Dr. Bob

and Bill W. Matt has spoken at length with

Tom and has studied all of Tom's writings and

talks about that period of time in AA history.



The Washingtonians were a temperance society

in the mid-1800s that, in the first five

years of their existence, helped approximately

500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they

self-destructed, never to be heard from again.

Bill W. read a book about them and saw that

AA was having the same problems that caused

the demise of the Washingtonians so he

developed the Twelve Traditions to assure

AA's future.



IMPORTANT - WE WILL BE PASSING A SELF-

SUPPORTING COLLECTION BASKET TO COVER

EXPENSES AND NO COFFEE WILL BE SERVED.



For more info please call Barefoot Bill at

201-232-8749 (cell).



For a copy of the flyer, please go to

http://www.justloveaudio.com

and then click on "events" and then

scroll down to this event.







------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links


0 -1 0 0
5496 Glenn Chesnut
Early Indianapolis Group pamphlet Early Indianapolis Group pamphlet 1/26/2009 3:52:00 PM


From:  "Bruce C." <brucecl2002@yahoo.com>

(brucecl2002 at yahoo.com)

 

In "To Be Continued ...", by Charlie Bishop Jr.

and Bill Pittman, they list as item # 630:



"Alcoholics Anonymous." Indianapolis, IN:

Indianapolis Group of AA, January 1949.

Note: 3.25" x 6.25". This small 6-page foldout

pamphlet contains basic information about

AA and the Twelve Steps.

 

Have any of you seen or do you know about the

contents of this pamphlet? I have checked with

some Southern Indiana Area 23 historians, and

am told that they do not know or have a copy

of this.

 

The Indianapolis Intergroup Office prints a

"Who Me" pamphlet, that has the Johns Hopkins

University 40 questions.

 

I recall an article from the Cleveland Central

Bulletin:



Central Bulletin, June 1944, page 4.

INDIANAPOLIS  GROUP

An interesting little folder comes to our

attention from Indianapolis which undoubtedly

is sent or given to interested prospects and

it tells distinctly the first steps in

affiliation with AA as well as all necessary

factual information.

In it they report 27 members who have been

total abstainers for a period of 1 to 6 years

with the number increasing each month. The

group numbers 85 men and 8 women.

 

Do any of you know how one may get a copy of

these pamphlets?



Yours in Service and Recovery

Bruce C.

Muncie, Indiana

 

<brucecl2002@yahoo.com>

(brucecl2002 at yahoo.com)


0 -1 0 0
5497 Michael F. Margetis
Bill Discusses the 12 Traditions: who are the other people? Bill Discusses the 12 Traditions: who are the other people? 1/27/2009 3:01:00 PM


In the video "Bill Discusses the Twelve

Traditions" there's I think eight people

sitting at the table with him. This may be

too much to ask, but does anyone have a clue

who some of these folks are?



Thanks,



Michael F. Margetis



Brunswick, Maryland


0 -1 0 0
5498 Fred
Dr. Silkworth''s signature Dr. Silkworth''s signature 1/27/2009 1:47:00 PM


The "Doctors Opinion" in the 16th printing of

the First Edition contains a blank space on

pg. 2:



Very truly yours, (Signed) ----- M.D.



In the same part of the 1st printing of the

Second Edition the letter has:



Very truly yours, William D. Silkworth, M.D.



Are there any historical events, other then

Dr. W. D. Silkworth's death (1873-1951) that

prompted the use of his signature in that

edition and those which followed?



Thanx For everything you do,

Fred from Ohio


0 -1 0 0
5499 DON HISHON
Re: Bill Discusses the 12 Traditions: who are the other people? Bill Discusses the 12 Traditions: who are the other people? 1/28/2009 8:12:00 AM


That video was recorded at the GSO offices, and

the folks there were staff personal-----Donny.


0 -1 0 0
5500 Les Spam
RE: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 1/30/2009 10:35:00 AM


In the 12&12 Bill wrote at the end of Tradition

10:



"The lesson to be learned from the Washing-

tonians was not overlooked by Alcoholics

Anonymous. As we surveyed the wreck of that

movement, early A.A. members resolved to keep

our Society out of public controversy. Thus

was laid the cornerstone for Tradition Ten."



It seems clear that Bill's knowledge of the 

history of the Washingtonians did play a

role in motivating the development of the

traditions.

 

Eric



- - - -



Arthur S <ArtSheehan@msn.com> wrote:



The notion that Bill W wrote the Traditions

based on reading a book about the Washingtonians

is absurd.



- - - -



Original Message from Bill Lash

<barefootbill@optonline.net>

(barefootbill at optonline.net)



The Washingtonians were a temperance society

in the mid-1800s that, in the first five

years of their existence, helped approximately

500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they

self-destructed, never to be heard from again.

Bill W. read a book about them and saw that

AA was having the same problems that caused

the demise of the Washingtonians so he

developed the Twelve Traditions to assure

AA's future.


0 -1 0 0
5501 Bill Lash
RE: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 1/28/2009 10:40:00 AM


Good morning everybody. First of all, the

flyer DOESN'T say that Bill wrote the

Traditions because he read a book on the

Washingtonians. We all know that Bill W. was

aware of common problems being experienced

throughout AA & around that same time he read

a book about the Washingtonians & saw where

AA might end up. Also around that time the

12 Traditions began to be formulated. I put

the below flyer together quickly but the point

that I was trying to make is that the Washing-

tonians played a part in Bill W.'s writing

of the 12 Traditions. Also, if the phrase

"thousands of alcoholics" works better for

you instead of "500,000 alcoholics" simply

replace the phrase in your head when you read

it. The Washingtonians went away 150 years ago

& I don't think ANYONE knows what the exact

numbers were. The January 1991 AA Grapevine

mentions their membership was "estimated at

anywhere from one to six million, of whom

perhaps 100,000 to 600,000 were sober drunks."

I guesstimated a number & you can too.



But whatever - please don't let this distract

away from the fact that there's a cool AA

history event going on in New Jersey on

February 7th & all are welcome.



Just Love,

Barefoot Bill



- - - -



From: Cindy Miller <cm53@earthlink.net>

(cm53 at earthlink.net)



Arthur -- I never got that feeling from the

announcement. They just look like 2 mighty

interesting presentations -- not cause &

effect. Perhaps the Washingtonians were a

small influence, but NOT the total reason.



- - - -



From: "James" <jdf10487@yahoo.com>

(jdf10487 at yahoo.com)



It is my understanding that Bill wrote the

traditions based on (one) his own experience

moderating conlicts in AA, (two) mistakes he

witnessed the Oxford Group make (like placing

personalities over principles), (three) the

Washingtonians who failed to stick to their

primary purpose, and got involved in politics

which resulted in contraversy and divisions

which tore them apart. According to some

accounts Bill believed that if the Washing-

tonians had stuck to being a program for

recovery from alcoholism they might have

survived. Lastly Bill's thinking was

influenced by reading a book called 'This

Believing World" -- this book chronicled

the rise and fall of various spiritual groups

and speculated about what caused them to fail.



Sincerely, Jim F.



- - - -



Original message #5493 from Bill Lash

<barefootbill@optonline.net>

(barefootbill at optonline.net)



http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5493



“A Re-Enactment of a Washingtonian Temperance

Meeting” with April K. from Lebanon Township,

New Jersey on Saturday, February 7th, 2009

from 1:00PM – 5:00PM



The Washingtonians were a temperance society

in the mid-1800s that, in the first five

years of their existence, helped approximately

500,000 alcoholics. Five years later they

self-destructed, never to be heard from again.

Bill W. read a book about them and saw that

AA was having the same problems that caused

the demise of the Washingtonians so he

developed the Twelve Traditions to assure

AA’s future.


0 -1 0 0
5502 mrsaa97
When and where is 2009 National Archives Workshop? When and where is 2009 National Archives Workshop? 2/1/2009 3:52:00 PM


Is there any information about the 2009

National Archives Workshop yet?



When will it be?



Where will it be held?


0 -1 0 0
5503 charles Knapp
National Archives Workshop 24-27 Sep 2009 Woodland Hills CA National Archives Workshop 24-27 Sep 2009 Woodland Hills CA 2/2/2009 7:55:00 PM


The 13th National Archives Workshop will be

Sept 24 thru 27th, 2008, in Woodland Hills,

California.

 

See their flyer at:

 

http://www.aanationalarchivesworkshop.com/



______________________________



From: "Lee Carroll" <FriendLeeCPA@msn.com>

(FriendLeeCPA at msn.com)



September 24th - 27th 2009



Warner Center Marriott Hotel

21850 Oxnard Blvd

Woodland Hills, California 91367

phone: 818 887 4800



Room rate = $110/night plus tax (mention

NAAAW), cutoff date Sept 7th



Special Guest:

National Archives Workshop Archivist Gail L.



Preservation/Conservation Presenters:

David C. (Washington), Perry D. (Arkansas),

Terry L. (Arkansas) using a hands on format



Chair - George R

818 378-4186 NAAAW09@aol.com



Co-chair - Mike S

805 338 5140 aaarchivesmike@sbcglobal.net



______________________________





Lee Carroll, CPA

(805) 938-1981


0 -1 0 0
5504 CloydG
He Who Loses His Life He Who Loses His Life 2/3/2009 6:35:00 PM


Does anyone know what story this passage came

from and who the author was? Clyde G.



- - - -



For me, AA is a synthesis of all the philo-

sophy I've ever read, all of the positive,

good philosophy, all of it based on love. I

have seen that there is only one law, the

law of love, and there are only two sins:

the first is to interfere with the growth of

another human being, and the second is to

interfere with one's own growth.



Alcoholics Anonymous 2nd edition, p. 551.



- - - -



From the moderator GFC:



The story is "He Who Loses His Life."

The author is "Bob" (initials E.B.R.), and

it appears on p. 540 in the 2nd edition of

the Big Book and p. 531 in the 3rd edition.

He updated his story in the September 1967

AA Grapevine.



See Nancy Olson's little bio (and the

text of the Grapevine story) at



http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm


0 -1 0 0
5505 diazeztone
Edgar Cole, Sobriety Edgar Cole, Sobriety 2/4/2009 11:55:00 AM


Edgar Cole, Sobriety (Philadelphia, Meroduk

Pub. Co., 1925).



Need info about this book and author. Does

anybody have any idea who Edgar Cole was?



This book was connected with the temperance

movement and the prohibition movement.



LDP\

www.aabibliography.com


0 -1 0 0
5506 mdingle76
The date of Dr. Bob''s last major talk The date of Dr. Bob''s last major talk 2/4/2009 5:00:00 PM


AA History Lovers,



Does anyone know the actual date of Dr. Bob's

last major talk? I know it was given in

Detroit, Michigan in December 1948 — but what

day?



Matt D.


0 -1 0 0
5507 davearlan
Writer of Ace Full-Seven-Eleven story Writer of Ace Full-Seven-Eleven story 2/8/2009 11:09:00 AM


Does anyone have any info on Del Tryon who is?

I have heard that he was the author of

"Ace Full-Seven-Eleven," the only story from

the original manuscript to be eliminated from

the first edition of the Big Book.



I am doing research on all the BB story writers.



Thanks,



Dave B


0 -1 0 0
5508 James Flynn
Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 2/2/2009 4:03:00 PM


According to a talk given by Jimmy Burwell

in 1957, Bill's writing of the traditions was

mostly influenced by reading a book called

"This Believing World" by Lewis Brown but he

was also aware of the history of the Washing-

tonian Group and had some ideas on where they

went wrong.  The talk that I am referring to

is available online for you to listen to. I

will try to enclose the link so you can review

it.  Here it is:



http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1663

 

Kindest Regards, Jim F.


0 -1 0 0
5509 khemex@comcast.net
Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 2/3/2009 11:44:00 AM


Milton Maxwell, an early member of the Board

of Directors of AA (The Alcoholic Foundation)

was an expert on the Washingtonians and

eventually wrote a masterful manuscript on

their history. He was the one who asked Bill

Wilson if he'd ever heard of them, and Bill

hadn't. That was about the time that Bill was

thinking about putting down the yet un-named

principles which later became the Traditions.



A number of years ago I was sent a manuscript

of Milton's paper on the Washingtonians,

which I retyped into a format that could be

uploaded to the then fledgling internet. I

think the document was about 75 pages or more.

Not knowing any better myself I sent it into

the cosmos and promptly crashed a server for

hours. Never did that again!!



I probably have a copy of that document

somewhere either in hard copy or on a very

old floppy disk, the really big ones.



I'll try to find it, if no one else has a

copy around.



In Love and Service to Others,

Gerry Winkelman


0 -1 0 0
5510 J. Lobdell
Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009 2/9/2009 8:16:00 PM


This is an unbelievably minor correction but

if anyone is looking up THIS BELIEVING WORLD

it might be worth knowing that the author is

Lewis Browne, with an e on the end.



> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

> From: jdf10487@yahoo.com

> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:03:49 -0800

> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb

2009

>

> According to a talk given by Jimmy Burwell

> in 1957, Bill's writing of the traditions was

> mostly influenced by reading a book called

> "This Believing World" by Lewis Brown but he

> was also aware of the history of the Washing-

> tonian Group and had some ideas on where they

> went wrong. The talk that I am referring to

> is available online for you to listen to. I

> will try to enclose the link so you can review

> it. Here it is:

>

> http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1663

>

> Kindest Regards, Jim F.


0 -1 0 0
5511 Mitchell K.
Milton Maxwell on the Washingtonians Milton Maxwell on the Washingtonians 2/8/2009 10:33:00 PM


In 1992 Charlie Bishop (The Bishop of Books)

published a book entitled "The Washingtonians

and Alcoholics Anonymous." That book included

a reprint of the Maxwell article. I don't know

if Charlie has this in electronic format but

I'm sure it is available somewhere. I also

used to have a reprint of just the article

which I got from Nell Wing at GSO. (it was,

according to Charlie, a 42 page article.)

 

- - - -



Message #5509

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5509

From: <khemex@comcast.net >

(khemex at comcast.net)



Re: AA History presentation - Califon NJ - 7 Feb 2009



Milton Maxwell, an early member of the Board

of Directors of AA (The Alcoholic Foundation)

was an expert on the Washingtonians and

eventually wrote a masterful manuscript on

their history. He was the one who asked Bill

Wilson if he'd ever heard of them, and Bill

hadn't. That was about the time that Bill was

thinking about putting down the yet un-named

principles which later became the Traditions.



A number of years ago I was sent a manuscript

of Milton's paper on the Washingtonians,

which I retyped into a format that could be

uploaded to the then fledgling internet. I

think the document was about 75 pages or more.

Not knowing any better myself I sent it into

the cosmos and promptly crashed a server for

hours. Never did that again!!



I probably have a copy of that document

somewhere either in hard copy or on a very

old floppy disk, the really big ones.



I'll try to find it, if no one else has a

copy around.



In Love and Service to Others,

Gerry Winkelman


0 -1 0 0
5512 James Blair
Milton Maxwell and AA Milton Maxwell and AA 2/9/2009 12:36:00 AM


Facts on Maxwell from Markings (archives news letter.)

.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_fall08.pdf



Maxwell's paper on the Washingtonian Movement

was published in the Quarterly Journal of

Studies on Alcohol, Volume 11, P 410-452,

1950.



The paper was intended to familiarize readers

with the history of the Washingtonian Movement

and to compare similarities and differences

between AA and the Washingtonians.



The AA GV carried many articles on the

Washingtonians. The first was a piece

submitted by C.H.K. of Lansing, MI, titled

"History Offers Good Lessons For AA." and

was published in the July 1945 issue.



Bill W. followed article up with an article

in the August 1945 issue titled "Modesty

One Plank For Good Public Relations" and

then an article in the September 1945 issue

titled "'Rules' Dangerous, But Unity on

Public Policy Vital to Future." In both of

these articles Bill focused on the failing

of the Washingtonians which resulted in

public controversy.



Between 1945 and to date the GV has published

over 15 articles on the Wahingtonians.



Jim B.


0 -1 0 0
5513 Shakey1aa@aol.com
Clarence Snyder''s Anniversary Clarence Snyder''s Anniversary 2/11/2009 4:23:00 AM


Mitchell K, Clarence Snyder's sponsee wrote me

today and mentioned that today, February 11,

would be Clarence's 71st anniversary. Happy

Birthday Clarence!



(As a side note, when Jimmy Burwell wrote

Clarence on leap year day of 1940, that the

Philadelphia Group had their first meeting,

he misspelled Snyder as Snider.)



YIS,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz

Phila, Pa. USA


0 -1 0 0
5514 Patricia
Barefoot Bob died on 31 January 2009 Barefoot Bob died on 31 January 2009 2/11/2009 2:44:00 PM


http://alcoholism.about.com/b/2009/02/09/barefoot-bob-dead-at-age-75.htm?nl=1

 

"Barefoot Bob" who created and maintained a

personal website popular with members of

Alcoholics Anonymous and other recovery groups,

died January 31, 2009 in hospice care in Idaho

after a lengthy illness. He was 75. Bob had

been sober for more than 34 years. His sobriety

date was Feb. 28, 1974.


0 -1 0 0
5515 Arthur S
Part 0 - The Washingtonians and How the Traditions Originated and Evolved Part 0 - The Washingtonians and How the Traditions Originated and Evolved 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM


In AA Comes of Age pg 96 Bill W wrote: "The Twelve Traditions are to group

survival and harmony what AA's Twelve Steps are to each member's sobriety

and peace of mind."



The history of the Traditions of AA is a fascinating one. There is actually

more written about the Traditions in AA literature than there is about the

Steps.



A series of postings will be sent to AAHL in the form of a timeline to cover

the history of the Traditions up through 1988. That is when the last major

chronicle of Traditions history was published in the book "The Language of

the Heart."



The postings that follow will be on the topics of:



Part 1 - What and when did Bill W likely know about the Washingtonians?

Part 2 - The Washingtonians

Part 3 - The birth of the Traditions

Part 4 - The evolution of the Traditions from long to short form

Part 5 - The role of the Traditions in the General Service Structure

Part 6 - The links among the Traditions, Conference Charter (Warranties) and

Concepts



Source references for the postings are:



[12&12-Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions] -- [AABB-Alcoholics Anonymous,

the "Big Book"] -- [AACOA-AA Comes of Age] -- [AGAA-The Akron Genesis of

Alcoholics Anonymous, by Dick B] -- [BW-RT-Bill W by Robert Thomsen] --

[BW-FH-Bill W by Francis Hartigan] -- [BW-40-Bill W My First 40 Years,

autobiography] -- [DBGO-Dr Bob and the Good Old-timers] -- [EBBY-Ebby the

Man Who Sponsored Bill W by Mel B] -- [GB-Getting Better Inside Alcoholics

Anonymous by Nan R]



[GTBT-Grateful to Have Been There by Nell Wing] -- [GSC-FR-General Service

Conference-Final Report (identified by year)] -- [GSO-General Service

Office-service pieces] -- [GSO-AC-General Service Office Archives

Collection] -- [Gv-Grapevine-identified by month and year] -- [HIW-How It

Worked by Mitchell K] -- [HT-Harry Tiebout-the Collected Writings, Hazelden]

-- [LOH-The Language of the Heart] -- [LR-Lois Remembers, by Lois W]



[MMM-Mrs Marty Mann, by Sally and David R Brown] -- [NG-Not God, by Ernest

Kurtz] -- [NW-New Wine, by Mel B] -- [PIO-Pass It On, AAWS] -- [SI-Sister

Ignatia, by Mary C Darrah] -- [SD-Slaying the Dragon, by William L White] --

[SM-AA Service Manual and Twelve Concepts for World Service] --

[www-Internet]



Happy reading

Arthur S


0 -1 0 0
5516 Arthur S
Part 1 - What and When Did Bill W Likely Know About the Washingtonians Part 1 - What and When Did Bill W Likely Know About the Washingtonians 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM


The August 1945 Grapevine carried Bill W's first Traditions article titled

"Modesty One Plank for Good Public Relations" (LOH 3-6). The previous

month's Grapevine had an article by CHK of Lansing, MI about the

Washingtonians. Bill used the CHK article as a reference to begin his

Traditions essay commentaries. The July 1945 Grapevine article by CHK

contains a number of factual errors about the Washingtonians that eventually

carried into Bill's Grapevine essays and subsequently into the 12&12 and

AACOA. So far I can find no other source that Bill W was exposed to on the

Washingtonians prior to 1945 (that does not mean there weren't any).



The September 1945 Grapevine carried Bill's second Traditions article titled

"Rules Dangerous, but Unity on Public Policies Vital to Future of AA." He

mentions the Washingtonians again but his commentary is misinformed i.e.

"they mushroomed to a hundred thousand members, then collapsed."(LOH 6-9 -

its title has been shortened). In an October 1945 Grapevine article titled

"The Book is Born" Bill mentions the Washingtonians again, in what I believe

is an incorrect context as to the major issues of division in the

Washingtonians (LOH 9-12) - more on this later.



The December 1946 Grapevine reported on the NY Intergroup's 11th annual

dinner that "Bill W, one of the two co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous,

delivered the principal AA address at the dinner. He reviewed AA's

tremendous growth in the past few years and predicted its future. "If we

remember that our first duty is face-to-face help for the alcoholic who

still suffers from his illness, we need not worry about our future," he

said. Drawing a contrast between AA of today and a similar organization, The

Washingtonians, of 100 years ago, he pointed out how important it is to

adhere to simple principles if AA is to survive. He compared the principles

of the Franciscan order of 700 years ago to the principles of AA today, and

concluded with a restatement of the Twelve Points of Tradition that have

evolved through experience in AA.



In 1950 past General Service Board Chairman Milton A Maxwell, published an

extended paper on the Washingtonians while he was Assistant Professor of

Sociology at the State College of Washington at Pullman. This paper was the

primary source reference for October 1962, February 1971 and January 1991

Grapevine articles. There are other Grapevine articles about the

Washingtonians and it should be noted that these articles do not necessarily

go through a vetting and editing process to validate and corroborate their

content. An excellent source of information about the Washingtonians is

William White's "Slaying the Dragon" (the whole book is a gem).



The October 1962 Grapevine article about the Washingtonians illustrates some

of the difficulties and precautions of using the magazine as a reference

source. Editorial license is interspersed among source references. The

October 1962 Grapevine article states: "What happened to them? By an AA

'coincidence' there arrived at the Grapevine the same week an excerpt from a

scholarly treatment of 'The Washingtonian Movement' written by Milton A.

Maxwell, PhD and published in the Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol.

The Washingtonians, Dr. Maxwell points out, had certain notable features

later incorporated into AA: ( 1 ) Alcoholics helping each other (2) Weekly

meetings (3) Shared experience (4) Fellowship of a group or its members

constantly available (5) A reliance upon the Higher Power (6) Total

abstinence from alcohol. Unfortunately, the movement eventually was torn

apart in the political and doctrinal warfare associated with the temperance

and abolition movements."



The last sentence beginning with "Unfortunately" is the editorial license of

the article's author. It gives the impression that it is a conclusion

derived from the Maxwell paper. In fact, Maxwell's paper makes no mention at

all of abolition or slavery. The paper also lists the guidelines published

by the Washingtonians on how to organize and conduct Washingtonian meetings.

Article 3 of these provisions was to "Forbid the introduction of sectarian

sentiments or party politics into any lecture, speeches, singing, or doings

of the society." The matter of prohibition evolved into a definite divisive

issue among the Washingtonians.


0 -1 0 0
5517 Arthur S
Part 2 - The Washingtonians Part 2 - The Washingtonians 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM


In the early 1800s, the relatively new republic of the United States was

truly on a destructive alcohol binge and the effects were devastating.

Prominent historical figures, such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson,

Benjamin Franklin and John Adams, urgently called for a change in drinking

practices. They appealed to the country for “temperance” which at that time

meant “moderation” in drinking. (SD 4-5)



By the 1820s, people in the US were drinking on average 27 liters (7

gallons) of pure alcohol per person each year. Many religious and political

leaders were beginning to see drunkenness as a national curse. Momentum was

picked up by religious leaders to change the notion of “temperance as

moderation” to mean “temperance as abstinence.” This began the growth of

American temperance societies that would later lead to the alcohol

prohibition movement. (SD 4-5)



1840 April 5 - a group of six drinking club friends (William Mitchell, John

Hoss, David Anderson, George Steers, James McCurley and Archibald Campbell)

from Chase’s Tavern in Baltimore, MD formed a total abstinence society.

Pledging to “not drink any spirituous or malt liquors, wine or cider” they

named themselves the Washington Temperance Society (in honor of George

Washington). They later became known as Washingtonians. They required a

pledge of total abstinence and attendance at weekly meetings where members

would tell their stories of drunkenness and recovery. As a body, they

recognized no religion or creed and were politically neutral. Each member

was supposed to help alcoholics who were still drinking. They sought out new

prospects (“hard cases”). Their weekly meetings were held at Chase’s tavern

until the owner’s wife objected to the increasing loss of their best

customers. They had a 25-cent initiation fee ($5.50 today) and member’s dues

of 12 ½ cents per month ($2.75 today). (SD 8-9, www Milton Maxwell paper)



1840 November 19 - the Washingtonians held their first public meeting.

Growth of the movement was extremely rapid. Widespread and enthusiastic

support came from numerous temperance societies. The Washingtonians had

great success in mobilizing public attention on temperance by relaying their

“experience sharing” of alcoholic debauchery followed by glorious accounts

of personal reformation. A leader of the movement noted, “There is a

prevalent impression, that none but reformed drunkards are admitted as

members of the Washingtonian Society. This is a mistake. Any man may become

a member by signing the pledge and continue so by adhering to it.” (SD 9,

www Milton Maxwell paper)



1841 May 12 - the Washingtonians organized the first Martha Washington

Society meeting for women and children in NY. They provided moral and

material support to reform female inebriates and assisted the wives and

children of male inebriates. This was the first temperance movement in which

women assumed leadership roles. The movement also spawned juvenile auxiliary

groups. Freed blacks organized separate Washingtonian societies. (SD 10)



1843 Mid-to-end - the Washingtonian movement peaked after having reached all

major areas of the US. Estimates of its membership vary and are

contradictory. The sole requirement for membership was to sign a “total

abstinence pledge.” Members included teetotalers, temperance advocates, and

a large segment of adolescents (under age 15) and drinkers of various types

whose numbers far exceeded that of the “drunkards.” A reliable estimate of

the number of alcoholics in the mix is impossible to derive. Over the

lifetime of the movement, hundreds of thousands signed pledges but the

number of rehabilitated alcoholics was likely under 150,000. (1996 GSC-FR

15, SD-10, www Milton Maxwell paper)



1847 - Estimate of when the Washingtonians “spent its force.” The society

originally favored “moral suasion” to achieve reformation of the alcoholic

through abstinence. However, the Washingtonian membership makeup changed

rapidly and radically to consist mainly of non-alcoholic temperance

advocates. Sentiments shifted away from reformation of alcoholics to the

pursuit of a legal means to prohibit alcohol. Washingtonian practices came

to be viewed as outmoded and interest waned. There was no sudden collapse.

When the novelty and emotional appeal of the Washingtonians became outmoded,

they simply faded from the scene.



“AA Comes of Age” (pg 125) cites issues such as religion, politics and

abolition of slavery as root causes of the Washingtonian decline. While

there were certainly cases of this, there is no compelling evidence to

support or conclude that these issues had a major role in the Washingtonians

downfall. Prohibition was certainly a very divisive issue among the

Washingtonians as were power struggles among its leadership. However, the

major and pervasive causes of the Washingtonians downfall appear to be a

direct result of their departing from their original membership makeup

(which started out as all alcoholics) and their departing from their

original primary and single purpose (which began as one alcoholic helping

another alcoholic who was still suffering). It is a powerful lesson on the

vital importance of AA’s Traditions to the ongoing survival of the AA

Fellowship. (SD 8-14, 12&12 178-179, AACOA 124-125, PIO 366-367. www Milton

Maxwell paper)


0 -1 0 0
5518 Arthur S
Part 3 - The Birth of the Traditions Part 3 - The Birth of the Traditions 2/11/2009 10:49:00 PM


1935 June - Almost a century after the Washingtonians, the AA Fellowship

started in Akron, OH. It was a result of an action that later formed the

heart of Step 12 and Tradition 5 as AA's primary purpose of carrying a

message of recovery from one alcoholic to another still-suffering alcoholic.

AA's co-founders, Bill W and Dr Bob, first met on Mothers Day May 12, 1935.

A few weeks later, Dr Bob went on his last binge. Bill helped him through 3

days of sobering up to get ready for a scheduled surgery. Dr Bob had his

last drink on the day of the surgery, which is celebrated as June 10, 1935.

Bill W's sobriety date is December 11, 1934. AA marks its beginning as the

day that Dr Bob, the second alcoholic, had his last drink. (AACOA, DBGO,

PIO)



1935 July 4 - Carrying a message to a still-suffering alcoholic also led to

the founding of AA's first group. Bill W and Dr Bob visited Bill D at Akron

City Hospital in late June. Bill D had already been hospitalized 8 times in

1935 for his drinking and It took 5 days before he admitted he could not

control his drinking. The 4th of July is an important date in our nation's

history (it is Independence Day). The 4th of July is also an important date

in AA history. AA's first group, Akron #1, marks its beginning as July 4,

1935 when Bill D, AA #3, was discharged from Akron City Hospital and joined

with Bill W and Dr Bob to help other alcoholics. During the first 4 years of

the AA Fellowship, there were two groups: Akron #1 and New York City. (AACOA

71-73, AABB 184, BW-RT 219-220, DBGO 81-89, NG 37, 319, PIO 152-154, GB 42,

AGAA 202-203).



In their earliest years, the AA groups in Akron and NY were directly

affiliated with the Oxford Group. It certainly was helpful at the beginning

but over time, it produced problems. During 1936, Bill W's efforts in

working only with alcoholics were criticized by NY OG members. Similarly, in

Akron, T Henry and Clarace Williams were criticized by OG members who were

not supportive of their efforts being extended primarily to alcoholics. (NG

44-45, NW 73, AGAA 76)



1936 December - AACOA 102 notes that one of the earliest personal

experiences that influenced the Traditions occurred when Bill W was two

years sober. Charles B Towns offered Bill a lucrative job at his hospital as

a lay alcoholism therapist. After years of a hand to mouth existence Bill

wanted the job very much. The question was put to the NY group meeting in

Bill's home and they rejected it. Bill complied and cooperated with their

decision and later wrote in AACOA 101-102: "Three blows, well and truly

struck, had fallen on the anvil of experience . The common welfare must come

first . AA cannot have a class of professional therapists . and God,

speaking in the group conscience, is to be our final authority." Bill went

on to write "Clearly implied in these three embryo principles of tradition

was a fourth: Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern."

(AACOA 100-102, LR 197, BW-RT 232-234, NG 63-64, PIO 175-177)



On the AA calendar of "year two" (1937) the spirit of Tradition 3 emerged. A

member asked to be admitted who frankly described himself to the "oldest"

member as "the victim of another addiction even worse stigmatized than

alcoholism." The "addiction" was "sex deviate" (revealed by Bill W in an

audiotaped talk to the 1968 GSC). Guidance came from Dr Bob (the oldest

member in Akron, OH) asking, "What would the Master do?" The member was

admitted and plunged into 12th Step work. (DBGO 240-241 12&12 141-142) Note:

this story is often erroneously intermingled with an incident that occurred

eight years later in 1945 at the 41st St clubhouse in NYC. (PIO 318, 12&12

141-142).



1937 Late spring - some leaders of the OG at the Calvary Mission ordered

alcoholics staying there not to attend meetings at Clinton St. Bill W and

Lois were criticized by OG members for having "drunks only" meetings at

their home. They were described as "not maximum" (an OG term for those

believed to be lagging in their devotion to OG principles). (EBBY 75, LR

103, BW-RT 231, NG 45, NW 89-91)



1937 August - Bill and Lois stopped attending Oxford Group meetings and the

NY AAs separated from the OG. This was the beginning of AA separating itself

from outside affiliation and it set the groundwork for what would later

become Tradition 6. The Akron group remained affiliated with the OG for two

more years. (LR 197, AACOA vii, 74-76)

1937 October - Bill W and Dr Bob met again in Akron, OH. There were two

groups then and about 40 sober members (more than half were sober for over a

year). It was a remarkable success story since every one of the sober

members had previously been considered hopeless and beyond any help at all.

Bill had some rather grandiose ideas for AA hospitals, paid missionaries and

a book of experience to carry the message to distant places. Dr Bob liked

the book idea but not the hospitals and paid missionaries. In a meeting at T

Henry Williams home, Bill's ideas narrowly passed. A single vote made the

difference among the meeting of 18 Akron members. The NY group was more

enthusiastic. This historic milestone marked the decision to write the Big

Book. (AACOA vii, 76-77, 144-146, BW-RT 239-243, DBGO 123-124, NG 56-57, PIO

180, LOH 142)



1937 Late - The book project's first challenge was financing and it was no

simple matter. The country was still in the grips of the great economic

depression and the prospects of World War II were looming dangerously large

in Europe and Asia. Initial efforts to raise funds were not successful. Bill

W's brother-in-law, Dr Leonard V Strong, set up a meeting in December 1937

with Willard S Richardson (who was an ordained minister and manager of John

D Rockefeller's philanthropies). A second meeting took place in January

1938. (AACOA 147-149, BW-RT 245-246, NG 65-66, PIO 181-185)



1948 February - Willard Richardson asked Frank Amos to visit Akron and make

a report on the Fellowship. Amos wrote a very favorable and glowing report

that Richardson sent to John D Rockefeller Jr urging a donation of $5,000 a

year for 1 or possibly 2 years (the equivalent of $74,000 a year in today's

dollars). (BW-FH 105-106 says $10,000, $5,000 a year for 2 years, in LOH 61

Bill W says $30,000 - both figures are wrong). (SM S3, BW-RT 246, LR 197,

DBGO 128-135, BW-FH 105-106, PIO 185-187, LOH 143, AGAA 217, 258)



1938 March - Rockefeller replied to Richardson that it was contrary to the

policy of his philanthropies to fully fund a charitable enterprise unless it

was decided to carry it indefinitely. Rockefeller declined to make a

donation for the second year but did provide $5,000 to be held in a fund in

the Riverside Church treasury. Much of the fund was used to immediately

assist Dr Bob by paying off the mortgage to his home. The remainder was used

to provide Bill and Dr Bob, who were both in very difficult financial

straits, with $120 a month ($1,800 a month today) so that they could

continue to dedicate themselves full time to the Fellowship. (BW-RT 247,

AACOA 149-151, DBGO 135, PIO 187-188, GSO-AC)



1938 August 5 - the Alcoholic Foundation was established as a charitable

trust with a board of five Trustees (in LOH 61 Bill W said it started with

seven Trustees). The trust indenture document specified that non-alcoholic

trustees were to make up a majority of the board. The terms "Class A" and

"Class B" trustees were used to make a distinction between non-alcoholic and

alcoholic board members. Its first meeting took place on August 11. (GSO,

BW-RT 248, AACOA 151-152, LR 197, NG 66, 307, 330).



1939 April - the first edition of "Alcoholics Anonymous" was published at a

selling price of $3.50 ($52 today). the Foreword to the first edition Big

Book has many of the key principles that later shaped the Traditions. To

quote from the foreword: "... It is important that we remain anonymous. We

would like it understood that our alcoholic work is an avocation. When

writing or speaking publicly about alcoholism, we urge each of our

Fellowship to omit his personal name, designating himself instead as 'a

member of Alcoholics Anonymous' ... Very earnestly we ask the press also, to

observe this request, for otherwise we shall be greatly handicapped ... We

are not an organization in the conventional sense of the word. There are no

fees or dues whatsoever. The only requirement for membership is an honest

desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect

or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone. We simply wish to be helpful to

those who are afflicted ..." (AABB xiii-xiv 4th edition) this text also

later formed the basis for the AA Preamble



In the late 1930s and early 1940s, public relations had the most dramatic

impact on AA membership growth. Liberty Magazine, headed by Fulton Oursler,

carried a piece titled Alcoholics and God by Morris Markey (who was

influenced to write the article by Charles Towns). It generated about 800

inquiries from around the nation. Oursler (author of "The Greatest Story

Ever Told") became good friends with Bill W and later served as a Trustee

and member of the Grapevine editorial board. (AACOA 176-178, LOH 145,

180-183 BW-FH 127-129, PIO 223-224)



Membership grew suddenly in Cleveland due to the September Liberty Magazine

article and a series of editorials in the Cleveland Plain Dealer by Elrick B

Davis. As a result, the Cleveland group was flooded with appeals for help.

Newcomers with just a few days of sobriety were assigned to make 12th Step

calls. Cleveland membership surged from 20 to several hundred. (AACOA viii,

177-178, BW-RT 261, LR 197, LOH 145-146, SI 164, PIO 224, AGAA 4-5)



1939 October - (AACOA viii says summer) Akron members of the "alcoholic

squad" withdrew from the Oxford Group and held meetings at Dr Bob's house.

The founding of the Cleveland Group and this action by the Akron Group ended

all outside affiliation between the AA Fellowship and the OG or anyone else.

(NW 93-94, SI 35, DBGO 212-219, NG 81, GTBT 123, AGAA 8-10, 188, 243)


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1940 February 8 - John D Rockefeller Jr. held a dinner for AA at the Union

League Club. 75 of 400 invited guests attended. Nelson Rockefeller hosted in

the absence of his ill father. The dinner produced much favorable publicity

for AA. It also raised $2,200 ($32,000 today) from the attendees ($1,000

from Rockefeller). Rockefeller and the dinner guests continued to provide

"outside contributions" of about $3,000 a year ($43,500 today) up to 1945

when they were asked to stop contributing. The Alcoholic Foundation received

the donations and income from sales of the Big Book for safekeeping. (LR

197, BW-RT 264-267, AACOA viii, 182-187, NG 92-94, BW-FH 109-112, PIO

232-235).



1940 April 16 - Cleveland Indians baseball star "Rollicking" Rollie H had

his anonymity broken in the Cleveland Plain Dealer and nationally. Bill W

did likewise in later personal appearances in 1942 and 1943. (AACOA 135,

BW-RT 268-270, DBGO 249-253, NG 85-87, 96-96, AACOA 24-25, BW-FH 134-135,

PIO 236-238, GTBT 156)



1940 May 22 - Works Publishing Co was legally incorporated as a publishing

arm of the Alcoholic Foundation. The major stockholders, Bill W and Hank P,

gave up their stock with a written stipulation that Dr Bob and Anne would

receive 10% royalties on the Big Book for life. (AACOA 189-190, LR 199,

BW-FH 119, SM 11, PIO 235-236, GTBT 92, GSO-AC)



1940 October - Bill W went to Philadelphia to speak to Curtis Bok, one of

the owners of the Saturday Evening Post (the largest general circulation

magazine in the US with a readership of 3,000,000). Later, in December, Jack

Alexander was assigned to do a story on AA. (LR 131, BW-RT 278-279, BW-FH

140-141, PIO 244-245, GB 82)



1941 March 1 - Jack Alexander's Saturday Evening Post article was published

and became AA's most notable public relations blessing. The publicity caused

1941 membership to jump from around 2,000 to 8,000. Bill W's and two other

members' pictures appeared full-face in the article. (AACOA viii, 35-36,

190-191, BW-RT 281, LOH 149-150, BW-FH 146, PIO 245-247) The article, led to

over 6,000 appeals for help to be mailed to the NY Office. (SM S7, PIO 249)

Consequently, the NY office asked groups to donate $1 ($14 today) per

member, per year, for support. This began the practice of financing what is

today called the General Service Office from group and member donations.

(AACOA 112, 192, LOH 149, SM S7)



From all these public relations blessings emerged the proven principle in

the long form of Tradition 11 that states, "There is never need to praise

ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us."



1941 - Clarence S founder of AA in Cleveland joined with Cleveland pioneer

Abby G to start AA's first Central Office. Bill W also credits Abby G and

the Cleveland Central Office with introducing the principle of rotation to

AA.



1941 December 8 - the US entered World War II. With the possibility of being

recalled to active duty in the Army, Bill W requested that he be granted a

royalty on book sales to provide financial support for his wife Lois. The

board approved a 10% royalty. Prior to this, Dr Bob was voluntarily giving

Bill half the 10% royalty that he and Anne were (irregularly) receiving.

(1951 GSC-FR 13)



1942 - Board Trustee A LeRoy Chipman asked John D Rockefeller Jr. and his

1940 dinner guests for $8,500 ($102,500 today) to buy back the remaining

outstanding shares of Works Publishing Inc. stock. Rockefeller lent $4,000,

his son Nelson $500 and the other dinner guests $4,000. By acquiring all the

outstanding shares it ensured that complete ownership of the Big Book would

be held in trust for the entire AA Fellowship. Rockefeller's custom was to

forgive $1 of debt ($12 today) for each $1 repaid. The Rockefeller and

dinner guest loans were repaid by 1945 out of Big Book income. (AACOA 189,

BW-FH 110-111, SM S7, LOH 148, AACOA says $8,000)



1942 October - Clarence S stirred up a controversy in Cleveland after

discovering that Dr Bob and Bill W were receiving royalties from Big Book

sales. (DBGO 267-269, BW-FH 153-154, AACOA 193-194) Bill and Dr Bob

re-examined the problem of their financial status and concluded that

royalties from the Big Book seemed to be the only answer to the problem.

Bill sought counsel from his spiritual sponsor, Father Edward Dowling, who

suggested that Bill and Bob could not accept money for 12th Step work, but

should accept royalties as compensation for special services. This later

formed the basis for Tradition 8 and Concept 11. Due to the amount of time

both co-founders dedicated to the Fellowship, it was impossible for either

of them to earn a living through their normal professions. (AACOA 194-195,

PIO 322-324)



1940s Early - the NY office was variously called the Headquarters or Central

Office or General Office. It had the vital job of responding to letters from

groups and members. It also provided a central communications link to

members attempting to start groups and helping them with growing pains. The

letters from groups and members gave firm signals of a need for guidelines

to help with problems that occurred repeatedly. Basic ideas for the 12

Traditions came from these letters and the principles defined in the

Foreword to the first edition Big Book. (AACOA 187, 192-193, 198, 203-204,

PIO 305-306, LOH 154)



1944 June - Volume 1, No. 1 of the Grapevine was published (1,200 copies).

The Grapevine later played a critical and central role in the development of

the Traditions and General Service Conference. It is also recognized in the

long form of Tradition 9 as AA's "principal newspaper" given its newspaper

format at the time. (AACOA viii, 201-203, 212, LOH 153-154, SM S79, PIO 305)





1945 - The Alcoholic Foundation wrote to John D Rockefeller Jr and the 1940

dinner guests that AA no longer needed their financial help. Big Book

royalties could look after Dr Bob and Bill and group contributions could pay

the office expenses. If these were insufficient, the reserve accumulated out

of literature sales could meet the deficit. In total, Rockefeller and the

dinner guest donated $30,700 ($345,000 today) to AA. The donations were

viewed as loans and paid back out of Big Book income. This led to the

principle of being fully self-supporting declining all further outside

contributions and later formed the basis of Tradition 7. (AACOA 203-204)



1945 April - by the mid-1940s the accumulated letters sent to the NY office

by groups and members led to reliable conclusions on what practices worked

well and what did not. Groups were also asked to send in their membership

rules and it provided quite a jolt. If all the rules were applied

everywhere, it would be impossible for any alcoholic to join AA. Earl T,

founder of AA in Chicago suggested to Bill W that the experiences sent in

from group and member correspondence might be codified into a set of

principles to offer tested solutions to avoid future problems. Earl

recommended to Bill W that he codify the Traditions and write essays on them

in the Grapevine. Earl T had a major role in the development of the

Traditions (both long and short forms). He later served as a Class B Trustee

from 1951-1954 and helped establish the General Service Conference. He is

also the member described in the Big Book chapter "The Family Afterward"

(AABB 135) as getting drunk again after his wife nagged him about his

smoking and drinking coffee.(SM S8, AACOA 22, 203, GTBT 54-55, 77, SM S8,

PIO 306, LOH 20-24)



Bill W wrote in AACOA 208 that the period from 1945-1950 was one of immense

strain and test. The three main issues were money, anonymity and what was to

become of AA when its old timers and founders were gone. This 5-year period

saw Bill's most intensive and exhaustive work of establishing a service

structure and advocating the Traditions.



The August 1945 Grapevine carried Bill W's first Traditions article titled

"Modesty One Plank for Good Public Relations" setting the groundwork for his

5-year campaign for the Traditions. The preceding July 1945 Grapevine

edition had an article by member CHK of Lansing, MI about the

Washingtonians. Bill used this article to begin his essay commentaries on

the Traditions. The July 1945 article by CHK contained a number of factual

errors about the Washingtonians that carried into Bill's Grapevine essays

and subsequently into the 12&12 and AACOA.



1946 April - The Grapevine was incorporated in April 1946 as the second

publishing arm of the Alcoholic Foundation. The April 1946 Grapevine carried

Bill W's essay titled "Twelve Suggested Points for AA Tradition." They later

came to be called the "Long Form of the Traditions." Bill W wrote Grapevine

essays on the Traditions up to late 1949. The essays are preserved in LOH

and were used in writing the 12&12 and AACOA.


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1946 - Bill started to feel out the board and the Fellowship on the idea of

various geographical Areas coming together as an elected service conference.

The board and Dr Bob were not very enthusiastic about the idea. This marked

the first suggestion for the General Service Conference. (LOH 338, SM 12

says 1945)



1946 - A dispute arose over a funding solicitation letter from the National

Council for Education on Alcoholism (NCEA) by Marty M. Dr Bob and Bill W's

names appeared on the letterhead. An Alcoholic Foundation Board statement on

fund raising was printed in the October 1946 Grapevine to disavow AA

affiliation. (GTBT 29, NG 119, MMM 185)



1947 April 8 - after a difficult year of talks on policy and structure, Bill

W wrote a paper titled "Our AA General Service Center-The Alcoholic

Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow." It outlined a history of the

Foundation and recommended a General Service Conference and renaming the

Alcoholic Foundation to the General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous.

The Trustee's reaction was at first defensive and then outright negative.

They saw no need for change. Most members would not associate the seeds of

the Twelve Traditions and Twelve Concepts with the years 1946 and 1947

respectively. AA was on the verge of its teenage years and a visionary Bill

W was laying the groundwork for the membership's coming of age. (AACOA

210-211, www, GSO-AC)



In his August 1947 Grapevine Traditions essay titled "Last Seven Years Have

Made AA Self-Supporting" Bill W wrote "Two years ago the trustees set aside,

out of AA book funds, a sum which enabled my wife and me to pay off the

mortgage on our home and make some needed improvements. The Foundation also

granted Dr Bob and me each a royalty of 10% on the book Alcoholics

Anonymous, our only income from AA sources. We are both very comfortable and

deeply grateful." (LOH 62-66)



The December 1947 Grapevine carried a notice that an important new 48-page

pamphlet titled "AA Traditions" was sent to each group and that enough

copies were available for each member to have one free of charge. It was

AA's first piece of literature dedicated totally to the Traditions.



A sad and gloomy cloud emerged in 1947; Dr Bob was stricken with cancer.

(AACOA 209, BW-RT 303-304) Dr Bob's cancer was diagnosed as terminal in the

summer of 1948. Bill W was spurred into greater urgency by the progression

of Dr Bob's illness and pressed harder for a General Service Conference. It

resulted in hot debates and a serious rift developed between Bill and the

Class B trustees over Bill's use of "sledge-hammer tactics." In AACOA 210

Bill admits to writing a sizzling memo that "nearly blew the Foundation

apart." (AACOA 210-211, DBGO 320, 348, GSO-AC)



1949 July 14 - in a letter to the Rev Sam Shoemaker Bill W wrote "So far as

I am concerned, and Dr Smith too, the Oxford Group seeded AA. It was our

spiritual wellspring at the beginning." In AACOA 39 Bill also wrote, "Early

AA got its ideas of self-examination, acknowledgment of character defects,

restitution for harm done, and working with others straight from the Oxford

Groups and directly from Sam Shoemaker, their former leader in America, and

from nowhere else." (AGAA 137)



1949 - as plans for the first International Convention were under way, Earl

T suggested to Bill W that the Twelve Suggested Points for AA Tradition

would benefit from revision and shortening. (AACOA 213 says it occurred in

"1947 or thereabouts"). Bill, with Earl's help, set out to develop the short

form of the Twelve Traditions, which was published in the November 1949

Grapevine. (AACOA 213, GTBT 55, 77, PIO 334, www)



The entire November 1949 Grapevine was dedicated to the Traditions in

preparation for the Cleveland Convention in 1950. In 1953, two wording

changes were made to the version published in 1949: the term "primary

spiritual aim" was changed to "primary purpose" in Tradition Six, and the

term "principles above personalities" was changed to "principles before

personalities" in Tradition Twelve. The November Grapevine issue also

contained an article by Bill W titled "A Suggestion for Thanksgiving." Bill

endorsed a suggestion in a letter and article from member TDY titled "You

have a stake in the future of AA." The suggestion was to "adopt Thanksgiving

Week as a time for meetings and meditation on the Tradition of Alcoholics

Anonymous." (LOH 95-96).



1950 July 28-30 - AA's 15th anniversary and first International Convention

was held at Cleveland, OH (estimated 3,000 attendees). The Traditions

meeting was held in the Cleveland Music Hall. Following talks on the

Traditions by 6 old-timer members, Bill W was asked to sum up the Traditions

for the attendees. Contrary to popular belief, the short form of the

Traditions were not approved at the 1950 Convention, Bill W did not recite

either the short or the long form of the Traditions to the attendees.

Instead, he paraphrased and summarized a variation of the Traditions that is

preserved in LOH 121.This is what Bill W read and was approved:



"That, touching all matters affecting AA unity, our common welfare should

come first; that AA has no human authority - only God as he may speak in our

Group Conscience;



that our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern;



that any alcoholic may become an AA member if he says so - we exclude no

one;



that every AA Group may manage its own affairs as it likes, provided

surrounding groups are not harmed thereby;



that we AAs have but a single aim, the carrying of our message to the

alcoholic who still suffers;



that in consequence we cannot finance, endorse or otherwise lend the name

'Alcoholics Anonymous' to any other enterprise, however worthy;



that AA, as such, ought to remain poor, lest problems of property,

management and money divert us from our sole aim;



that we ought to be self-supporting, gladly paying our small expenses

ourselves;



that AA should remain forever non-professional, ordinary 12th Step work

never to be paid for;



that, as a Fellowship, we should never be organized but may nevertheless

create responsible Service Boards or Committees to insure us better

propagation and sponsorship and that these agencies may engage fulltime

workers for special tasks;



that our public relations ought to proceed upon the principle of attraction

rather than promotion, it being better to let our friends recommend us;



that personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and pictures ought to

be strictly maintained as our best protection, against the temptations of

power or personal ambition;



and finally, that anonymity before the general public is the spiritual key

to all our Traditions, ever reminding us we are always to place principles

before personalities, that we are actually to practice a genuine humility.

This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us; that we shall

forever live in thankful contemplation of Him who presides over us all."



Following Bill's summation, the attendees unanimously approved the

Traditions by standing vote. Notably missing from what Bill recited to the

attendees were the principles in Tradition 10 of AA having no opinion on

outside issues and not drawing the AA name into public controversy.

Nevertheless, the attendees unanimously approved what Bill W presented.

(AACOA 43, PIO 338, LOH 117-124)



1950 July 30 - Dr Bob made a brief appearance for his last talk. (GSO, PIO

339-342) Bill W later visited Dr Bob in Akron, OH for their last visit

together. Bill advised Bob that the board would likely give its consent to a

multi-year trial period for the General Service Conference. Dr Bob gave Bill

his endorsement as well. (AACOA 213-215, DBGO 325, 340, 342-343, PIO 342,

344)



On November 16, 1950 Dr Bob (age 70) co-founder of AA, died of cancer at

City Hospital in Akron, OH.



1950 - Class A trustees Leonard Harrison and Bernard B Smith resolved a

5-year conflict between Bill W and the Board on having a Conference. Smith,

who Bill later called "the architect of the service structure," chaired a

trustee's committee that recommended that Conferences be held on a trial

basis from 1951-1954 and that in 1955 it would be evaluated and a final

decision made. The recommendation was approved at the Board's Fall meeting.

(AACOA 209-212, PIO 344)


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[Corrected version]



The 1951 trial Conference took place from April 20-22, 1951. 37 US and

Canadian delegates (half the planned number) convened at the Commodore Hotel

in NYC as the first Conference Panel. Bernard B Smith presided. 15 Trustees

and various staff members from the NY Office and Grapevine Office joined the

Conference as voting members. The Conference unanimously recommended several

advisory actions. Among them, that AA literature should have

Conference-approval.



The 1952 trial Conference was the first Conference with all Delegates

attending. Based on a 1951 Conference advisory action recommending that AA

literature should have Conference approval, the Board formed a special

Trustees committee on literature to recommend literature items that should

be retained and future literature items that would be needed. Bill W also

reported on the many literature projects he was engaged in. The Conference

unanimously approved the Board proposals and Bill's projects (which later

resulted in publication of 6 Conference-approved books). While it did not

recommend specific advisory actions, by approving existing literature to be

retained, the Conference retroactively approved the Big Book and several

existing pamphlets, which included the long form of the Traditions.



At the 1953 trial Conference, Board Chairman Bernard B Smith reported that

the corporate name of "Works Publishing" had been changed to "Alcoholics

Anonymous Publishing." The first Conference-approved book to be distributed

under the new publishing name was the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions

(12&12). It contains the final wording of the short form of the Traditions,

as we know them today. (AACOA ix, 219, PIO 354-356) The 1953 Conference also

recommended that no policy should be declared or action taken on matters

liable to gravely affect AA as a whole unless by consent of at least 3/4 of

the members present. A mere majority should not authorize action."

(Reaffirmed in 1954)



1954 - Lillian R an actress and nightclub singer became the first of many

celebrities to break their anonymity and announce their alcoholism and

membership in AA. Her book (later movie) I'll Cry Tomorrow was a sensation.

Sadly, Lillian went on to drink again and it generated bad publicity for AA.

(GB 77, PIO 308-309)



February 2, 1954 - Bill W declined an honorary Doctor of Laws degree from

Yale U. (LOH 205, GB 69, BW-FH 201)



At the 1954 trial Conference, Board Chairman Bernard B Smith delivered an

eloquent talk. Its next to last paragraph is today highlighted in Chapter 1

of the AA Service Manual with the title "Why Do We Need A Conference?" The

actual title of his talk was "The Lost Commandment, The Dictionary and AA."

He left no doubt at all that he was firmly in favor of continuing the

Conference on a permanent basis. Among other items, the Conference

unanimously approved the corporate renaming of the "Alcoholic Foundation" to

the "General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous." The renaming took place

in October 1954.



June 26-29 and July 3, 1955 - the 5th and last trial Conference convened in

St Louis, MO. 75 Delegates unanimously recommended adoption of a permanent

Conference Charter subject to approval of the second International

Convention that would convene in St Louis on July 1. Bill W brought up the

first Conference discussion to change the Board ratio to a 2/3 majority of

alcoholics. The board ratio issue would be debated endlessly over the course

of 10 Conferences. The 1955 Conference also recommended that a plan for

selecting Class B trustees be approved. This was the first move to establish

Regions - the initial geographical groupings were called "Area A" thru "Area

E."



AA's 20th anniversary and 2nd International Convention was held in St Louis'

Kiel Auditorium from July 1-3, 1955. Estimated attendance was 3,800. Its

theme was "Coming of Age." On the final day of the Convention, Bill W made

some introductory remarks and presented a resolution to the attendees, the

heart of which read: "BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED: That the General Service

Conference of Alcoholics Anonymous should become, as of this date July 3,

1955 the guardian of the Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the perpetuator

of the World Services of our Society, the voice of the group conscience of

our entire Fellowship and the sole successors to its co-founders, Dr Bob and

Bill." It was unanimously approved by the attendees.


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[Corrected version]



The 1955 approval of the Conference also extended to a new publication

titled "The Third Legacy Manual of World Service as Proposed by Bill" the

forerunner of today's "AA Service Manual" both of which contain the

Conference Charter. The Conference Charter has 12 Articles, the 12th of

which is also called "The General Warranties of the Conference." The six

Warrantees in Article 12 are a condensed version of the Traditions to ensure

that the Conference always functions in the spirit of the Traditions. In

1962, the Warranties also formed Concept 12 of the Twelve Concepts for World

Service.



The second edition Big Book was introduced at the 1955 international

Convention at a retail price of $4.50 ($33 today). It contained a new

appendix with the short and long form of the Traditions. However, it

mistakenly listed the short form version published in the November 1949

Grapevine instead of the version published in the 12&12 in 1953. The error

was not fully corrected until the sixth printing in 1963. (AACOA 220-227,

PIO 354, 357)



At the 1956 Conference Bill W gave a talk on the rights of "Petition,

Appeal, Participation and Decision" describing them as "four principles that

might someday permeate all of AA's services." They later became key

principles of the 12 Concepts for World Service, specifically Concepts 3, 4,

5 and 6. They would also be called "traditional rights" in the Concepts and

lead some to later call the Twelve Concepts "AA's Bill of Rights." (SM 68)



The 1957 Conference approved a new set of "BYLAWS of the General Service

Board" written by Bernard B Smith. They are today contained in the "AA

Service Manual" as Appendix E. The 1957 Conference also approved publication

of "AA Comes of Age." Guised as a 3-day diary of the 1955 Convention, it is

in fact a definitive history of AA up to 1955. The Conference further

recommended that no change in Article 12 of the Conference Charter or in AA

Tradition or in the 12 Steps may be made with less than the written consent

of three fourths (or 75%) of AA groups.



The 1958 Conference approved removing the word "honest" from the term

"honest desire to stop drinking" in the AA Preamble. AA legend sometimes

erroneously states that the word "honest" was removed from Tradition 3.

Neither the long nor the short form of Tradition 3 ever contained the word

"honest." The term "honest desire to stop drinking" is from the Foreword to

the first edition Big Book. It also led to changing the wording of the AA

Preamble from "AA has no dues or fees" to "There are no dues or fees for AA

membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions." The

changes were approved by the General Service Board in the summer of 1958

(Best of the Grapevine, vol.1, 274-275)



The 1959 Conference voted to change the corporate name "Alcoholics Anonymous

Publishing" to "Alcoholics Anonymous World Services (AAWS)." The Board

approved the name change in October 1960.



1960 April -, Bill W declined the opportunity to be on the cover of Time

magazine. (BW-FH 201)



At the1960 Conference Bill W announced that for the prior 3 years, he had

worked on codifying principles and developing essays for the structure of

the Third Legacy of Service. The principles were announced as the Twelve

Concepts for World Service. The Board adopted a policy that: "The Board

believes that AA members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of

a member even after his death, but that in each situation the final decision

must rest with the family."



The 1962 Conference unanimously approved Bill W's manuscript titled "Twelve

Concepts for World Service." The Conference recommended that the manuscript

be distributed initially as a supplement to, and eventually as an integral

part of, the Third Legacy Manual



The 1963 Conference approved a multi-state grouping plan recommended by 1962

Conference that organized the US into six geographical Regions. Regional

Trustees would be elected to the Board as Class B (or alcoholic) Trustees

(AACOA x).



December 1964 - Bill W enthusiastically embraced a campaign to promote

vitamin B3 (niacin or nicotinic acid) therapy and created Traditions issues

within the Fellowship. (PIO 388-390)



The 1966 Conference approved a restructuring plan proposed by the Board in

1965, which changed the Board ratio to 14 alcoholic and 7 non-alcoholic

Trustees. This ended Bill W's 10-year campaign to have alcoholics make up a

2/3 majority of the Board. The number of Regional Trustees was also

increased from six to eight (six from the US and two from Canada).



The Board report accepted by the 1967 Conference recommended that "to insure

separation of AA from non-AA matters by establishing a procedure whereby all

inquiries pertaining to B-3 and niacin are referred directly to an office in

Pleasantville, NY in order that Bill's personal interest in these items not

involve the Fellowship." (PIO 391)



The 1968 Conference resolved that the showing of the full face of an AA

member at the level of press, TV, and films be considered a violation of the

Anonymity Tradition, even though the name is withheld. (PI)



July 1970 - AA's 35th anniversary and 5th Int'l Convention at Miami Beach,

FL. Bill W appeared on Sunday morning for what proved to be his last public

appearance and talk. Bill's health had steadily weakened due to emphysema.

He was confined to a wheel chair and required the administration of oxygen.

(AACOA xi, NG 145-146)



Bill W (age 75) co-founder of AA, 36 years sober, died at Miami Beach, FL on

January 24, 1971. Three months after his death, the 1971 Conference

recommended that the short form of the Twelve Concepts be approved.



1974 - In order to maintain subscriber's anonymity, the legal name of The AA

Grapevine was changed to "Box 1980" to comply with postal regulation

requiring the corporate name of an organization be placed on official

envelopes and on the magazine itself. (1989 Conference-FR 24)



The 1976 Conference approved publication of the third edition Big Book. It

also expanded a provision of Article 3 of the Conference Charter that any

change to the Steps, Traditions or six Warranties of Article 12 of the

Conference Charter, would require written approval of 75% of the registered

AA Groups known to General Service Offices around the world. This advisory

action makes any proposed change to the Steps, Traditions and Warranties a

virtual impossibility (even so much as adding or removing a comma).



The 1988 Conference approved the AA Grapevine publication of "The Language

of the Heart." It contains the Traditions essays Bill W wrote during the

1940s. It also contains many memorial and historical articles. The 1988

Conference also recommended that the 1971 Conference Action be reaffirmed

that: "AA members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of a

member even after his death, but in each situation the final decision must

rest with the family." Further, the AA Archives continue to protect the

anonymity of deceased AA members as well as other members.


0 -1 0 0
5525 edgarc@aol.com
Who wrote the Big Book story Me an Alcoholic? Who wrote the Big Book story Me an Alcoholic? 2/12/2009 12:39:00 PM


Any idea about who the author was of the

"Me an Alcoholic?" Big Book story ???



Nancy Olson's reliable reference simply says

author unknown, but the story reads like he's

someone we should have heard of . . . .



Edgar C. Sarasota, Florida



- - - -



From the moderator:



Nancy Olson's account does give a lot of

detailed information about this person:



http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm



To give a few excerpts:



Me an Alcoholic?

2nd edition p. 419, 3rd edition p. 432,

4th edition p. 382

Author Unknown



This author's date of sobriety is believed to

be November 1947.



He was a father, husband, homeowner, athlete,

artist, musician, author, editor, aircraft

pilot, and world traveler. He was listed in

"Who's Who in America." He had been successful

in the publishing business, and his opinions

were quoted in "Time" and "Newsweek" with

pictures, and he addressed the public by radio

and television.



In A.A. he found the power he needed. In the

seven years since he had come to A.A. he had

not had a drink.



He still had some hell to go through. His

tower of worldly success collapsed, his

alcoholic associates fired him, took control,

and ran the enterprise into bankruptcy. His

alcoholic wife took up with someone else and

divorced him, taking with her all his

remaining property.



But the most terrible blow was when his

sixteen-year-old son was tragically killed.



Some wonderful things had happened, too. His

new wife and he didn't own any property to

speak of and the flashy successes of another

day were gone. But they had a baby "who,

if you'll pardon a little post-alcoholic

sentimentality, is right out of Heaven."



GFC


0 -1 0 0
5526 stuboymooreman81
Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel 2/17/2009 6:35:00 AM


Hello all, Stuart from Barking Big Book study.



On p. 154 of the Big Book, Bill is in the

lobby of the Mayflower Hotel in Akron, "almost

broke" and "wondering how his bill was to be

paid."



I was wondering how he did obtain the money

to pay his hotel bill and so forth.



Thanks a lot,

Stuart


0 -1 0 0
5527 terry walton
Is the 3rd Step Prayer based on any earlier prayer? Is the 3rd Step Prayer based on any earlier prayer? 2/18/2009 8:42:00 AM


On page 63 of the Big Bood, we read what is

commonly referred to as the 3rd step prayer:



"God, I offer myself to Thee -- to build with

me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me

of the bondage of self, that I may better do

Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that

victory over them may bear witness to those

I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy

Way of life. May I do Thy will always!"



Is this a prayer which was originally written

by some other author? Do we know who that

earlier author was? Can it be found in print

in some pre-AA written source?



Or was it based at least in part, on some

traditional prayer? If so, does anyone have

a history of the development of this prayer?



"Decision" is often referred to in Oxford

Group books. Does the wording of this prayer

in the Big Book reflect any known Oxford Group

prayers?


0 -1 0 0
5528 Robert Stonebraker
Calvary Mission - Calvary House Calvary Mission - Calvary House 2/19/2009 2:18:00 PM


I would like to know the exact address of the

Calvary Mission which was on East 23rd Street.



Also the same for the Calvary House (across

the street from the Calvary Church).



Photos would be much appreciated. My email

address is



rstonebraker212@comcast.net

(rstonebraker212 at comcast.net)



Thanks in advance,



Bob S.


0 -1 0 0
5529 Robert Stonebraker
RE: Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel 2/21/2009 1:07:00 AM


How Bill Wilson's hotel bill was paid? A

possible answer could lie in the fact that

Bill received living expenses from the firm

of Baer and Company who sent Bill to Akron

to attempt a take-over of the Akron National

Rubber Company. Pass It On, p. 135, third

full paragraph: "He had little money, but

they promised to support his efforts."



Apparently they did, throughout that entire

summer; page 42 of Not God, first full

paragraph, states: "Early in September, Bill

Wilson's proxy battle met another apparent

defeat. His sponsors soured on projects

continuing costs, and Bill departed for New

York."



Of course, one wonders whether Henrietta

Seiberling might have paid it for him before

he moved to the Portage Lodge that month.



Bob S.



- - - -



stuboymooreman81

Subject: Paying his bill at the Mayflower Hotel



Hello all, Stuart from Barking Big Book study.



On p. 154 of the Big Book, Bill is in the

lobby of the Mayflower Hotel in Akron, "almost

broke" and "wondering how his bill was to be

paid."



I was wondering how he did obtain the money

to pay his hotel bill and so forth.



Thanks a lot,

Stuart


0 -1 0 0
5530 corafinch
Re: Calvary Mission - Calvary House Calvary Mission - Calvary House 2/21/2009 4:49:00 AM


"Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>

wrote:



> I would like to know the exact address of the

> Calvary Mission which was on East 23rd Street.



In Helen Shoemaker's biography of her

husband (I Stand By the Door: The Life of

Sam Shoemaker), the address is given as

246 East 23rd Street (page 253). When

Shoemaker arrived it was an unused chapel.



> Also the same for the Calvary House (across

> the street from the Calvary Church).



According to the same book, page 89, Calvary

House was built on the site of an old rectory

at 103 East 21st Street. Have you checked with

the parish itself for pictures?



Cora


0 -1 0 0
5531 ryantfowler@rocketmail.com
Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guilded meditation Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guilded meditation 2/16/2009 2:01:00 AM


Does anyone know what Bill Wilson's meditation

practices were like, especially toward the end

of his life? Also, does anyone know when

guided meditation meetings were first held?



- - - -



From the moderator:



http://hindsfoot.org/medit11.doc



"Twelve-Step Meditation in the A.A. Big Book

and the 12 & 12"



will give you an intro to a lot of this.



Among other things, this article describes

how Bill W. himself talked about the use of

guided imagery on page 100 of the 12 + 12.



The sections at the end of the article talk

about:



Quiet Time



Jacobson’s method of progressive relaxation

(VERY effective, and too little known and

used in AA)



Emmet Fox, The Golden Key

(plus Fox's method of reciting a mantra

to quiet and calm the soul)



Glenn C.


0 -1 0 0
5532 ryantfowler@rocketmail.com
Bill Wilson lived with Ernest Holmes for a while? Bill Wilson lived with Ernest Holmes for a while? 2/16/2009 1:57:00 AM


I have come to understand that Bill Wilson

was friends with Ernest Holmes. Also that

Bill Wilson lived with Ernest Holmes for

a while. Does anyone know when? And for

how long he lived there?



Ryan



- - - -



From the moderator:



Ernest Holmes doesn't show up, under either

the E's or the H's, on the list of names at

http://silkworth.net/aahistory_names/names.html



The name Ernest Holmes also does not show

up in the indices to Pass It On, AA Comes

of Age, or Not-God.



- - - -



But a Google search showed that claims have

been made about a connection between Ernest

Holmes and Bill W. by people who are involved

in New Thought and New Age spirituality:



http://improveourconsciouscontact.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-question-by-gail-de\

witt.html


"New Thought principles are very similar to

AA principles. Some research by ministers and

practitioners reveals that Bill W and Ernest

Holmes, the founder of Science of Mind knew

each other and spent time together when

creating the programs I so love today."



http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sp-bishopspong&msg=3657.45

"Bill W and Ernest Holmes, the Founder of the

Science of Mind philosophy (Religious Science)

were good friends and often traded concepts

and socialized together. No wonder that many

Science of Mind ideas are in AA and visa versa."



- - - -



The only Ernest Holmes whom I know about

lived from 1887-1960 and was the founder of

a movement known as Religious Science. He

was an ordained Divine Science minister.

In 1914, at the age of 25, Ernest moved to

Venice, California. On October 23, 1927,

in Los Angeles, he was married to widowed

Hazel Durkee Foster. They were to be

inseparable companions for thirty years.

In 1926 his book "Science of Mind" was

published and the Institute of Religious

Science was established. By 1930, Dr. Holmes

was speaking to overflow audiences on Sunday

mornings at the Ebell Theatre in Los Angeles.

He had a live radio program on CBS. Soon

thereafter the first branch of Religious

Science opened in Hollywood under the

leadership of Dr. Robert Bitzer. This was

the start of a worldwide movement which has

made the teaching and practice of Science of

Mind universally known. In 1953, the

Institute became the Church of Religious

Science. In 1967, it acquired its present-day

title, United Church of Religious Science,

with member churches throughout the world.



- - - -



So was there any direct link between Bill W.

and the Ernest Holmes in California who

founded Religious Science? Or is this just

myth and legend?



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5533 Robert Stonebraker
Where did Ebby reside during the winter of 1935/36? Where did Ebby reside during the winter of 1935/36? 2/21/2009 6:14:00 PM


Did Ebby -- being who he was, "Edwin

Throckmorton Thacher, the brother of the

Mayor of Albany, New York" -- really live,

eat and sleep in the Calvary Mission --

or was he kept in the much nicer Calvary

Parish House?



Bob S.



P.S. There is a picture of the Calvary

Church Parish House and Mission on the

site below - thanks Art!



http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Indyfourthdimension



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Robert Stonebraker

212 SW 18th Street

Richmond, IN 47347

(765) 935-0130


0 -1 0 0
5534 Arthur S
Re: Calvary Mission - Calvary House Calvary Mission - Calvary House 2/22/2009 12:04:00 PM


Google search (or some other search) can

provide good info:



The current Calvary Episcopal Church address is:



237 Park Avenue South at 21st Street

New York, N.Y. 10010



http://www.nycago.org/Organs/NYC/html/CalvaryEpis.html



Graphic of church location



http://stgeorgesnyc.dioceseny.org/about/directions.php



A history note about Bill W and Sam shoemaker



http://stgeorgesnyc.dioceseny.org/about/history.php



Calvary House is adjacent to Calvary Episcopal

Church - not across the street from it - the

building faces Gramercy Park.



The photo at the link below shows Calvary House

with Calvary Church to its left.



http://www.materialreligion.org/objects/may97obj.html



Cheers

Arthur


0 -1 0 0
5535 Peter Tippett
DR. BOB against the use of vulgar lanquage DR. BOB against the use of vulgar lanquage 2/22/2009 7:48:00 PM


We had a question about Bill W. commenting on

the use of foul language at meetings.



Dr. Bob had a comment on that issue, see the

last paragraph on page 224 of "Dr. Bob and

the good Oldtimers":



"While Dr. Bob's remarks were usually kind,

Dan K. (who had been one of Doc's many patients

at St. Thomas Hospital) noted that if a man

was a phony, he would tell the man so. "And

if he was sitting at a meeting and a man

used bad language, Dr. Bob would say, "You

have a very good lead young man, but it

would be more effective if you cleaned it

up a bit."



Also, page 298 refers to "the language of

the gutter."

 

   Pete Tippett


0 -1 0 0
5536 tigereaz
Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only? Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only? 2/16/2009 5:48:00 PM


Bob and Bill received a stipend from the sale

of the BB ... but the proceeds now go to the

New York GSO.



The stipend was then and is now calculated

only on domestic sales of the books, is that

correct?



Thanks

Roger P


0 -1 0 0
5537 Arthur S
RE: Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only? Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only? 2/23/2009 9:58:00 PM


Roger:



The history of royalties is a rather long and

complicated one.



Bill and Dr Bob received royalties on the

Big Book. After Dr Bob's death Bill's royalty

agreement was modified a number of times to

grant him royalties on the Big Book, 12&12,

AA Comes of Age and The AA Way of Life

(later renamed to AS Bill sees It).



Royalties are calculated on sales in the US

and Canada. I believe there is only one

beneficiary left receiving royalties based

on an agreement between Lois Wilson and AAWS.



Total royalties paid from 1950 to 2007 amount

to around $19 million dollars (around $37

million if adjusted for inflation and converted

to 2006 dollars).



I'm going to post a multi-part series on

royalties on AAHL - it's a much misunderstood

topic - and as noted earlier a bit of a long

story.



Cheers

Arthur



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



-----Original Message-----

Subject: Big Book royalties -- domestic sales only?



Bob and Bill received a stipend from the sale

of the BB ... but the proceeds now go to the

New York GSO.



The stipend was then and is now calculated

only on domestic sales of the books, is that

correct?



Thanks

Roger P


0 -1 0 0
5538 Glenn Chesnut
Jim Blair will be having surgery Jim Blair will be having surgery 2/23/2009 10:06:00 PM


"James Blair"

<jblair@videotron.ca>

(jblair at videotron.ca)



is going into the hospital for surgery now,

here at the beginning of this week.



He has been with us ever since the web group

first began. He is one of the handful of key

people whose work turned this web group into

one of the best and most thorough historical

sources around on early AA history.



Please let us all give him our prayers.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)

 


0 -1 0 0
5539 Baileygc23@aol.com
Bill W quote: Our quarrels have not hurt us .... Bill W quote: Our quarrels have not hurt us .... 2/22/2009 5:22:00 PM


Bill W. addressed one convention and said,

'Our quarrels have not hurt us one bit.'



Can anyone tell me which convention it was,

and where I can get a copy of his entire

address to that convention?


0 -1 0 0
5540 Glenn Chesnut
Part 1 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians Part 1 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians 2/24/2009 12:38:00 PM


From: James Blair <jblair@videotron.ca> 

(jblair at videotron.ca)



Part 1 of 3: Milton A. Maxwell,

"The Washingtonian Movement"



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Quarterly Journal of Studies On Alcohol,

Vol.11,410-452,1950



THE WASHINGTONIAN MOVEMENT



By Milton A. Maxwell, Ph.D.



Assistant Professor of Sociology

State College of Washington, Pullman, Washington



INTRODUCTION



Certain similarities between the Washingtonian movement of the nineteenth

century and the present day fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous have been

commented upon by a number of observers. In view of this resemblance there is

more than historical interest in an account of the first movement in the United

States which brought about a large-scale rehabilitation of alcoholics. The

phenomenal rise and spread of the Washingtonian movement throughout the land in

the early 1940's was the occasion of much discussion, exciting a deep interest.

The cause of its equally rapid decline have been a subject of much speculation

and are still of concern to the members of Alcoholics Anonymous who may wonder

whether or not their movement is destined to a similar fate. This article,

therefore, will present not merely a description and history of the movement but

also an analysis of the similarities and differences between the Washingtonians

and Alcoholics Anonymous.



Since the Washingtonian movement is so intimately linked to the larger

temperance movement, it may be well to recall the developments which preceded

1840. Before the 1830's, "temperance" was hardly a popular cause. Even in 1812,

when Lyman Beecher proposed to his fellow Congregational ministers that they

formulate a program for combating intemperance, "... the regular committee

reported that 'after faithful and prayerful inquiry' it was convinced that

nothing could be done to check the growth of intemperance..."(1). The custom of

serving liquor at ecclesiastical meetings probably influenced the outcome of

this "prayerful inquiry." But Lyman Beecher was not to be stopped. He headed a

new committee that recommended the following steps:



.... that district assemblies abstain from the use of ardent spirits (not wine)

at ecclesiastical meetings, that members of churches abstain from unlawful

vending or purchase (not from lawful vending and purchase) of liquor, that

farmers, mechanics and manufacturers substitute monetary compensation for the

ration of spirits, that voluntary associations aid the civil magistrates to

enforce the laws, and that the pamphlet of Dr. Rush (2) be printed and

circulated (1).The fact that these proposals were regarded as radical by the

custodians of the New England conscience is a sufficient clue to the state of

public opinion in 1812.



It was not until 1825 that Lyman Beecher preached his famous Six Sermons (3), in

which he defined intemperance not merely as drunkenness but as the "daily use of

ardent spirits." In 1826, in Boston, Beecher and Justin Edwards spearheaded the

founding of the first national society, "The American Society for the Promotion

of Temperance" (American Temperance Society) which sought, according to its

constitution, "...to produce such a change of public sentiment, and such a

renovation of the habits of individuals and the customs of the community, that

in the end temperance, with all its attendant blessings, may universally

prevail(4)."



The temperance movement began to take hold. In 1829 there were about 1,000

societies with a membership of approximately 100,000. By 1834 there were 5,000

local societies claiming 11,000,000 members, a gain of 500 per cent in 5 years.

A temperance press had been established. Effective literature had emerged.

Politicians were taking notice. In 1836 the American Temperance Society was

merged into the new and more inclusive "American Temperance Union," which

decided to take the stand of "total abstinence from all that can intoxicate(5)."



This step required an entirely new orientation. It is therefore not surprising

that sone 2,000 societies and countless individuals were not ready to go along.

Many wealthy contributors, unwilling to forgo wine, withdrew their support. Some

leaders were discouraged by the resistance to the new pledge and became

inactive. Various controversial issues added to the dissension. The movement

fell upon lean years. Its leaders, in 1840, were wondering what could be done to

restore the momentum of the years preceding 1836. Their effort were groping and

limited.



As for the alcoholic, it was the prevailing opinion, up to 1840, that nothing

could be done to help him. Occasionally a "drunkard" did "reform," but this did

not erase the general pessimism as to the possibility of rehabilitating

drunkards. Since alcohol was held to be the "cause" of alcoholism, the

temperance movement was aimed solely at keeping the nonalcoholic from becoming

an alcoholic. This implied indifference to the alcoholic was epitomized by

Justin Edwards in 1822: "Keep the temperate people temperate; the drunkards will

soon die, and the land be free(6)."



Thus the stage was set for the emergence of the Washingtonian movement.



THE BALTIMORE ORIGINS



One Thursday evening, April 2, 1840, six friends were drinking, as they were

wont to do almost every evening, in Chasels Tavern, on Liberty Street, in

Baltimore. They were William K. Mitchell, a tailor; John F. Hoss, a carpenter;

David Anderson and George Steers, both blacksmiths; James McCurley, a

coachmaker; and Archibald Campbell, a silversmith(7). Their conversation turned

to the temperance lecture which was to be given that evening by a visiting

lecturer, the Rev. Matthew Hale Smith. In a spirit of fun it was proposed that

some of them go to hear the lecture and report back. Four of them went and,

after their return, all discussed the lecture.



... one of their company remarked that, "after all, temperance is a good thing."

"0," said the host, "they're all a parcel of hypocrites." "O yes," replied

McCurley, "I'll be bound for you; it's your interest to cry them down, anyhow."

"I'll tell you what, boys," says Steers, "Let's form a society and make Bill

Mitchell president.".. The idea seemed to take wonderfully; and the more they

laughed and talked it over, the more they were pleased with it(8).



On Sunday, April 5, while the six were strolling and drinking, the suggestion

crystallized into a decision to quit drinking and to organize a total abstinence

society. It was agreed that Mitchell should be the president; Campbell the

vice-president; Hoss, the secretary; McCurley, the treasurer; and Steers and

Anderson, the standing committee. The membership fee was to be twenty-five

cents; the monthly dues, 12½ cents. The proposal that they name the society in

honour of Thomas Jefferson was finally rejected and it was decided that the

president and the secretary, since they were to be the committee to draft the

constitution, should also decide upon the name. It was agreed that each man

should bring a man to the next meeting. And it was left to the president to

compose the pledge which they would all sign the next day. The pledge was

formulated by Mitchell as follows:



"We whose names are annexed, desirous of forming a society for our mutual

benefit, and to guard against a pernicious practice which is injurious to our

health, standing, and families, do pledge ourselves as gentlemen that we will

not drink any spirituous or malt liquors, wine or cider."



He went with it, about nine o'clock, to Anderson's house and found him still in

bed, sick from the effects of his Sunday adventure. He rose, however, dressed

himself, and after hearing the pledge read, went down to his shop for pen and

ink, and there did himself the honour of being the first man who signed the

Washington pledge. After obtaining the names of the other four, the worthy

president finished this noble achievement by adding his own(8).



The name, "Washington Temperance Society, 11 was selected in honour of George

Washington. Two new members were brought to the second meeting. Strangely

enough, they continued to meet for a number of weeks at their accustomed place

in Chase's Tavern. When the tavern owner's wife objected to the increasing loss

of their best customers, Mitchell's wife suggested that they meet in their home.

This they did until the group grew too large, whereupon they moved to a

carpenter's shop on Little Sharp Street. Eventually, they rented a hall of their

own.



As they grew in membership they faced the problem of making their weekly

meetings interesting. Their resourceful president made the suggestion that each

member relate his own experience. He started off with his story of 15 years of

excessive drinking, adding his reactions to his newly gained freedom. Others

followed suit. This procedure proved to be so interesting and effective that it

became a permanent feature of their programs. Interest and membership mounted.



In November the society resolved to try a public meeting in which Mitchell and

others would tell their personal experiences. The first such meeting, held on

November 19, 1840, in the Masonic Hall on St. Paul Street, was a decided

success. Not only did it bring in additional members but it also called the

movement to the interested attention of the people of Baltimore. It was decided

to repeat these public meetings about once a month in addition to the regular

weekly meetings of the society.



John Zug, a citizen of Baltimore who probably had his interest aroused by the

first public meeting, made further inquiry and, on December 12, 1840, wrote a

letter to the Rev. John Marsh, executive secretary of the American Temperance

Union, in New York City, informing him of the new society in Baltimore. In it he

told about the growth of the group:



These half a dozen men immediately interested themselves to persuade their old

bottle-companions to unite with them, and they in a short time numbered nearly

one hundred members, a majority of whom were reformed drunkards. By their

unprecedented exertions from the beginning, they have been growing in numbers,

extending their influence, and increasing in interest, until now they number

about three hundred members, upwards of two hundred of whom are reformed

drunkards - reformed, too, within the last eight months. Many of these had been

drunkards of many years' standing, - notorious for their dissipation. indeed,

the society has done wonders in the reformation of scores whose friends and the

community had despaired of long since(9).



So rapidly did the society grow during the following months that on the first

anniversary of the society, April 5, 1841, there were about 1,000 reformed

drunkards and 5,000 other members and friends in the parade to celebrate the

occasion. This demonstration made a deep impression upon the 40,000 or so

Baltimoreans who witnessed the event.



Additional information on the pattern of activities which made this growth

possible, and on the components of the therapeutic program which made the

reformation of alcoholics possible in the first place, is given in the writings

of contemporary observers. John Zug, in his first letter to John Marsh, included

the following description:



The interest connected with this society is maintained by the continued active

exertions of its members, the peculiar character of their operations and the

frequency of their meetings. The whole society is considered a "grand committee

of the whole," each member exerting himself, from week to week, and from day to

day, as far as possible, to persuade his friends to adopt the only safe course,

total abstinence; or at least to accompany him to the next meeting of the

"Washington Temperance Society." It is a motto of their energetic and worthy

President, in urging the attendance of the members at the stated meetings, "Let

every man be present, and every man bring with him a man."



They have rented a public hall in which they meet every Monday night. At these

weekly meetings, after their regular business is transacted, the several members

rise promiscuously and state their temperance experience for each other' a

warning, instruction, and encouragement. After this, any persons present wishing

to unite with them are invited forward to sign the Constitution and Pledge(9).



Christian Keener, the editor of the Maryland Herald, made these further

first-hand observations:



These men spared neither their money nor their time in carrying out the

principles which they had espoused. Many a poor fellow who from the effect of

liquor had become a burden to his family and himself was fed and clothed by

them, and won by kindness to reform his life; even more than this, they have

supported the families of those who they had induced to join with them, until

the husband and father had procured work, and was able to support them with his

own hands.



The peculiar characteristics of this great reform are first, a total abstinence

pledge .... Secondly, the telling of others what they know from experience of

the evils of intemperance, and the good which they feel to result from entire

abstinence(9).



John W. Hawkins, an early member, had this to say in one of his Boston speeches:



Drunkard! Come up here! you can reform. I met a gentleman this morning who

reformed four weeks ago, rejoicing in his reformation; he brought a man with him

who took the pledge and this man brought two others. This is the way we do the

business up in Baltimore. We reformed drunkards are a Committee of the Whole on

the State of the Union. We are all missionaries. We don't slight the drunkard;

we love him, we nurse him, as a mother does her infant learning to walk(10).



Christian Keener, in another communication, summed up the work as follows,

making at the same time a comparison with the operations of the regular

temperance societies:



The great advantage of the Washington Temperance Society has been this; they

have reached hundreds of men that would not come out to our churches, nor even

temperance meetings; they go to their old companions and drag them, not by

force, but by friendly consideration of duty, and a sense of self-respect, into

their ranks, and watch over them with the solicitude of friends and

brothers...(9).



Such was the character of the original Baltimore "Washington Temperance

Society."



THE SPREAD OF THE MOVEMENT



A phenomenon like this could not be confined to Baltimore, for the Washington

men had it in their power to meet many pressing needs. First of all, there were

the drunkards in need of reclamation - a need long ignored because the opinion

prevailed that there was no hope for them. The meeting of this need partook of

the miraculous. Secondly, there was the overwhelming drive on the part of the

reformed men to carry their message of hope to other victims of drink - spilling

over into a desire to prevent such suffering by winning those not addicted to

certain sobriety in total abstinence. Finally, there were the needs of the

temperance leaders. Set back by the 1836 decision to put temperance on a total

abstinence basis, they needed a convincing argument for total abstinence as well

as some effective means of rekindling enthusiasm for their cause. The Washington

men were the answer to these needs, for what could be a better argument for

total abstinence than its apparent power to reclaim even the confirmed drunkard;

and what could excite more interest than the personally told experiences of

reformed drunkards?



The first recorded activity outside of Baltimore was the speaking of John H.W.

Hawkins, in February 1841, to the delegates of the Maryland State Temperance

Society, meeting in Annapolis, and to the members of the State Legislature in

the same city.



Hawkins, who was to become the most effective spokesman of the movement, had

joined the Washington Temperance Society on June 14, 1840, after more than 20

years of excessive drinking. Born in Baltimore on September 28, 1797, he was

apprenticed at an early age to a hatmaker. During this apprenticeship he

developed a dependence on alcohol which was increased during 3 years in the

frontier communities of the West. His religious conversion at the age of 18 did

not eradicate this craving. Resuming his trade in Baltimore, he battled in vain

against his addiction. The panic of 1937 left him unemployed, reducing him to a

pauper on public relief. Guilt and remorse over his family's destitution only

intensified his alcoholism. His own account of his last drinking days and his

reclamation, as given in his first New York talk, are preserved for us:



"Never," said he, "shall I forget the 12th of June last. The first two weeks in

June I averaged - it is a cross to acknowledge it - as much as a quart and a

pint a day. That morning I was miserable beyond conception, and was hesitating

whether to live or die. My little daughter came to my bed and said, II hope you

won't send me for any more whiskey today.' I told her to go out of the room. She

went weeping. I wounded her sorely, though I had made up my mind I would drink

no more. I suffered all the horrors of the pit that day, but my wife supported

me. She said, "Hold on, hold on. I Next day I felt better. Monday I wanted to go

down and see my old associates who had joined the Washington Society. I went and

signed. I felt like a free man. What was I now to do to regain my character? My

friends took me by the hand. They encouraged me. They did right. If there is a

man on earth who deserves the sympathy of the world it is the poor drunkard; he

is poisoned, cast out, knows not what to do, and must be helped or be lost...

(8).



"It did not take his associates long to discover that he had the qualities of a

leader. A splendid physique and commanding presence, combined with a gift for

extemporaneous speaking, made him an ideal lecturer.(l)" It is not surprising,

therefore, that Hawkins was selected to speak before the Maryland State

Temperance Society and the State Legislature. Christian Keener left an

eyewitness report of the latter occasion which helps to explain Hawkins' appeal:



.... He commenced his speech by letting them know that he stood before then a

reformed drunkard, less than twelve months ago taken almost out of the gutter;

and now in the Senate chamber of his native State, addressing hundreds of the

best informed and most intelligent men and women, and they listened with tearful

attention. The circumstances had an almost overpowering effect on his own

feelings and those of his audience. He is a man of plain, good common sense,

with a sincerity about him, and easy way of expressing himself, that every word

took like a point-blank shot. His was the eloquence of the heart; no effort at

display(9).



About this time, a Baltimore businessman attended a temperance meeting in New

York City. News of the Baltimore developments having already been circulated by

John Marsh through the Journal of the American Temperance Union, this visitor

was requested to give a brief history and description of the Washington Soc3ety.

A conversation with Dr. Rease, after the meeting, brought forth the suggestion

that some of the Washington men be invited to New York to relate their

experiences. This tentative proposition was taken to the Baltimore society,

accepted by them, and the arrangements completed for a delegation of five to go.

The five were William K. Mitchell, John W. Hawkins, J.F. Pollard, and two other

members, Shaw and Casey.



Their first meeting in New York was held on Tuesday, March 23, 1841, in the

Methodist Episcopal Church on Green Street. The curious throngs were not

disappointed. As in Baltimore, the experiences of these "reformed drunkards"

deeply moved and inspired all those who came to hear. Not only that, but

real-life drama was enacted at the meeting. The New York Commercial Advertiser

reported the next morning:



During the first speech a young man rose in the gallery and, though intoxicated,

begged to know if there was any hope for him; declaring his readiness to bind

himself, from that hour, to drink no more. He was invited to come down and sign

the pledge, which he did forthwith, in the presence of the audience, under deep

emotion, which seemed to be contagious, for others followed; and during each of

the speeches they continued to come forward and sign, until more than a hundred

pledges were obtained; a large portion of which were intemperate persons, some

of whom were old and grey headed. Such a scene as was beheld at the secretary's

table while they were signing, and the unaffected tears that were flowing, and

the cordial greetings of the recruits by the Baltimore delegates, was never

before witnessed in New York(8).



All the subsequent meetings were equally successful. John Marsh and the other

temperance leaders who were promoting the meetings were delighted. With no

church large enough to hold the curious crowds, it was decided to hold an open

air meeting in City Hall Park. More than 4,000 turned out for this. The

speakers, mounted on upturned rum kegs, again enthraled the crowd. This

impressive occasion was merely the climax of a triumphant campaign: about 2,000

were converted to the total abstinence pledge, including many confirmed

drunkards with whom the men worked between meetings. At this time the Washington

Temperance Society of New York was organized.



The delegation returned to Baltimore in time for the first anniversary parade

and celebration, an April 5th. With the memory of the New York success still

fresh in their minds, this must have been a very happy and meaningful occasion -

not merely the recognition of a year's achievement, but also a portent of things

to come.



Things began to happen rapidly now. While the New York meetings were in

progress, John Marsh wrote to the Boston temperance leaders about the power of

the Washingtonian appeal. Arrangements were quickly made so that within a week

after the first anniversary celebration Hawkins and William E. Wright were on

their way to Boston for a series of meetings in the churches. There were those

who doubted that Bostonians would respond as enthusiastically as New Yorkers,

but the coming of these speakers was well published and even larger crowds than

in New York greeted them. The first meeting was held on April 15, 1841. The

Daily Mail had this report the following morning:



The Odeon was filled to its utmost capacity, last evening, by a promiscuous

audience of temperance men, distillers, wholesalers and retail dealers in ardent

spirits, conformed inebriates, moderate drinkers, lovers of the social glass,

teetotallers, etc., to listen to the speeches of the famous "Reformed

Drunkards," delegates from the Washington Temperance Society of Baltimore, who

have excited such a deep interest in the cause of temperance in other

places...Mr. Hawkins of Baltimore, was the second of the "Reformed Drunkards"

introduced to the meeting. He was a man of forty-four years of age - of fine

manly form - and he said he had been more than twenty years a confirmed

inebriate. He spoke with rather more fluency, force and effect, than his

predecessor, but in the same vein of free and easy, off-hand, direct, bang-up

style; at times in a single conversational manner, then earnest and vehement,

then pathetic, then humorous - but always manly and reasonable. Mr. Hawkins

succeeded in "working up" his audience finely. Now the house was as quiet and

still as a deserted church, and anon the high dome rang with violent bursts of

laughter and applause. Now he assumed the melting mood, and pictured the scenes

of a drunkard's home, and that home his own, and fountains of generous feelings,

in many hearts, gushed forth in tears - and again, in a moment, as he related,

some ludicrous story, these tearful eyes glistened with delight, sighs changed

to hearty shouts, and long faces were convulsed with broad grins and glorious

smiles(1).

The Boston Mercantile Journal reported the same meeting in the following manner:



The exercises at the temperance meeting at the Odeon last evening possessed a

deep and thrilling interest. The hall was crowded and Messrs. Hawkins and

Wright...spoke with great eloquence and power for more than two hours, and when,

at ten o'clock, they proposed abridging somewhat they had to say, shouts of "Go

on! Go on!" were heard from all parts of the house. We believe more tears were

never shed by an audience in one evening than flowed last night...Old grey

haired men sobbed like children, and the noble and honourable bowed their heads

and wept. Three hundred and seventy-seven came forward and made "the second

declaration of independence," by pledging themselves to touch no intoxicating

drink; among them were noticed many bloated countenances, familiar as common

drunkards; and we promise them health, prosperity, honour, and happiness in the

pursuance of their new principles(9).



When even the standing room in Faneuil Hall was filled, a few evenings later,

and the crowd responded with unrestrained enthusiasm, several hundred coming

forward to sign the pledge at the close of the meeting, there was no longer any

doubt that the Washingtonian reformers had a universally potent appeal. Here was

"human interest" material par excellence. No fiction could be more exciting or

dramatic. These true-life narratives pulled at the heartstrings. They aroused

awe and wonder at the "miracle of rebirth." Formal religious beliefs had flesh

and blood put on dry bones. And, to the victim of drink, the Washingtonian

message was like a promise of life to a doomed man. It was the impossible come

true.



During these meetings, a Washington Total-Abstinence Society was formed in

Boston. Hawkins was also engaged as the paid secretary of the Massachusetts

Temperance Society, and on June 1, 1841, returned from Baltimore with his

family. Within a short space of time, he and his Boston associates succeeded in

carrying the Washingtonian movement into 160 New England towns.



On May 11, 1841, the executive committee of the American Temperance Union, on

the occasion of its anniversary meeting in New York City, paid high tribute to

the Washingtonians. In July at the national convention of the Union, at Saratoga

Springs, this praise was even more fulsome. John Marsh and many of the other

leaders saw in the Washingtonians the possibilities of a great forward advance

for the temperance movement. None of them, however, even in their most

optimistic moments, sensed the vitality that was to be manifested by the

Washingtonian movement that very summer and autumn.



Even before the Saratoga convention, two of the most famous of the many

Washingtonian deputation teams, Pollard and Wright, and Vickers and Small, had

begun extensive tours. By autumn, many teams and individuals were in the field.

From the 1842 Report of the American Temperance Union, it is possible to trace

the rapid spread of the movement throughout the country.



J.F. Pollard and W.E. Wright, both of Baltimore - the former having accompanied

Hawkins to New York, and the latter to Boston - began their work early in the

summer of 1841 in Hudson, New York. Their first efforts were discouraging, but

soon they got attention and in a few weeks nearly 3,000 of the 5,500 inhabitants

of Hudson had signed the pledge. A Hudson resident has left this account of

their type of meeting:



Some of the meeting took the air of deep religious solemnity, eyes that never

wept before were suffused...the simple tale of the ruined inebriate, interrupted

by a silence that told of emotions too big for utterance, would awaken general

sympathy, and dissolve a large portion of the audience in tears. The spell which

had bound so many seemed to dissolve under the magic eloquence of those

unlettered men. They spoke from the heart to the heart. The drunkard found

himself unexpectedly an object of interest. He was no longer an outcast. There

were some who still looked upon him as a man. A chord was reached which had long

since ceased to respond to other influences less kind in their nature...The

social principle operated with great power. A few leaders in the ranks of

intemperance having signed the pledge, it appeared to be the signal for the mass

to follow: and on they came, like a torrent sweeping everything before it. It

was for weeks the all-absorbing topic...(7).



Pollard and Wright attended the Saratoga convention and then toured through

central and western New York; and that autumn, through New Jersey and

Pennsylvania. On this tour they obtained 23,340 signatures to the pledge,

"one-fifth of which were supposed to be common drunkards"(7). Late in 1841 they

spoke in Maryland and Delaware. They moved in January 1842 into Virginia, where

they worked particularly in Richmond, Petersburg, Charlottesville and Norfolk,

pledging Negroes as well as whites.



The other famous team, Jesse Vickers and Jesse W. Small, also of Baltimore,

began their campaign in June 1841 in Pittsburgh, where "all classes, all ages,

all ranks and denominations, and both sexes, pressed every night into

overflowing churches." In a brief time 10,000 were pledged, "including a

multitude of most hopeless characters"(7). This success was followed by another

in Wheeling, from which place they proceeded to Cincinnati where Lyman Beecher,

now president of Lane Theological Seminary, had diligently prepared the way for

their coming. Large crowds turned out for the meetings and a strong Washington

society was organized which, by the end of 1841, claimed 8,000 members, 900 of

them reformed. Cincinnati became the chief centre of Washingtonianism in the

West, and Vickers and Small spent a great deal of time preparing the converts

who were to carry on the missionary work. One of these Cincinnati teams, Brown

and Porter, obtained 6,529 signatures in an 8-week campaign in the surrounding

country, 1,630 of them from "hard drinkers" and 700 from confirmed drunkards.

Another Cincinnati team, Turner and Guptill, toured western Ohio and Michigan.

On December 21, 1841, a team of three, probably including Vickers, began a

campaign in St. Louis, laying the foundation for a Washington society that

numbered 7,500 within a few months. Many communities in Kentucky, Indiana and

Illinois were also visited. It is interesting to note that on February 22, 1842,

Abraham Lincoln addressed the Washington Society of Springfield, Ill. Just how

quickly the West was cultivated by the Washingtonian missionaries, operating

chiefly out of Cincinnati, is shown by the May 1842 claims of 60,000 signatures

in Ohio, 30,000 in Kentucky, and 10,000 in Illinois. Of these, it was claimed,

"every seventh man is a reformed drunkard, and every fourth man a reformed

tippler"(7).



The intensity of this cultivation varied with time and place. How intensive it

could be is well portrayed by a citizen of Pittsburgh, in a letter to John

Marsh, in April 1842:



The work has grown in this city and vicinity...at such a rate as has defied a

registration of its triumphs with anything like statistical accuracy. ...The

most active agents and labourers in the field have been at no time able to

report the state of the work in their own entire province - the work spread us

from place to place - running in so many currents, and meeting in their way so

many others arising from other sources, or springing spontaneously in their

pathway, that no one could measure its dimensions or compass its spread. We have

kept some eight or ten missionaries in the field ever since last June, who have

toiled over every part and parcel of every adjoining country of Pennsylvania,

and spread thence into Ohio and Virginia, leaving no school house, or country

church, or little village, cross roads, forge, furnace, factory, or mills,

unvisited; holding meetings wherever two or three could be gathered together,

and organizing as many as from 20 to 30 societies in a single county...(7).



In the Boston area, Washingtonian activity was intensive from the beginning.

Within 3 months after the first Hawkins and Wright meetings, the Boston society

had this to report:



Since this society went into operation the delegating committee have sent out

two hundred and seventeen delegations to one hundred and sixty towns in

Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, and Rhode Island, with wonderful

success....Some of those towns where we have formed societies are now sending

out their delegates. The whole country is now alive to the subject...It is

acknowledged on all sides that no people like ours - although unlearned - could

create such a wonderful interest in the all absorbing cause....



There is no doubt that about 50,000 persons have signed the pledge in the

different towns that our delegates have visited. Where societies were already

formed, a more lively interest was created, - new signers obtained from those

who had been inebriates, and thus a new energy imparted...Where societies had

not before existed, new societies were formed...(8).



Ten months later, in May 1842, the Boston society had 13,000 members, had sent

260 delegations to 350 towns in New England, and had produced a number of

converts who had become effective missionaries outside of New England. Benjamin

Goodhue, in December 1841, stirred up great interest in Sag Harbour and the east

end of Long Island. A Mr. Cady, during this winter, toured North Carolina,

securing 10,000 signatures. In February 1842 Joseph J. Johnson and an unnamed

fellow Bostonian conducted successful campaigns in Mobile and New Orleans.



By May 1842 the movement had penetrated every major area of the country and was

going particularly strong in central New York and New England. The most vigorous

urban centres were Baltimore, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh,

Washington, Cincinnati and St. Louis. The city of Baltimore had 15 societies and

7,842 members. New York and vicinity had 23 societies and 16,000 members. In the

Journal of the American Temperance Union, on April 1, 1842, John Marsh wrote

enthusiastically of the New York activity: "We suppose there are not less than

fifty meetings held weekly and most of them are perfect jams. Our accessions are

numerous and often of the most hopeless characters"(9). In and around

Philadelphia, where the societies took the name of Jefferson, some 20,000

members were enrolled. In the district of Columbia there were 4,297 members, and

another 1,000 in Alexandria, Va. Later in the year Hawkins visited Washington

and was successful in reactivating the old Congressional Temperance Society and

putting it on a total abstinence basis. Congressman George N. Briggs, soon to be

Governor of Massachusetts, became president of this reorganized society.



To the list of outstanding reformed men who became effective Washingtonian

missionaries during this first year, there should be added the names of George

Haydock, Hudson, N.Y.(8,000 signatures); Col. John Wallis, Philadelphia (7,000

signatures); Thomas M. Woodruff, New York City; Abel Bishop, New Haven, Conn.;

and Joseph Hayes, Bath, Me.



During 1842 the most outstanding temperance orator of all was won to the cause.

John B. Gough, a bookbinder, was reformed. When his platform ability was

discovered, many Washingtonian societies sponsored his addresses. As his

popularity grew he became a professional free-lance lecturer; and during the

years 1843-47 travelled 6,840 miles, gaining 15,218 signatures to thepledge(11).



Another important development was the organization of women into the little

known "Martha Washington" societies. The first such society was organized "in a

church at the corner of Chrystie and Delancey Streets, New York, on May 12 of

that year [1841], through the efforts of William A. Wisdom and John W.

Oliver"(12). The constitution detailed the purpose:



Whereas, the use of all intoxicating drinks has caused, and is causing,

incalculable evils to individuals and families, and has a tendency to prostrate

all means adapted to the moral, social and eternal happiness of the whole human

family; we, the undersigned ladies of New York, feeling ourselves especially

called upon, not only to refrain from the use of all intoxicating drinks, but,

by our influence and example, to induce others to do the same, do therefore form

ourselves into an association(12).



These Martha Washington societies were organized in many places, functioning to

some extent as auxiliaries of the Washingtonian societies, but also engaged in

the actual rehabilitation of alcoholic women. In the annual Report of 1843,

there is this reference"...the Martha Washington Societies, feeding the poor,

clothing the naked, and reclaiming the intemperate of their own sex, have been

maintained, in most places, with great spirit..."(7).


0 -1 0 0
5541 Glenn Chesnut
Part 2 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians Part 2 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians 2/24/2009 12:40:00 PM


From: James Blair <jblair@videotron.ca> 

(jblair at videotron.ca)



Part 2 of 3: Milton A. Maxwell,

"The Washingtonian Movement"



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



DURATION OF THE MOVEMENT



How long the Washingtonian movement continued in full force is a difficult

question to answer. The most dramatic strides were made between the summers of

1841 and 1842, but apparently the peak of activity was reached in 1843. That

year, Gough was touring New England, and Hawkins northern and western New York

as well as sections of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. R.P. Taylor was doing

effective work in Georgia. Late that autumn Hawkins campaigned in North Carolina

and Georgia, stimulating great Washingtonian activity in that region. It was a

year of high activity, with the major portion of the work carried on, as it was

through most of the life of the movement, by numerous Washingtonians whose names

are unrecorded.

On May 28,1844, in Boston, the Washingtonians were the sponsors of , and leading

participants in, the largest temperance demonstration ever held, up to that

time, with nearly 30,000 members of various temperance organizations

participating. Governor George N. Briggs, William K. Mitchell and John B. Gough

were the leading speakers.

In the fall of 1845 Hawkins began one of his most intensive campaigns, in Ohio,

Indiana and Illinois, winding up in the spring of 1846 with very successful

meetings in New Orleans and Mobile. During this 8-month period Hawkins not only

spoke daily but also directed the work of many assistants and helped, as he

always did, to organize societies to continue the work. In much of the territory

covered by Hawkins on this campaign the Washingtonian movement was still at full

tide in 1845 and 1846. This tends to corroborate the generalization of Wooley

and Johnson that "for four years it continued to sweep the country." But in some

of the cities which had been reached by the movement in 1841, a decline had

already set in.

In New York City the Sons of Temperance, a total abstinence order which had been

founded with the help and blessing of Washingtonians, had begun, late in 1842,

to receive into its membership many Washingtonians. Slowly but increasingly it

displaced the function of the Washington societies.

In Cincinnati, in January 1845, Lyman Beecher wrote to John Marsh about the

"resurgence of the liquor tide" and of the need for a new type of temperance

appeal. He thought that "though the Washingtonians have endured and worked well,

their thunder is worn out"(13).

Fehlandt (4) states that "By 1843...interest began to wane, and soon

Washingtonianism had spent its force." It might be correct to say that the first

signs of waning interest appeared in 1843 but it is not probable that such signs

were detectable in most areas before 1844 - and in some areas not until latter.

Hence, no generalization seems to apply to the entire country.

Most significant as an index of general interest are the references to the

Washingtonian movement in the annual Reports of the executive committee of the

American Temperance Union, published in May of each year. The 1842 Report

enthusiastically details the spread of the movement. The 1843 Report reflects

continued enthusiasm. The 1844 Report notes that the movement "has continued

through its fourth year with as much interest as could be expected." The 1845

Report contains news of the crowded weekly meetings and increased success of the

Hartford, Conn., Washington Temperance Society, but there is also expressed the

feeling of John Marsh that the movement "has in a considerable measure spent its

force." In the 1846 Report the movement is referred to as "once so deeply

enlisting the sympathies." In the 1847 Report it is admitted that "The

reformation of drunkards has not, as in former years, formed a prominent part of

the year now past." The 1848 Report contains no mention of the Washingtonian

movement at all.

Hawkins, Gough and others were called Washingtonians to the end of their lives,

but there is no record, to the writer's knowledge, of organized Washingtonian

activity beyond 1847 except in the Boston area.*3* There in March 1847, the

Washingtonians of New England held a large convention. In January 1848 the

Boston Washington Society reported having 56,380 signatures since the date of

its founding in 1841. According to Harrison (8), writing in 1860, the Boston

society continued to exist and meet weekly up to 1860, at which time 70,000

signatures were claimed. In 1858 the Home for the Fallen, using Washingtonian

principles in the rehabilitation of alcoholics, was in existence in Boston.*4*

But in other parts of the country, by 1858, there were to be found references to

"the early days" when Washingtonianism swept the country.

______________________________



*3* The writer has since learned of the existence of the Washingtonian Home in

Chicago, founded in 1863 by members of the Order of Good Templars who may well

have been Washingtonians. This institution is still engaged exclusively in the

rehabilitation of alcoholics.

*4* This institution has been in continuous existence to the present time,

having undergone a number of changes in name and in policy. It is now known as

the Washington Hospital and engages in the treatment of alcoholism by

contemporary medical and social techniques.

______________________________



NUMERICAL SUCCESS



How many persons became members of the Washingtonian societies? There is no

satisfactory answer to this question. The statistics that are available are

varied, contradictory and, hence, unreliable; furthermore, they are given on two

different bases - the number who signed the total abstinence pledge, and the

number of drunkards reclaimed. Neither of these coincides with the membership of

Washingtonian societies.

Several sources(12,14) repeat the American Temperance Union estimate (7) that by

1843, 5,000,000 had signed the total abstinence pledge and were associated with

over 10,000 local societies. Since only 350,000 such signers had been claimed in

1839 (15), this would mean a gain of over 4,500,000 as a result of the

Washingtonian "pledge-signing revival." This would represent nearly one-fourth

of the total U.S. population aged 15 years and over. When it is considered, as

E.M. Jellinek has estimated, that for the population aged 15 years and older the

per capita consumption of distilled spirits decreased by only 14.3 per cent

(form 4.9 gallons) between 1840 and 1850, some doubt is thrown upon the validity

of this estimate. Marsh himself, in 1848, revised his estimate of total

abstainers downward to 4,000,000 (7). Even this number points to the probability

that a large percentage of the pledge signers were under the age of 15.

Furthermore, since the signers belonged to all kinds of temperance societies, it

is impossible to estimate what percentage, or how many, were enrolled in

Washingtonian societies.

In attempting to estimate the number of alcoholics reclaimed by the

Washingtonian movement, more difficulties are encountered. The major one is the

fact that all the societies had mixed memberships - former teetotallers (often

children), moderate drinkers, excessive drinkers, and confirmed alcoholics.

Nevertheless, estimates have been made and the claims vary from 100,000 (12) to

600,000. The latter figure, often repeated, seems to be based on the 1843 Report

(7) of the American Temperance Union, in which it stated that: "A half-million

hard drinkers often drunken, and a hundred thousand sots...may safely be

considered as having been brought to sign the total abstinence pledge within the

last two years." Wooley and Johnson (12) state: "It is commonly computed that at

least one hundred thousand common drunkards were reclaimed in the crusade and at

least three times as many common tipplers became total abstainers." This seems

to be based on Eddy (14), who in turn seems to be quoting an American Temperance

Union estimate that, by the summer of 1842, "the reformation had included at

least 100,000 common drunkards, and three times that number of tipplers who were

in a fair way to become sots."

One chief difficulty resides in the employment of an undefined terminology,

including "hard drinkers often drunken;" "confirmed drinkers;" "drunkard;"

"common drunkard;" "conformed drunkard;" "inebriate;" "sot;" "tippler;" "common

tippler;" and "tipplers in a fair way to become sots." What do these terms mean

and how were they distinguished from each other?

Ignoring the loose use of these terms, for the moment, and turning to the

percentage of reclaimed inebriates in Washingtoniansocieties, a great variety of

claims is to be noted. Eight months after its beginning the Baltimore society

claimed that two-thirds of their 300 members were reclaimed drunkards(9). At the

close of 1841 it was claimed that 100,000 pledges had been taken as a result of

Washingtonian activity, "more than one-third by confirmed drinkers"(16). But in

the statistics offered by the same source, and for the same period of time, by

the vigorous Cincinnati Washington society, only 900 (11.3 per cent) of the

8,000 members were said to have been reformed drunkards. A Battleboro, Vt.,

report stated: "We have 150 members already in our Washington Society, six or

seven hard cases." This comes to four or five per cent. Of the 42,273 pledged

members in 82 Vermont towns cited in the 1844 Report, only 518 (1.2 per cent)

were reformed drunkards probably varied greatly from community to community -

and probably varied at different times even in the same society.

Since the American Temperance Union records are the chief source of information

for later historians, some weight may be given to John Marsh's later estimate

(13) that 150,000 drunkards were permanently rescued as a result of

Washingtonian activity. But when his 1843 estimate of "A half million hard

drinkers often drunken, and a hundred thousand sots" is recalled, it is

impossible not to be suspicious of his estimates - and particularly of his use

of terms. The number may well have been less than 150,000, and it may well have

included everything from "confirmed drinkers," to "hard drinkers often drunken"

to "common drunkards" to "sots." What are the numbers of true alcoholics was, is

anyone's guess.

But if there is uncertainty concerning the number of alcoholics temporarily

helped or permanently rehabilitated - or the number of persons who became total

abstainers - there is no question that the movement made a tremendous impact.

Its results, furthermore, were not short-lived. Within the temperance there was

not only a decided gain of strength but also the opening of "the way for more

advanced thought and effort...(14)." As for the problem of alcoholism, some

permanent though limited gain resulted. Dr. T.D. Crothers, a leading

psychiatrist of his time, wrote in 1911:

The Washingtonian movement...was a great clearing house movement, breaking up

old theories and giving new ideas of the nature and character of inebriety. It

was literally a sudden and intense projection of the ideas of the moral side of

inebriety, into public thought, and while it reacted when the reform wave died

out, it served to mobilize and concentrate public attention upon the question,

of how far the inebriate could control his malady, and what efforts were needed

to enable him to live temperately. This first practical effort to settle these

questions was the beginning of the organization of lodging houses for the

members of the societies who had failed to carry out the pledges which they had

made. This was really the beginning of the hospital system of cure, and was the

first means used to give practical help to the inebriate, in a proper home, with

protection, until he was able to go out, with a degree of health and hope of

restoration (17).



ORGANIZATION AND PROCEDURE



As has been indicated, the Washingtonian movement took organized form in the

thousands of local total abstinence societies which, almost without exception,

had a mixed membership of former teetotallers and moderate drinkers as well as

inebriates of various degrees. This was the pattern set by the original

Baltimore society. A large percentage of these societies, presumably, were new

societies carrying the Washington name. Many were old societies, reorganized and

renamed. But often the work was carried on in societies already in existence,

without any change in name. Hawkins, it will be recalled, became the paid

secretary of the Massachusetts Temperance Society. Nevertheless, he was active

in the Boston Washington society. There seemed, at the time, to be no

organizational rivalry, and that must have been true in many communities

throughout the years of the movement. In Alabama, Sellers (18) states, "This

organization [Washingtonian] was never an

independent unit, but was attached to temperance societies already existing."

On the other hand, rivalry and mutual resentment between the "old" and the "new"

societies did develop in many communities. Even in Boston, in the demonstration

in which so many societies of all types participated in May 1844, the old

Massachusetts Temperance Society and the old Massachusetts Temperance Union did

not take part (1). Krout summarizes the difficulties that developed between the

Washingtonians and the older societies in many communities:

Under the compulsion of popular demand many of the old societies had employed

Washingtonian speakers to revive a waning interest, but they had been

disappointed that the new pledge-signers could seldom be persuaded to join

existing organizations. Wherever Washingtonian workers conducted campaigns, it

was necessary either to form a new society officered by reform men, or to

convert the old group into a Washingtonian abstinence society. To some who had

laboured long in temperance work...it appeared...that the Washingtonians had no

interest in the triumphs of the struggle prior to 1840. The younger movement

seemed to be unwilling to learn anything from the older. Its membership scoffed

at the methods and principles formerly held in esteem...The old leaders were

being set aside. Any Tom, Dick or Harry could direct the course of the reform.

Washingtonian "Heralds," "Standards" and "Advocates" were springing up

everywhere, and then expiring from lack of funds.

Their existence was too often marked by unpleasant controversies with other

temperance periodicals. The Washingtonians, on the other hand, charged that the

older societies refused to co-operate with them...(1).

Further evidence of this distrust and cleavage, as well as of the differences in

organization, was given in the Washingtonian Pocket Companion (19), published in

Utica, N.Y., in 1842:

Some societies make uniting with them, a virtual renunciation of all membership

with any other temperance societies...This is because the principles of the old,

and of our societies, differ so widely - and also to prevent the old societies

from subverting ours...

Some societies take none but those who have lately made, sold, or used

intoxicating liquors - others receive all except children under a certain age -

others receive even children with the consent of their parents or guardians.

Some societies omit that part of the pledge which relates to the "Making and

selling, directly or indirectly," and pledge to total abstinence from using,

only. They think it a benefit to bring the maker and vender into the society

first, and then induce them to give up their business.

In some cases, the female members of our societies act as a Benevolent Society,

within, or in co-operation and fellowship with us. In others, the ladies form

separate and distinct societies. Their names are numerous...(19).

Even though no uniformity of organization or procedure prevailed, yet a minimum

of common pattern ran throughout the movement. This might be said to be (A) the

reclamation of inebriates by "reformed drunkards" - employing the "principle of

love" and the total abstinence pledge; and (B) having reformed drunkards telling

their experiences for the dual purpose of reaching the drunkard and winning

others to the total abstinence pledge.

The Baltimore pattern, very effectively reproduced in Boston under the guidance

of Hawkins, seemed to have been the ideal pattern which the majority of

Washingtonian groups approximated in varying degrees. Since records of the

Boston operations have been preserved, the organization and procedure of that

society will be given in some detail.

The aggressive missionary work of carrying Washingtonianism into 160 New England

towns during the first 3 months of the Boston society's existence has been

noted. Of even greater interest are the details of the work with alcoholics,

during this same period, as related by Samuel F. Holbrook, the first president

of the society:

The Washington Total Abstinence Society was organized on the 25th of April,

1841. On the evening of its formation the officers elected were a president, two

vice-presidents, a corresponding secretary, and a treasurer; after which there

were chosen twenty-four gentlemen to serve as ward committee, whose duty it was

to pick up inebriates, induce them to sign the pledge of total abstinence, and

forsake all places where intoxicating drink was to be had, and also to visit the

families of the reformed and administer to their wants.

It now became necessary to have a place exclusively our own, where we could

bring the unfortunate victim of intemperance, nurse him, and converse with him,

and obtain his signature to the pledge;...[We] were led to Marlboro Chapel. We

obtained Hall No. 1 for a business and occasional lecture room, and the chapel

for a public meeting once a week. Hall No. 1 was furnished with newspapers from

various towns, as well as nearly all the publications of our own city. A table

prepared, and the seats were arranged in the form of a reading room; a fountain

of cold water and a desk containing the pledge occupied another part of the

room.

Our pledge, for the first week, had two hundred and eighteen names; and then, as

if by magic, the work commenced. And I think it is doubtful if in the annals of

history there is any record of a work of such a nature and progressing with so

much silence, and yet so sure in its advance. Surely it is the work of the

omnipotent God...

The gentlemen acting as ward committees were filled with unexampled zeal and

perseverance in the performance of their duties; leaving their own business in

order to hunt up the drunkard;...So attentive were they to this voluntary duty

that in a fortnight we had four hundred names on our pledge; families in all

directions were assisted, children sent to school decently clad, employment

obtained for the husband, the countenance of the wife assumed a cheerful and

pleasing aspect; landlords grew easy, and in fact everything relating to the

circumstances of the reformed inebriate had undergone a complete change for the

better...

The reeling drunkard is met in the street, or drawn out from some old filthy

shed, taken by the arm, spoken kindly to, invited to the hall, and with

reluctance dragged there, or carried in a carriage if not too filthy; and there

he sees himself surrounded by friends, and not what he most feared - police

officers; everyone takes him by the hand; he begins to come to and when sober

sign the pledge, and goes away a reformed man. And it does not end there. The

man takes a pledge, and from his bottle companions obtains a number of signers,

who likewise become sober men. Positively, these are facts. Now, can any human

agency alone do this? All will answer No; for we have invariably the testimony

of vast numbers of reformed men, who have spoken in public and declared they

have broken off a number of times, but have as often relapsed again: and the

reason they give for doing this is that they rely wholly on the strength of

their resolution without looking any higher; but now they feel the need of God's

assistance, which having obtained, their reform is genuine...(8).

Holbrook also made some interesting comparisons with the attitudes and methods

of the older temperance societies:

...As for reclaiming the drunkard, that was entirely out of the question; they

must and will die shortly, and now our business is to take care of the rising

generation. And when the hard working women complained of her drunken husband,

the reply was, and from all feeling of good, to, O send him to the house of

correction, or poor house, immediately, and then we will do what we can for you

and your children. Now the great difficulty was that our temperance friends

were, generally, men in higher circles of life, who would revolt at the idea of

taking a drunkard by the arm in the street and walk with him to some place where

he could be made sober and receive friendly advice. If the drunken man was

noticed at all, he was taken aside from under the horses' feet, and perhaps put

into some house and there left...But the method of reclaiming the apparently

lost inebriate, such as the Washington Total Abstinence Society has adopted,

never entered their heads; it was not thought of until our society was formed.

Then some twenty or thirty drunkards came forward and signed the total

abstinence pledge and related their experience, and this induced others to do

the same; and then the work of reform commenced in good earnest(8).

The "Auditor's Report" contains additional information on the activities of the

Boston society during its first 3 months. After reporting the receipt of

$2,537.10, one barrel of pork, four hams, and a considerable quantity of

second-hand clothing, he referred to the system they had adopted "of boarding

out single persons and assisting the inebriate and his family who had homes."

In addition to not less than one hundred and fifty persons boarded out [in

"three good boarding-houses, kept by discreet members of the society"], two

hundred and fifty families have been more or less benefited. Families the most

wretched have been made comfortable; by our exertions many families that were

scattered have been reunited; fathers, sons, and brothers have been taken from

the houses of correction and industry, from the dram shops, and from the lowest

places of degradation, restored and brought back again under the same roof, made

happy, industrious, and temperate...Our society at present numbers about 4,000

members...[about] one third...heads of families...(8).

Harrisson rounds out the first 2 years' history of the Boston society:

For the space of two years after its organization the meetings of the society

were held in Marlboro' Chappel, while the lodging rooms connected therewith were

located in Graphic Court, opposite Franklin Street. From there they removed to

No. 75 Court Street...They also fitted up rooms under their hall for the

temporary accommodations of reformed, or rather, reforming men. They soon again

removed to rooms which they procured and fitted up in Broomfield Street...

During the first two years of its existence the officers and members of the

society held weekly meetings in six different localities in the city of Boston,

namely: in North Bennett Street, Milton Street, Washington Place, East Street,

Common Street, and Hull Street...(8).

Another glimpse of the activities of this society, 4 years after its founding,

is provided in a memorial petition presented to the State Legislature in 1845:

....From the period of its formation to the present time, it has sustained a

commodious hall for holding public meetings...Large numbers of persons, in

various stages of intoxication and destitution, who have been found in the

streets and elsewhere, have been led to the Washingtonian Hall, where they have

been kindly received, and their necessary wants supplied. The amount of service

which has been rendered within the last four years, by this society, cannot be

readily appreciated. A multitude of men who, by intemperance, had been shut out

from the friendly regard of the world, found in the hall of the Washingtonians,

for the time being, a comfortable asylum; and these men departed thence to

resume their position as useful citizens. About 750 such persons have found a

temporary home at Washingtonian Hall, during the year just closed, nearly all of

whom, it is believed, are now temperate and industrious members of society(8).

4 As already noted, this society reported having received 56,380 members up to

January 1848. According to Harrisson, the central meetings were held each week

uninterrupted at least to 1860. Whether an "Asylum" for inebriates was

maintained during the intervening years, the writer cannot ascertain. But in

1858 a "home for the Fallen," representing perhaps a renewal of activities, was

being maintained on Franklin Place. It was moved to 36 Charles Street in 1860

and renamed the "Washington Home." Conducted by a separate "executive

committee," it nevertheless was operating on Washingtonian principles.

So much for the Boston society. Apparently Hawkins and his associates had laid a

more sound foundation than was achieved in many communities.

As for organization and procedures elsewhere, perhaps the best clues are given

in the 1842 Washingtonian Pocket Companion (19), "Containing a Choice Collection

of Temperance Hymns, Songs, Etc.," - containing also the following directions

"For Commencing, Organizing, and Conducting the Meetings, of a Washingtonian

Total Abstinence Society."

I. The Commencement.- Wherever there are a sufficient number of drinkers, to get

up what is commonly called "a spree," there are enough to form a Society. It

only needs one or more individuals, (If an inebriate, or moderate drinker, but

resolved to reform, all the better,) to go to those persons, and to others who

make, sell or use intoxicating drinks and explain to them the principles and

measures of this great reform, and persuade them to agree to take the pledge at

a meeting to be held at some convenient time and place mutually agreed on. In

all these efforts, the utmost gentleness, and kindness, and patient

perseverance, and warm persuasion, should be used. At the meetings, appoint a

Chairman and a Secretary - if reformed inebriates, all the better. After singing

a hymn or song, let the Chairman, or other person, open the meeting by stating

its objectives - relating his experience in drinking, his past feelings,

sufferings, the woe of his family and friends, the motives and reasons that

induce him to take the present step, and appeal warmly and kindly to his

companions, friends and neighbours to aid him in it by doing likewise. The

Secretary, or other person may follow with a like experience...Other persons can

be called on to speak, until it is time to get signers to the pledge. Having

read the pledge...invite all who wish to join to rise up, (or come forward,) and

call out their names that the Secretary may take them down. Publicity and

freedom are preferable to private solicitations, whisperings, and secrecy in

giving the names...Then let the Chairman or other person, first pledge himself,

and then administer it to the rest.

After this, a hymn or song may be sung, and remarks and appeals be made, and

other names be obtained. After all have been obtained to take the pledge, let

them again rise up, and let the Chairman, or Secretary, or other person, give

them THE CHARGE - a solemn address on the nature and importance of the

obligations they have assumed and on the best mode of faithfully discharging

them. Then let a committee be appointed to draft a Constitution to be presented

at the next meeting.

II. THE ORGANIZATION. - At the next meeting, after singing, let the Constitution

be reported, and amended, if necessary, until it suits those who have taken the

pledge at and since the last meeting. Then adopt it. It should contain the

following, among the needed provisions. Preamble - A simple statement of the

prominent evils of intemperance, and of the resolution of the signers to aid in

extirpating their root. Some prefer a Parody on our National Declaration of

Independence for this purpose. Article 1 - The name of the Society, always using

the distinctive title, "Washingtonian," in that name. Article 2 - Declaring that

love, Kindness and moral suasion are your only principles and measures, and

disavowing denunciation, abuse, and harshness. Article 3 - Forbid the

introduction of sectarian sentiments or party politics into any lecture,

speeches, singing, or doings of the society. Article 4 - Providing for offices,

committees, and their election. Articles 5,6, and 7 - Duties of officers and

committees. (One of these should be a committee to relieve the poor, sick and

afflicted members and families of inebriates.) Article 8 - Provide for by-laws,

and alterations of the Constitution. Article 9 - Provide for labours with those

who violate their pledges, and the withdrawal of members...

III. HOW to CONDUCT the MEETINGS. - After the meeting has come to order, always

open with a hymn or song. Transact the business of the society with the utmost

order and dispatch....Then call for speakers. Let there be as many "experiences"

as possible, interspersed with brief arguments, appeals, exhortations, news of

the progress of the cause, temperance anecdotes, &c. Consult brevity, so as to

have as many of the brethren speak, as possible - the more the better....And

always be sure to call for persons to take the pledge, when the audience feel in

the right spirit. While the pledges are being filled up for delivery, pour out

the warmest appeals, or sing the most interesting hymns or songs. If any member

or other person violates the rules or order, or transgresses the principles and

measures of the society, remind him of it in good humour, gently and

kindly...KINDNESS must be the very atmosphere of your meetings, and LOVE the

fuel of all your zeal, and PERSUASION the force of all your speaking, if you

would have your society do the most good...(19).

Even more revealing is the definition, contained in the same Pocket Companion,

of the principles of the Washingtonian movement in terms of its differences from

the older societies.

I. All the former Societies directed their efforts mainly, if not wholly to the

prevention of intemperance.

"Washingtonianism," while it embraces all classes, sexes, ages and conditions of

society in its efforts, makes special efforts to snatch the poor inebriate from

his destructive habits - aims to cure as well as prevent intemperance. It

considers the drunkard as a man - our brother - capable of being touched by

kindness, of appreciating our love, and benefiting by our labours. We therefore,

stoop down to him in his fallen condition and kindly raise him up, and whisper

hope and encouragement into his ear, and aid him to aid himself back again to

health, peace, usefulness, respectability and prosperity. By the agency of

SISTERS in this labour, we endeavour to secure the co-operation of his family in

our effort...

II. Other societies, generally were auxiliary to a Country - that to a State -

and that to a National Society...

"Washingtonianism"...[makes] each society independent...

III. Before the Washingtonian Reform, not only the poor drunkard, but many of

nearly every other class in society supposed to be in the way of the

[temperance] cause, were denounced as enemies - held up to public indignation

and reprobation, threatened with the withdrawal of votes, pecuniary support, or

public countenance;...

"Washingtonianism" teaches us to avoid this course...We believe with the

American Prison Discipline Society, that "there is a chord, even in the most

corrupt heart, that vibrates to kindness, and a sense of justice, which knows

when it has been rightly dealt with." We have tried kindness with the poor

inebriate of many years continuance - we have found it powerful to overcome the

induration of heart caused by eight years of the world's contempt...Hence we

adopt the law of kindness - the godlike principle, "Be not overcome of evil, but

overcome evil with good," in our labours to win the maker, seller and user of

intoxicating liquors; and we disavow all compulsions, threats, denunciations,

hard names,...or malice or ill-will toward them...In short, "Moral suasion, not

force - love not hate, are the moving springs in the Washingtonian Creed" (19).

The hymns and songs contained in this Pocket Companion are likewise revealing.

Most of them are simply adapted Christian hymns and temperance songs, appealing

basically to religious and patriotic sentiments. In the preface it is frankly

stated that only such hymns and songs have been included which introduce no

"sectarianism, party politics, denunciation or harshness," or which contain no

"phrases and sentiments which all Christians could not conscientiously sing."

The central emphasis is probably contained in the following hymn on the "Power

of Love."

Love is the strongest tie Love softens all our toil,

That can our hearts unite; And makes our labours blest;

Love brings to life and liberty It lights again the joyful smile,

The drunkard chained in night And gives the anguished rest.

Obeying its commands, Let love forever grow,

We quickly supply each need; Intemp'rance drive afar,

With feeling hearts and tender hands A heaven begin on earth below

Bind up his wounds that bleed. And banish strife and war.

The principle of love and sympathy for the drunkard is, in countless references,

considered to be the distinctively new feature introduced by the Washingtonians

- and their central principle. John B. Gough attributed the success of the

movement to "the true spirit of Washingtonian sympathy, kindness and

charity...predominant in the bosom of this great Washingtonian Fraternity"(11).

Walter Channing, Unitarian Clergyman, in underscoring this principle, also calls

attention to the other distinctive feature of the Washingtonian movement - the

role played by the "reformed drunkards" themselves:

It was wholly new, both in its principles and its agents. It laid aside law and

punishment, and made love, the new commandment, its own. It dared to look upon

moral power as sufficient for the work of human regeneration - the living moral

power in the drunkard, however degraded he might be. It had faith in man...[and

so] the drunkard became a moral teacher... he rose from the lowest depths of

degradation, and became an apostle of the highest sentiment in his nature; viz.,

the love of man, the acknowledgment of the inborn dignity of man (9).



THE CAUSES OF DECLINE



The materials presented above would scarcely give the impression that the major

cause of the decline of the Washingtonian movement was its lack, and opposition

to, religion. Yet that charge gained currency and has been perpetuated in later

temperance writings. For example, Daniels, in 1877, wrote that "...this effort

to divorce temperance from religion was the chief weakness of the Washingtonian

movement(20)."

Actually, the charge seems to be based upon the generalization and

misinterpretation of certain real difficulties that did develop, in places,

between the Washingtonians and the churches - and upon the views of a few

extremists. A major source of information about the Washingtonian movement

available to later historians were the publications of the American Temperance

Movement, edited by John Marsh. In 1842 Marsh did become concerned about the

attitudes of some of the Washingtonians: "A lack of readiness on their part to

acknowledge their dependence on God, no small desecration of the Sabbath, and a

painful unwillingness, in not a few professed Christians, to connect the

temperance cause...with religion(13)."

It must be recalled that Marsh was the earliest and most ardent promoter of the

Washington movement. He had a genuine interest in the reformation of drunkards,

but his greatest interest was the promotion of the temperance cause. Above all,

Marsh wanted to establish the identification of temperance with religion and to

obtain the support of all church members. When the behaviour of some of the

Washingtonians threatened to antagonize some of the church people against the

temperance cause, Marsh did his best in his writings to counteract the

threatening trends in the Washingtonian movement. Later historians seemed to

overlook the fact that Marsh was addressing himself to minority manifestations -

and that Marsh succeeded to a considerable extent in countering these trends.

When, in the summer of 1844, Marsh sponsored and accompanied John B. Gough on a

tour through New York State, he was pleased with the fact that Gough was able to

speak in many churches - "even upperclass churches." On this improved rapport

with the churches, Marsh commented:

The open infidelity, and radicalism, and abuse of ministers, by some

reform-speakers had kindled up in many minds an opposition to all temperance

effort, especially on the Sabbath; but Mr. Gough took such decided ground on

religion, as the basis of all temperance, and the great security and hope of the

reformed, as entirely reconciled them, not only to the meetings, but to his

occupying the pulpit on the Sabbath (13).

The causes and coolness and even hostility between some of the Washingtonians

and some of the churches lay on both sides. For one thing, many Washingtonians

felt that their movement represented a purer form of Christianity than was to be

found in the churches. In fact, their chief criticism of churches was on this

score and did not stem out of antireligious beliefs. They felt that they were

living the principles which the churches talked about. This was expressed, for

example, in the following hymn stanza:

When Jesus, our Redeemer, came

To teach us in his Father's name,

In every act, in every thought

He lived the precepts which he taught (19).

Washingtonians, furthermore, we often critical of the unhealthy other -

worldliness prevalent in many churches:

This world's not all a fleeting show,

For a man's illusion given;

He that hath sooth'd a drunkard's woe,

And led him to reform, doth know,

There's something here of heaven.

The Washingtonian that hath run

The path of kindness even;

Who's measr'd out life's little span,

In deeds of love to God and man,

On earth has tasted heaven (19).

 


0 -1 0 0
5542 Glenn Chesnut
Part 3 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians Part 3 of 3: Maxwell on the Washingtonians 2/24/2009 12:41:00 PM


From: James Blair <jblair@videotron.ca> 

(jblair at videotron.ca)



Part 3 of 3: Milton A. Maxwell,

"The Washingtonian Movement"



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



A number of factors led some of the churches to close their doors to the

Washingtonians. Class snobbishness was one of these - a fact which particularly

riled the lower class Washingtonians in those communities. Dacus (21) points out

that the vanity of some of the ministers may have led them to disdain the

movement, since they were neither its originators nor its leaders. Dacus

certainly is right that many of the ministers of that day held narrow views that

made them unsympathetic to Washingtonian principles. The most striking example

of this is the argument of the Rev. Hiram Mattison, Minister of the Methodist

Episcopal Church of Watertown, N.Y. as stated in a tract published in 1844:

FIRST - No Christian is at liberty to select or adopt any general system,

organization, agencies or means, for the moral reformation of mankind, except

those prescribed and recognized by Jesus Christ. But,

SECONDLY - Christ has designated his Church as his chosen organization; his

Ministers as his chosen ambassadors or public teachers; and his Gospel as the

system of truth and motives by which to reform mankind, Nor has he prescribed

any other means. Therefore,

THIRDLY - All voluntary organizations and societies, for the suppression of

particular vices, and the promotion of particular virtues, being invented by a

man without a divine model or command, and proceeding upon principles and

employing agencies, means and motives nor recognized in the Gospel, are

incompatible with the plan ordained of Heaven, and consequently superfluous,

inexpedient and dangerous (14).

Mr. Mattison's views, however, were not shared by many of the clergymen; nor

were the majority of the churches at odds with the Washingtonians. Almost all

"General Conventions of the Protestant Churches endorsed and encouraged the

movement (14)."

The writer agrees with Eddy (14) that, except for the attitudes of a few

extremists, "Washingtonianism was not an irreligious movement." The reasons for

its decline must lie elsewhere.

The lack of adequate organization is another frequently cited cause of the

decline of the movement. As Krout points out, there was no connection between

the various groups that carried on the work. "Each group was allowed to follow

its own course....As a result, systematic organization was impossible;

uniformity in methods was never attained; and chance largely determined the

formulation of principles (1)."

The lack of organization was first felt, however, with regard to the needs of

the newly reformed men for more social and economic support. This need was

adequately met by the original Baltimore society. Certainly the Boston society

was well organized to help the impoverished, to get them back on their feet, and

to give them adequate social support, and this seems also to have been the case

in Philadelphia and other places. But in some communities, notably in New York

City, "It was felt that these men who had been so under the power of the

drinking habit needed more care and fraternal fellowship than could be given by

so formal a society as the Washingtonians (10)." This led to the founding, on a

plan similar to that of the Rechabites in Great Britain, of the "Order of the

Sons of Temperance." Actually this order was founded by a group of

Washingtonians in New York City during the fall of 1842.

They had noticed that although the Washingtonian movement was making rapid

advance in new fields, there were already many falling away from the pledge, and

they desired if possible, to hit upon some new plan of operations, some more

perfect organization, one that should shield the members from temptation, and

more effectually elevate and guide them....(17).

It soon manifested an esprit du corps, which gathered into it a large portion of

their reformed; inasmuch as, on paying a small weekly or quarterly due, they

were sure of a useful remittance in case of sickness [$4.00 a week] or death

[$30.00]. An impressive indication gave the order impressiveness, brotherhood,

and attachment; and a regalia, a distinction from other temperance men. Soon

divisions and grand divisions were found springing up in every quarter. Old

temperance societies lost such of their members as were reformed men; and where

there was a revival of temperance [where Washingtonianism took hold], young

reformed converts were allured hither, often in large proportions....(13).

The order of Sons of Temperance grew rapidly. By 1850 it had 35 Grand Divisions,

5,563 Subordinate Divisions (local societies), and 232,233 members. Eventually

it became international, with a peak membership of 700,000. A later scribe of

the order said that it had been brought into existence "to preserve the fruits

of the Washingtonian movement." But one of its functional results was the

displacement of the Washingtonian societies.

This displacement of loyalties and membership was furthered by other orders. In

1845 the "Temple of Honor" was founded as a higher degree in the Order of the

Sons of Temperance. Separating from its parent body in 1846, it soon spread over

the United States and Canada, numbering "in its ranks thousands upon thousands

of the best and most influential citizens...(8)." "The cadets of Temperance" was

another order which sprang from the Sons of Temperance. Designed for youth, it

also became independent. There was an order for children, the "Bands of Hope."

In 1852 the largest fraternal temperance order of all, the "Independent Order of

Good Templars," was founded, with a prominent Washingtonian, Nathaniel Curtis,

as its first President. These orders, taking over most of the functions of the

Washingtonian movement and incorporating much of the membership under another

name, may be considered, from the sociological point of view, an institutional

consolidation of Washingtonianism. But they also account, to a considerable

extent, for the disappearance of the Washingtonian societies.

The chief causes of the decline of the Washingtonian movement are to be found,

however, in its relation to the general temperance movement. Its membership, its

purposes, and its ideology were inextricably mixed with the membership, purposes

and ideology of the temperance movement.

Even the Baltimore society did not confine its membership to the reclaimed

victims of alcoholism - nor did it lack an interest in the temperance movement.

And, outside of Baltimore, these early "Washingtonian missionaries" were

invariably sponsored by temperance organizations. When the power of the

Washingtonian approach to reclaimed drunkards was demonstrated - and when it was

shown that the reclaimed drunkards' experiences had the power to arouse great

interest in the cause of total abstinence, the temperance leaders threw

themselves behind the movement. Here was the answer to their prayers - something

that would revitalize the temperance movement.

The American Temperance Union and its executive secretary, John Marsh, in

introducing and promoting the Washingtonians, may indeed be given "much credit

for the success of the Washingtonians (12)." But in the last analysis, Marsh and

others looked upon Washingtonianism as a method, and Washingtonians as the

means, for "sparking" the temperance cause. That was their chief function. And

it appears that this eventually became the chief interest of Washingtonian

leaders themselves. Hawkins kept up the original Washingtonian emphasis of work

with alcoholics for a long time, but during the last dozen years of his life

(1846-58) most of his interest was centred in the larger temperance cause. John

B. Gough made a similar shift in emphasis.

Accordingly, then, when public interest in the distinctive Washingtonian

technique of experience-relating began to wane, the interest of Marsh and other

temperance leaders in Washingtonianism also declined. Lyman Beecher put it

bluntly: "...their thunder is worn out. The novelty of the commonplace narrative

is used up, and we cannot raise an interest..."(13). Marsh himself, from the

perspective of later years, spoke of the Washingtonian period as a phase of the

temperance movement, giving way to other methods.

Since Washingtonianism was identified with the relating of experiences by

reformed men, the displacement of this method was, to that extent, a

displacement of Washingtonianism itself.

Another fact which made temperance leaders lose interest in the Washingtonian

movement was its identification with the "moral suasion" point of view.

The temperance movement, up to the emergence of Washingtonianism, was not

characterized by advocacy of legal action to attain its ends. Some of the

leaders, however, had begun to voice the desirability of such action; the issue

was in the air. The success of the Washingtonian method of love and kindness in

dealing with alcoholics convinced many Washingtonians and others that this was

also the method to use with the makers and sellers of liquor. William K.

Mitchell, leader of the Baltimore group but also influential throughout the

country, was particularly insistent that Washingtonians ...should have nothing

to say against the traffic or the men engaged in it. He would have no pledge

even, against engaging in the manufacture or traffic in liquors; nor did he

counsel reformed men to avoid liquor-sellers' society or places of business. He

would even admit men to membership in his societies who were engaged in the

traffic (14).

Many of the Baltimore missionaries must have felt the same way and must have

advocated this idea wherever they went. Just as Washingtonian experience

"proved" the soundness of total abstinence, so Washingtonian experience "proved"

the validity of moral suasion. It was as simple as that, in the minds of many,

and was so expressed in a resolution presented at the Massachusetts State

Washingtonian Convention on May 26, 1842:

RESOLVED, That the unparalleled success of the Washingtonian movement in

reforming the drunkard, and inducing the retailer to cease his unholy traffic,

affords conclusive evidence that moral suasion is the only true and proper basis

of action in the temperance cause....(9).

Even at that date, Hawkins and a few others objected and had the resolution

modified on the grounds that moral suasion was an inadequate technique for the

dealing with "unprincipled dealers," and that the aid of the law was necessary.

Hawkins' view, however, was not shared by most Washingtonians. Marsh once

referred to Hawkins thus: "Though a Washingtonian, he was a strong

prohibitionist (13)." John B. Gough, because of his later advocacy of

prohibitory legislation, was accused of not being a Washingtonian.

When the general temperance sentiment began to favour legal action,

Washingtonian policy was dated and opposed. For a time, many temperance leaders

hardly knew whether to regard the Washingtonians as friends or enemies. Senator

Henry William Blair of New Hampshire, in 1888, referred back to this emphasis of

the Washingtonians on moral suasion as "a trace of maudlin insanity," - because

of which the temperance movement was left in a state worse than before, and as a

consequence of which "we have ever since been combating the absurd theory, which

is the favourite fortress of the liquor dealers, that evil is increased because

it is prohibited by law (22)."

When the relating of experiences began to pall, and when moral suasion was no

longer desired, there was nothing left to Washingtonia nism, ideologically,

except the reclaiming of drunkards. This, however, became an increasingly

secondary interest of those whose primary interest was the furtherance of the

temperance cause - and, without the telling of experiences, without the work of

alcoholics with alcoholics, and without certain other emotional by-products of

Washingtonian groups and activities, this became an increasingly difficult thing

to do. And, as fewer and fewer men were reclaimed, the last distinctive feature

of the Washingtonian movement dropped out of sight.

A review of various accounts of the Washingtonian movement makes it clear that

the movement turned into something which it did not start out to be - a revival

phase of the organized temperance movement. There are frequent references to the

movement as "a pledging revival," "a revival campaign," "a temperance revival."

The net result was a tremendous strengthening of total abstinence sentiment and

the actual enlistment of new millions in the temperance cause. But the original

purpose of rehabilitating alcoholics was lost to sight. Nor would it be proper

to blame the temperance movement for exploiting the Washingtonians. As E.M.

Jellinek5 has pointed out, the Washingtonian movement was not equipped with an

ideology distinctive enough to prevent its dissolution.5 Personal communication.

With this background, it becomes possible to make a comparison between the

Washingtonian movement and Alcoholics Anonymous.

COMPARISON WITH ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS

It is apparent that the Washingtonian societies, when they were most effective

in the rehabilitation of alcoholics, had a great many similarities to Alcoholics

Anonymous. These similarities might be listed as follows:

1. Alcoholics helping each other.

2. The needs and interests of alcoholics kept central, despite mixed membership,

by predominance of numbers, control,or the enthusiasm of the movement.

3. Weekly meetings.

4. The sharing of experiences.

5. The fellowship of the group or its members constantly available.

6. A reliance upon the power of God.

7. Total abstinence from alcohol.

Most Washingtonian groups probably failed to meet this ideal program, or to

maintain it for long. Even in itemizing the ideal program, some of the

differences between the Washingtonian groups and Alcoholics Anonymous stand out.

The admission of nonalcoholics as members and the incorporation of the

"temperance" purpose - the inducement of total abstinence in nonalcoholics - are

the most striking differences. Furthermore, at their best, the Washingtonian

groups possessed no understanding of alcoholism other than the possibility of

recovery through love and sympathy. Their approach to the problem of alcoholism

and alcohol was moralistic rather than psychological or therapeutic. They

possessed no program for personality change. The group had no resource of ideas

to help them rise above the ideational content locally possessed. Except for

their program of mutual aid they had no pattern of organization or activity

different from existing patterns. There was far too great a reliance upon the

pledge, and not enough appreciation of other elements in their program. Work

with other alcoholics was not required, nor was the therapeutic value of this

work explicitly recognized. There was no anonymity to keep the public from

becoming aware of broken pledges, or to keep individuals from exploiting the

movement for prestige and fame. Finally, there was not enough understanding of

their own therapeutic program to formulate it and thus help the new groups to

establish themselves on a sound and somewhat uniform basis.

The differences can be brought out more clearly by a more detailed, comparative

analysis of the Alcoholics Anonymous program - its principles, practices and

content.

1. Exclusively alcoholic membership.- There are many therapeutic values in the

cohesiveness and solidarity which a group with a common problem can achieve. But

in the light of the Washingtonian experience, the greatest long-run value of an

exclusively alcoholic membership is that it permits and reinforces exclusive

attention to the rehabilitation of alcoholics.

2. Singleness of purpose.- As stated in the masthead of an organizational

publication (23), Alcoholics Anonymous "is not allied with any sect,

denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in

any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is

to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety."

Nothing can divide groups more quickly - and certainly destroy the therapeutic

atmosphere effectively - than religious and political controversy. Strong

efforts were made in the Washingtonian movement to minimize sectarian,

theological and political differences, but the movement did not avoid attracting

to itself the hostile emotions generated by these conflicts. Even if it had been

more successful in this regard, it was still caught in all the controversy to

which the temperance cause had become liable. Not only that, but within the

temperance movement itself it eventually became stranded on the issue of moral

suasion versus legal action.

In the light of this experience, the position of Alcoholics Anonymous stands in

decided and hopeful contrast. In refusing to endorse or oppose causes, and

particularly the temperance cause, A.A. is avoiding the greatest handicap which

the Washingtonian movement had. Some temperance leaders may deplore that A.A.

does not give them support, but they have no grounds for complaining that they

are being opposed or hampered by A.A.

The A.A. program also contains a happy formula for avoiding the religious or

theological controversies which could easily develop even within the groups as

presently constituted. This is the use of the term "Power" (greater or higher),

and particularly the phrase "as we understood Him," in referring to this Power,

or God. The tolerance which this phrase has supported is an invaluable asset.

A further value of this single-minded concentration on the rehabilitation of

alcoholics is made obvious by the Washingtonian experience. Whenever, and as

long as, the Washingtonians were working hard at the reclamation of drunkards,

they had notable success and the movement thrived and grew. This would support

the idea that active outreach to other alcoholics is a factor in therapeutic

success and, at the same time, a necessary condition for growth - and even for

survival. Entirely aside from the matter of controversy, then, this singleness

of A.A. purpose is a condition of continued therapeutic success and survival.

3. An adequate, clear-cut program of recovery.- Another great asset of

Alcoholics Anonymous is the ideology which forms the content and context of its

program of recovery, and which has received clear and attractive expression in

the book Alcoholics Anonymous (24) and in other A.A. literature.This ideology

incorporates the much sounder understanding of alcoholism which has been

developed in recent years. It is a pragmatic blend of that which scientific

research, dynamic psychology and mature religion have to offer; and through the

literature of the movement, the members are kept sympathetically oriented to the

developments in these fields.

Accordingly, instead of viewing alcoholism with a moralistic eye on alcohol - as

an evil which ought to be abandoned - A.A. sees alcoholism as an illness,

symptomatic of a personality disorder. Its program is designed to get at the

basic problem, that is, to bring about a change in personality.

This program is simply and clearly stated in the Twelve Steps - augmented by the

"24 hour program" of abstaining from alcohol, and the supporting slogans and

emphases such as "First things first," "Live and let live," "Easy does it,"

"Keep an open mind," honesty, humility, and so forth. Great stress is also put

upon regular attendance at the group meetings, which are characterized by the

informal exchange of experiences and ideas and by a genuinely satisfying

fellowship.

Compared to the Washingtonian brand, the A.A. sharing of experiences is notably

enriched by the psychological insights which have been brought into the group by

A.A. literature and outside speakers. A thorough analysis and catharsis is

specifically asked for in the Twelve Steps - as well as an improvement in

relations to other persons. Work with other alcoholics is required, and the

therapeutic value accruing to the sponsor of new members is distinctly

recognized. The spiritual part of the program is more clearly and inclusively

defined, more soundly based, and more frankly made an indispensable condition of

recovery.

It appears, furthermore, that the A.A. group activity is more satisfactory to

the alcoholic than was the case in many Washingtonian societies. A.A. members

seem to find all the satisfaction and values in their groups that the founders

of the various orders thought were lacking in the Washingtonian groups.

A decided Washingtonian weakness was its general lack of follow-through. In

contrast, A.A. is particularly strong on this point, providing a potent

follow-through in a group setting where self-analysis and catharsis are

stimulated; where new attitudes toward alcohol, self and others are learned;

where the feeling tones are modified through a new quality of relationships;

where, in short, a new way of life is acquired - one which not only enables the

person to interact with his environment (particularly with other persons)

without the use of alcohol, but enables him to do so on a more mature,

satisfying basis.

No doubt a similar change occurred in many (though probably not in most) of the

alcoholic Washingtonians, but it was more by a coincidence, within and without

the societies, of circumstances that were rarely understood and never formulated

into a definite, repeatable program. A.A. is infinitely better equipped in this

respect.

4. Anonymity.- A comparison with the Washingtonian experience underscores the

sheer survival value of the principle of anonymity in Alcoholics Anonymous. At

the height of his popularity, John B. Gough either "slipped" or was tricked by

his enemies into a drunken relapse. At any rate, the opponents of the

Washingtonian movement seized upon this lapse with glee and made the most of it

to hurt Gough and the movement. This must have happened frequently to less

widely known but nevertheless publicly known Washingtonians. Public confidence

in the movement was impaired. Anonymity protects the reputation of A.A. from

public criticism not only of "slips" but also of failures, internal tensions,

and all deviant behaviour.

Equally important, anonymity keeps the groups from exploiting prominent names

for the sake of group prestige; and it keeps individual members from exploiting

their A.A. connection for personal prestige or fame. This encourages humility

and the placing of principles above personalities. Such behaviour not only

generates outside admiration of A.A. but has therapeutic value for the

individual members. There are further therapeutic values in anonymity: it makes

it easier for alcoholics to approach A.A., and it relaxes the new member. It

encourages honest catharsis and utter frankness. It protects the new member from

the critical eyes of certain acquaintances while he experiments with this new

way of life, for fumbling and failure will be hidden.

5. Hazard-avoiding traditions.- Another decisive contrast to the Washingtonian

movement is the development in Alcoholics Anonymous not only of a relatively

uniform program of recovery but also of relatively uniform traditions for

avoiding the usual hazards to which organizations are subject.

In Alcoholics Anonymous there is actually no overhead authority. Wherever two or

three alcoholics get together to attain sobriety on the general basis of the

Twelve Step program they may call themselves an A.A. group. They are free to

conduct their activities as they see fit. As would be expected in a fellowship

of independent groups, all kinds of practices and policies have been tried. A

careful reading of the A.A. publication, A.A. Tradition (25), will reveal how

great the variety has been, here and there. Membership has been limited. Conduct

of groups has been undemocratic. Leaders have exploited the groups for personal

prestige. The principle of anonymity has been violated. Personal and

jurisdictional rivalries have developed. Money, property and organizational

difficulties have disrupted A.A. groups. Members and groups, yielding to their

own enthusiasms and reflecting the patterns of other institutions around them,

have endangered the immediate and ultimate welfare of the A.A. fellowship. These

deviations could have been serious had there not existed a considerable

uniformity in practice and principle.

In the early days of A.A., the entire fellowship was bound together by a chain

of personal relationships - all created on the basis of a common program, a

common spirit and a common tradition. This spirit and this pragmatically

achieved program and tradition were the only guiding principles, and relative

uniformity was not difficult. Alcoholics Anonymous was just a fellowship -

small, informal, poor and unpretentious. But with growth, prosperity and

prestige, the difficulties of getting all groups and members to see the value of

these guiding principles increased. A self-conscious statement and explanation

was needed - and this finally emerged in 1947 and 1948 in the "Twelve Points of

Tradition,"elaborated upon in editorials in The A.A. Grapevine (23) and

subsequently published as a booklet (25).

In formulating and stating the reasons for these traditions, Bill W., one of the

founders, has continued the extremely valuable function which he, Dr. Bob and

other national leaders have performed - that of keeping intact the experienced

based program and principles of A.A.

Perhaps as important as any other is the tradition of keeping authority in

principles rather than letting it become vested in offices and personalities.

This tradition is supported by the related principle of rotating leadership, and

the concept that leaders are merely the trusted servants of the group or groups.

The hazard-avoiding values of these traditions are obvious.

The tradition that membership be open to any alcoholic has value in countering

the tendency toward exclusiveness, class-consciousness, cliquishness - and it

helps to keep the groups focussed on their main job of helping the "alcoholic

who still suffers."

The tradition of complete self-support of A.A. groups and activities by the

voluntary contributions of A.A. members avoids the dangers inherent in fixed

dues, assessments, public solicitations, and the like - and it is conducive to

self-reliance and self-respect. Furthermore, in minimizing money it maximizes

fellowship.

The tradition that "any considerable property of genuine use to A.A. should be

separately incorporated and managed" is important in keeping the A.A. groups

from becoming entangled in the problems of property beyond the minimum necessary

for their own functioning. The tradition of "the least possible organization"

has a similar value. These last three traditions might be summed up as

precautions against the common tendency to forget that money, property and

organization are only means - and that means find their rightful place only when

the end is kept clearly in view. For A.A., these traditions should help to keep

the groups concentrated on their prime purpose: helping alcoholics recover.

The existence of these traditions - and their clear formulation - are assets

which the Washingtonian movement never possessed.

What prognosis for Alcoholics Anonymous is suggested by this comparison with the

Washingtonian movement?

The least that can be said is that the short life of the Washingtonian movement

simply has no parallel implications for A.A. Despite certain but limited

similarities in origins, purpose and early activities, the differences are too

great to draw the conclusion of a similar fate for A.A.

Are the differences, then, of such a nature as to assure a long life for

Alcoholics Anonymous? This much can be said with assurance of consensus: (A) In

the light of our present-day knowledge, A.A. has a sounder program of recovery

than the Washingtonians achieved. (B) A.A. has avoided many of the

organizational hazards which plagued the Washingtonian societies. The success

and growth of A.A. during more than a decade of public life, its present vigour

and its present unity underscore these statements and augur well for the future.

In the writer's judgment, based on a systematic study (26) of A.A., there is no

inherent reason why A.A. should not enjoy an indefinitely continued existence.

How long an existence will depend upon how well the leaders and members continue

to follow the present program and principles - that is, how actively A.A.

members will continue to reach out to other alcoholics; how thoroughly the

remainder of the A.A. program will continue to be practiced, particularly the

steps dealing with catharsis and the spiritual aspects; and, how closely all

groups will be guided by the present traditions.

Finally, the writer would suggest that the value in the traditions lies chiefly

in the avoidance of factors that can easily interfere with keeping the ideal

therapeutic atmosphere found in the small A.A. groups at their best. Most of the

personality change necessary for recovery from alcoholism occurs in these small

groups - and that work is at its very best when there is a genuinely warm,

nonegocentric fellowship. How well this quality of fellowship is maintained in

the small, local groups is offered, therefore, as another condition determining

how bright the future of A.A. will be.

Whatever the worth of these judgments, they point up the potential value to A.A.

of careful, objective research on these and related conditions. This would give

Alcoholics Anonymous another asset that the Washingtonians never had.



REFERENCES



1. Krout,J.A. The Origins of Prohibition. New York; Knopf, 1925.

2. Rush,Benjamin. An Inquiry Into the Effects of Ardent Spirits on the Human

Body and Mind. [1785]

3. Beecher, Lyman. Six Sermons On the Nature, Occasion, Signs, Evils, and Remedy

of Intemper- ance. New York. American Tract Society, 1827.

4. Fehlandt, A.F. A Century of Drink Reform in the United States. Cincinnati;

Jennings and Graham; and New York, Eaton & Mains, 1904.

5. Permanent Temperance Documents of the American Temperance Society; Vol.1

Boston; Seth Bliss, 1835.

6. One Hundred Years of Temperance. A Memorial Volume of the Centennial

Temperance Confer ence Held in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, September, 1885. New

York; National Temperance Society & Publication House, 1886.

7. Annual Reports of the Executive Committee of the American Temperance Union,

1840-1849.

8. Harrison, D. A Voice from the Washingtonian Home. Boston; Redding & Co.,

1860.

9. Hawkins, W.G. Life of John W. Hawkins. Boston, Dutton, 1863.

10. Banks, L.A. The Lincoln Legion. New York; Mershon Co., 1903.

11. Gough, J.B. Autobiography and Personal Recollections. Springfield, Mass.;

Bill, Nichols & Co.,1869.

12. Wooley, J. G. and Johnson, W.E. Temperance Progress in the Century. London;

Linscott Publish ing Co., 1903.

13. Marsh,J. Temperance Recollections. New York; Scribner, 1866.

14. Eddy,R. Alcohol and History. New York; National Temperance Society &

Publication House, 1887.

15. Cherrington, E.H. The Evolution of Prohibition in the United States of

America. Westerville, Ohio; American Issue Press, 1920.

16. Cyclopedia of Temperance and Prohibition. New York; Funk & Wagnalls, 1891.

17. Crothers, T.D. Inebriety. Cincinati; Harvey, 1911.

18. Sellers,J.B. The Prohibition Movement in Alabama, 1702-1943. Chapel Hill,

Univ. North Carolina Press, 1943.

19. Grosh, A.B. ed. Washingtonian Pocket Companion. Utica, N.Y., S.S. Merrell;

Bennett, Backus & Hawley; & G. Tracy, 1842.

20. Daniels, W.H. The Temperance Reform and Its Great Reformers. New York;

Nelson & Phillips, 1878.

21. Dacus, J.A. Battling with the Demon. St. Louis; Scammel & Co., 1878.

22. Blair, H.W. The Temperance Movement. Boston; William E. Smythe Co., 1888.

23. The A.A. Grapevine. New York; A.A. Grapevine, Inc.

24. Alcoholics Anonymous. New York; Works Publishing Co., 1939.

25. A.A. Tradition. New York; Works Publishing Co., 1947.

26. Maxwell, M.A. Social Factors in the Alcoholics Anonymous Program. Doctoral

Dissertation, U. of Texas, 1949.


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History of Royalties - Part 1 History of Royalties - Part 1 2/23/2009 10:51:00 PM


Source references for the postings are:



..



[AACOA-AA Comes of Age] -- [BW-FH-Bill W by Francis Hartigan] -- [DBGO-Dr

Bob and the Good Old-timers] -- [GB-Getting Better Inside Alcoholics

Anonymous by Nan R] -- [GTBT-Grateful to Have Been There by Nell Wing] --

[GSC-FR-General Service Conference-Final Report (identified by year)] --

[GSO-General Service Office-service pieces] -- [GSO-AC-General Service

Office Archives Collection] -- [Gv-Grapevine-identified by month and year]

-- [HIW-How It Worked by Mitchell K] -- [LOH-The Language of the Heart] --

[LR-Lois Remembers, by Lois W] -- [PIO-Pass It On, AAWS] -- SM-AA Service

Manual and Twelve Concepts for World Service] -- [www-Internet]



..



1938 - September, board Trustee Frank Amos arranged a meeting between Bill W

and Eugene Exman (Religious Editor of Harper Brothers publishers). Exman

offered Bill a $1,500 advance ($23,000) on the rights to the book. The

Alcoholic Foundation Board urged acceptance of the offer. Instead, Hank P

and Bill formed Works Publishing Co. and sold stock at $25 par value ($380

today). 600 shares were issued: Hank and Bill received 200 shares each, 200

shares were sold to others. Later, 30 shares of preferred stock, at $100 par

value ($1,500 today) were sold as well. To mollify the board, it was decided

that the author's royalty (which would ordinarily be Bill's) could go to the

Alcoholic Foundation. The newly formed Works Publishing Co would later come

to be known as AA World Services or AAWS. (LR 197, BW-FH 116-119, SM S6, PIO

193-195, AACOA 157, 188, HIW 99-104)



..



1940 - May 22, Works Publishing Co. was legally incorporated as a publishing

arm of the Alcoholic Foundation. Bill W and Hank P gave up their stock with

a stipulation that Dr Bob and Anne receive 10% royalties on the Big Book for

life. Hank was persuaded to relinquish his shares in exchange for a $200

payment ($3,000 today) for office furniture he claimed belonged to him.

(AACOA 189-190, LR 199, BW-FH 119, SM 11, PIO 235-236, GTBT 92, GSO-AC)



..



1941 - With the possibility of being recalled to active duty in the Army,

Bill W requested that he be granted a royalty on book sales to provide

financial support for his wife Lois. The board approved a 10% royalty. Prior

to this, Dr Bob was voluntarily giving Bill half the 10% royalty that he and

Anne were receiving. Bill W's 10% royalty became his sole source of income.

One exception to this occurred sometime in the mid-1940s when Bill's income

averaged $1,700 ($24,600 today) over seven years. The board made a grant to

Bill of $1,500 ($21,700 today) for each of the seven years for a total of

$10,500 ($152,000 today) out of which Bill purchased his Bedford Hills

house. (1951 GSC-FR 13)



..



1942 - October, Clarence S stirred up a controversy in Cleveland after

discovering that Dr Bob and Bill W were receiving royalties from Big Book

sales. (DBGO 267-269, BW-FH 153-154, AACOA 193-194) Bill and Dr Bob

re-examined the problem of their financial status and concluded that

royalties from the Big Book seemed to be the only answer to the problem.

Bill sought counsel from his spiritual sponsor, Father Edward Dowling, who

suggested that Bill and Bob could not accept money for 12th Step work, but

should accept royalties as compensation for special services. This later

formed the basis for Tradition 8 and Concept 11. Due to the amount of time

both co-founders dedicated to the Fellowship, it was impossible for either

of them to earn a living through their normal professions. (AACOA 194-195,

PIO 322-324)



..



1945 - The Alcoholic Foundation wrote to John D Rockefeller Jr and the 1940

dinner guests that AA no longer needed their financial help. Big Book

royalties could look after Dr Bob and Bill and group contributions could pay

the office expenses. If these were insufficient, the reserve accumulated out

of literature sales could meet the deficit. In total, Rockefeller and the

dinner guest donated $30,700 ($365,000 today) to AA. The donations were

viewed as loans and paid back out of Big Book income. This led to the

principle of being fully self-supporting declining all further outside

contributions and later formed the basis of Tradition 7. (AACOA 203-204)



..



1947 - August, in his Grapevine Traditions essay titled "Last Seven Years

Have Made AA Self-Supporting" Bill W wrote "Two years ago the trustees set

aside, out of AA book funds, a sum which enabled my wife and me to pay off

the mortgage on our home and make some needed improvements. The Foundation

also granted Dr Bob and me each a royalty of 10% on the book Alcoholics

Anonymous, our only income from AA sources. We are both very comfortable and

deeply grateful." (LOH 62-66)



..











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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History of Royalties - Part 2 History of Royalties - Part 2 2/23/2009 10:52:00 PM


1951 - April 20-22, (NY City) 37 United States and Canadian delegates (half

the planned number) convened at the Commodore Hotel as the first Panel of

the General Service Conference.



..



It was reported that the Trustees of the Foundation, following Dr. Bob's

death, had voted to increase Bill's royalty on the Big Book from 10 percent

to 15 per cent. .This author's royalty would also apply to other Books the

Trustees are anxious to have Bill prepare for their consideration in the

future. The chairman reported that Bill insisted that this increase be

approved by the General Service Conference. A motion approving the action of

the Trustees was approved unanimously by the Delegates. The Conference also

approved unanimously a motion recommending that steps be taken to insure

that Bill and Lois receive book royalties so long as either one shall live.

(1951 GSC-FR 12)



..



1952 - As he did in 1951, Bill reviewed with the delegates the financial

arrangements under which he now works, reminding them that his living is

derived from royalties on the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous." Should there be

an increase in his royalties as a result of the writing project he has set

for himself, Bill said, he would wish to take from them only "a good living,

not necessarily the full royalties his writings may earn. As a matter of

movement interest, Bill said, he hoped it would be agreeable if he had

discretion over the disposition of his excess royalties - not for personal

use, but for such matters as restitution to creditors and some provision for

the future of General Service Office employees who now have no form of

social security. Bill's presentation was approved in its entirety, upon

recommendation of the Conference Committee on Literature. (1952 GSC-FR 21)



..



1954 - The Alcoholic Foundation Board reported that it decided not to

accept, a royalty of $.25 per copy on sales of a book on The Twelve Steps,

which had been offered by the publishers. (1954 GSC-FR 17)



..



1955 - July 1-3, AA's 20th anniversary and 2nd International Convention was

held in St Louis' Kiel Auditorium. Bill W thanked the Convention attendees

for purchasing the Big Book because the royalties from it had provided him

and Lois with a home where they had seen more than 3,000 AA members over the

years. (AACOA 220, PIO 354, 357)



..



1957 - At the Conference, Bill read to the Delegates the following letter

addressed to Mr. Archibald B. Roosevelt, Treasurer of the General Service

Board:



..



Dear Archie:



..



As many are aware, I have long felt that my personal finances should always

be an open book to our membership. Ever since 1951, when the General Service

Conference first met, my book royalties and m y expense allowances have been

shown in each year's audit. This practice will of course be continued. This

year, however, I would like to make a full accounting for all monies

received by me from 1938, when the Alcoholic Foundation was created, to 1955

when, at St. Louis, the Conference and its General Service Board assumed

final responsibility for AA's world affairs.



..



This seventeen-year audit has been prepared by Mr. Wilbur Smith, our CPA,

and is here enclosed. Saving the small amounts 1 received as a result of Mr.

Rockefeller's 1940 dinner, it can be seen that m y whole income over those

years has derived only from AA Publishing activities. My other services to

the Headquarters were all volunteer.



..



I earnestly recommend that this detailed accounting be always shown to every

Conference Delegate on request; and further that a copy of this audit be

placed on permanent file at the New York Headquarters where, on request, it

can be read by any visiting AA member.



..



Ever yours,



..



Bill



..



P. S. I hope that the Conference sees fit to publish this letter each year

in its annual report.



..



1958 - April, (NY City) the 8th Conference. The status of Bill W, cofounder

of AA, in relation to the Fellowship was clarified in two respects at the

1958 Conference.



..



The first point of clarification was requested directly by Bill in a letter

to Delegates in which he pointed out that several future courses were open

to him, ranging from complete disassociation from AA service matters to

continuing participation in the number of unfinished projects which he feels

are important to the welfare of the movement.



..



On this point the Conference voted unanimously to ask Bill to provide

continuing leadership on all projects of movement wide concern in which he

is currently interested.



..



In a second vote, the Conference approved the action of the General Service

Board in re-assigning to Bill royalty rights in his three books (Alcoholics

Anonymous, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions and Alcoholics Anonymous Comes

of Age), and in books he may write in the future, for the duration of the

copyrights involved. Bill has declared his intention to have these royalty

rights revert to the movement when the copyrights expire. (1958 GSC-FR 7)



..











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0 -1 0 0
5545 Arthur S
History of Royalties - Part 3 History of Royalties - Part 3 2/23/2009 10:53:00 PM


1961 - April 19-23, (NY City) the 11th Conference. Bill W asked the General

Service Board of Trustees to consider specific action, in respect of royalty

payments on textbook literature, to assure that co-Founder Bill and his

wife, Lois, may not suffer a possible loss of income in the future.



..



In a moving display of its affection for Bill as the surviving co-founder of

A. A. and for Lois, his wife, the Eleventh Conference suggested to the Board

of Trustees that changes be made in Bill's current royalty arrangement

involving A. A. textbooks to minimize the possibility that Bill's income

might be reduced in the future if cheaper editions of AA texts are ever

produced.



..



The action was occasioned by a general discussion of the advisability of

producing a "cheap edition" of the "Big Book". (See separate Policy page of

this report)



..



In the course of the discussion, Bill reviewed his financial arrangements

with the movement, pointing out that all his income derived from book

royalties and that he did not receive compensation for his non-writing

services to the Fellowship. He stressed that he was not interested in

accumulating a large estate but that he was concerned for the welfare of

Lois and certain immediate relatives and devoted friends who might require

assistance in the event of his passing. He said that he had already

deposited with the Trustees an informal "letter of intent" suggesting what

disposition might be made of royalties due his estate after his death.



..



While noting that the reduced royalties from paperback texts would

undoubtedly curtail his income, Bill repeated a pledge that he has given

previous Conferences. He said that if royalties under his present contract

should become "unseemingly large" he would reduce them voluntarily or permit

the movement to take the initiative in reducing them.



..



Trustee Dick S presented the following memorandum which was converted into a

motion from the floor and adopted unanimously: "The Conference recognizes

that the publication of cheap editions of AA books would probably reduce the

income to World Services, and Bill's personal income. This conference

unanimously suggests the following to the Trustees: To add a rider to Bill's

royalty contract to the effect that, if cheaper books are ever published,

Bill's royalties be increased by an amount sufficient to keep the royalty

income at the same average level it had been for the five years before

cheaper books were published; (further, that) as time goes on, if inflation

erodes the purchasing power of this income, the Trustees will adjust the

royalties to produce the same approximate purchasing power; this to be

effective during the lifetime of Bill and Lois and Bill's legatees." (PIO

393, 1961 GSC-FR 3, 7)



..



1963 - Bill W modified his royalty agreement with AAWS so that 10% of his

royalties went to his mistress, Grapevine Editor, Helen W. The agreement

provided Bill and Lois with a comfortable living on annual incomes between

$30,000 to $40,000 during the 1960's ($175,000 to $233,000 today). At the

time of Bill's death (1971) it was around $56,000 ($295,000 today). In the

1970's, royalties surged significantly and it made Lois W quite rich. (PIO

393, BW-FH 192-193, GB 69-70, WPR 72)



..



1964 - April 21-26, (NY City) the 14th Conference reported that it reviewed

and approved an agreement between' Bill W, co-founder, and AA World Services

Inc covering royalties derived from Bill's writings. (The intent of the

agreement is to protect Bill, his wife, Lois, and their designated heirs,

while defining AAWS's position as the Society's publishing agency). (1964

GSC-FR 4)



..



A section of the Conference Report titled "Royalty Agreement On Bill's

Writings Approved" stated:



..



Of all the factors responsible for the growth of AA (and for the sobriety of

hundreds of thousands of men and women around the world), probably none is

more important than the movement's book literature. The three major texts -

"Alcoholics Anonymous," "The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" and "AA

Comes of Age" along with the service manual on The Twelve Concepts of

Service are likely to endure as keys to personal sobriety and Group

survival. All four publications have one thing in common; they were written

or edited by Bill W, surviving co-founder, and the copyrights to them were

assigned by Bill to the movement. The movement was thus assured ownership of

its basic publications, the income from which has also underwritten many of

the Society's world services.



..



For his services to AA over a period of nearly 30 years, Bill has never

received salary compensation from the movement. His only income has been

from royalties on his writings and editorial work. Because the earlier

royalty agreements made no provision for protecting Lois, Bill's wife, in

the event of Bill's death, and did not provide for a transfer of royalties

to relatives to whom Bill and Lois have obligations, the agreements have

been reviewed by the General Service Board in recent years.



..



As a result, the Board in April, 1963, concluded a new agreement with Bill

which was submitted to the 1964 Conference for review and approval. The new

agreement, outlined in the report of the Conference Finance Committee, was

approved unanimously by the Delegates.



..











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


0 -1 0 0
5546 Arthur S
History of Royalties - Part 4 History of Royalties - Part 4 2/23/2009 10:54:00 PM


The 1964 Conference Approved an agreement between Bill W, co-founder, and AA

World Services Inc covering royalties derived from Bill's writings.



..



Under the terms of the contract, a royalty of 15 per cent is paid to Bill,

except that no royalties are paid on "overseas editions." Royalties are to

be paid to Bill and Lois, his wife, during their lifetimes; following the

deaths of Bill and Lois, royalties revert in shares of royalties to living

heirs. These shares revert to AAWS upon the deaths of the beneficiaries. Not

more than 20 per cent may be bequeathed to any heir under the age of 40

years as of the date of the agreement between Bill and AAWS (April 29,

1963). The contract provides protection of royalties against "cheap books"

and protection of AAWS and Bill against fluctuations in general economic

conditions. AAWS retains the right of “first refusal" on any future literary

works of Bill's. (1964 GSC-FR 9, 37)



..



1967 - April, the US copyright to the first edition Big Book expired and was

not renewed. The oversight was not discovered until nearly 20 years later in

1985. It was also discovered in 1985 that the US copyright to new material

in the second edition Big Book had lapsed in 1983. It should be noted

however that the Big Book copyright has expired only in the US. It is still

in force outside the US under international treaty agreements. (NG 299, GSO)





..



1975 - The Ask It Basket for the Conference contained the question:



..



Q. Who receives the royalties from book sales? What did this amount to in

1974? In 1973?



..



A. They used to go to Bill, now go to heirs designated in his will. Amounts

are in your financial statements for 1973 and 1974. (1964 GSC-FR 40)



..



1978 - (1978 GSC-FR 43) contained the following: AA World Services, Inc, as

lessee, provides facilities for GSO and the Grapevine, both of which pay for

the space they occupy. As employer, AAWS pays GSO employees' salaries. And

as publisher, AAWS owns the copyrights on all Conference approved books and

literature. It pays Lois a royalty on the books Bill wrote. (This royalty

was Bill's only source of income from AA. He never received a salary.)



..



The Ask It Basket for the 1978 Conference contained the question:



..



Q Please explain the royalties on the AA books.



..



A The royalties agreement on the books Bill wrote are covered in a contract

between Bill and the board. The royalty is 15% of the retail price. The

contract provides that he could pass the royalties along to his widow, and

that she could pass them on to another family member who is over 40 years of

age at that time. Following the death of the family member, the royalties

cease to exist and the money reverts to AA. The dollar amount is reported

yearly in the Conference Report (see pg 50).



..



1980 - (1980 GSC-FR 31) contained the following:



..



Big Book tapes - We approved the price of $25. We sought legal counsel on

royalties and were advised that, as tapes were not covered in the original

contract between Bill W and the board, there is no legal obligation.

However, a moral obligation seemed t o exist. Lois W was consulted, and she

chooses to forgo any royalties for one year and then review the matter.



..



1983 - The copyright to the new material in the second edition Big Book

expired without being renewed. AAWS did not discover the oversight until

1985. (NG 299) (1983 GSC-FR 31) contained the following:



..



After discussion and thought by this board and by the trustees, we accepted

Lois W's proposal that the 1963 royalty agreement between Bill W and the

board be amended to permit her to bequeath part of her royalties to a

foundation for at least ten years after her death or until 1997, whichever

is later, and also a part to her nephew.



..



1984 - The Ask It Basket for the 1984 Conference contained the question: Q

Could you please explain the royalties being paid on our literature? (I) On

which pieces of literature do we pay royalties? (2) How much? (3) To whom?

(4) For how long? A (1) The royalties are paid on the books Bill W wrote and

are: Big Book; "AA Comes of Age," "As Bill Sees It," and "Twelve Steps and

Twelve Traditions." (2) - (4) The royalties are the result of an agreement

between AAWS and Bill W in 1963. Bill got 15% of the retail value of the

books, and Lois was to receive 13 ½% of the retail value of the books, which

she still receives today. As of last year, under the terms of the agreement

between Bill and AAWS, Lois could, on a one-time basis, bequeath 80% of the

royalties to individuals who were age 40 or more in 1963. The remaining 20%

could be left to anyone at any age. This agreement has now been amended, and

Lois can leave the royalties to other than an individual, such as a

foundation to maintain Stepping Stones. However, any royalties Lois wills to

a foundation will terminate ten years after her death. All other royalties

will revert back to the board upon the demise of the recipient. (1984 GSC-FR

32)



..



1985 - AAWS discovered that the copyrights to the first and second edition

of the Big Book had expired. The copyright on the first edition lapsed in

1967. The copyright on new material in the second edition lapsed in 1983.

Both AAWS and the Wilson estate shared responsibility for copyright renewal.

(NG 299, www)



..



The Ask It Basket for the 1984 Conference contained the question: Q When and

by whom was it decided that Lois's royalties could and would be bequeathed

to the next generation, and when will the royalties become AA's totally, if

ever? A The royalties are paid on the books Bill W wrote, which are: The Big

Book; "AA Comes of Age," "As Bill Sees It," and "Twelve Steps and Twelve

Traditions" (two editions). The royalties are the result of an agreement

between AAWS and Bill W in 1963. Lois was to receive 13 ½% of the retail

value of the books, which she still receives today. Under the terms of the

agreement between Bill and AAWS, Lois could, on a one-time basis, bequeath

80% of the royalties to individuals who were age 40 or more in 1963. The

remaining 20% could be left to individuals of any age. This agreement has

now been amended, and Lois can leave the royalties to other than an

individual, such as a foundation to maintain Stepping Stones. However, any

royalties Lois wills to a foundation will terminate ten years after her

death. All other royalties will revert back to the board upon the demise of

the recipient. In the amendment, Lois gives up the right to leave anything

to individuals younger than age 40 in 1963 except for an individual who was

a few months short of age 40 at that time. (1985 GSC-FR 32)



..











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


0 -1 0 0
5547 Arthur S
History of Royalties - Part 5 (last) History of Royalties - Part 5 (last) 2/23/2009 10:55:00 PM


1986 - (1986 GSC-FR 8) contained the following under the title "Update on

AA's copyrights."



..



The copyright on the first edition of the Big Book lapsed in 1967 and the

copyright on the new material in the second edition lapsed in 1983--both

because of a failure to renew them in a timely fashion. There was a mistaken

belief that registering the copyright on the second edition in 1956 served

to revive the copyright on the first edition; the misconception continued,

with respect to the second edition, when the third edition was copyrighted

in 1976.



..



But what was to be done about the royalties to Lois W prescribed in a 1963

agreement between Bill and AAWS Inc? We and Lois reaffirmed the intent of

Bill and the 1963 AAWS board by negotiating an amendment providing for the

continuation of the 1963 agreement as though the copyrights were still valid

and guaranteeing that Lois and AAWS, Inc, would each hold the other harmless

for the loss of the copyright in 1967.



..



1986 - (1986 GSC-FR 28-29) contained the following under the report from

AAWS:



..



We discovered that the copyright to the first edition of the Big Book lapsed

in 1967, and that the material in that book has been in the public domain

since that time. This event was precipitated by the publishing of a replica

of the first edition by CTM Inc. As a result, we engaged in significant

legal exchanges with that company, and we believe it has ceased to publish.

Future responsibility for copyrights has been placed in the hands of

attorneys.



..



An Agreement between Lois W and AAWS, Inc, was executed by Lois and John

Bragg (as president) on August 26, 1985, stipulating that: (1) Big Book

royalty payments will continue to be made as though the copyrights were

still in force; and (2) both AAWS and Lois (and her heirs) are released from

claims against the other for failure, if any, by AAWS, Inc or Bill W

(respectively) to apply for Big Book copyright renewal.



..



1988 - (1988 GSC-FR 32) contained the following under the report from AAWS:



..



Our copyright attorneys sent a letter to the publisher and Nan R, the

author, regarding her book "AA. -Inside Alcoholics Anonymous" which contains

excerpts from AA literature, the use of AA's trademark, and a violation of

the Twelfth Tradition. Due to lack of cooperation on the part of the author

and the publisher, we were advised by legal counsel to expeditiously take

all appropriate action with respect to trademark violation, including

litigation if necessary, regarding the book, which gives the impression it

is allied with AA and also threatens to be harmful to AA interests. As a

result some, but not all, objectionable features have been removed.



..



Agreed to renegotiate the renewal rights to As Bill Sees It once these

rights mature, and to discontinue negotiations with Lois W's attorney.



..



1988 - Oct 5, Lois W (age 97) co-founder of Al-Anon Family Groups, died.

(AACOA xi) Royalties passed to her surviving designated heirs who included

Dr Leonard Strong husband of Lois' sister-in-law Dorothy (Bill's sister), a

niece and nephew, Muriel Strong Morley and Leonard V Strong III, and

sisters-in-law Laura and Florence Burnham. Also listed were Nell Wing, Lois'

cousins Carol Lou Burnham, Ann Burhan Smith, Ann Walker, Dixon Walker and

Kate Knap plus Bill's cousins Jean Kalkoff and Barbara Palazari. 50% was

bequeathed to the Stepping Stones Foundation (to terminate on the later of

August 31, 1997 or 10 years after Lois' death).



..



1995 - (1995 GSC-FR 25) contained the following under the report from AAWS:

We discussed the proposal to settle with the recipients of our royalty

payments which would end our legal obligation to pay royalties. After

discussion, it was the consensus of the board that this would not be

beneficial at this point in time.



..



2007 - Based on data in final Conference Reports:



..



Cumulative royalties amounted to $656,095 up to Bill's death in January 1971

($4,151,978 in 2006 dollars). Cumulative royalties amounted to $9,063,985 up

to Lois' death in October 1988 ($23,259,233 in 2006 dollars). Cumulative

royalties from 1950 to 2007 totaled $19,148,182 ($37,117,034 in 2006

dollars).



..



Cheers



Arthur











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


0 -1 0 0
5548 jenny andrews
RE: Bill W quote: Our quarrels have not hurt us .... Bill W quote: Our quarrels have not hurt us .... 2/24/2009 3:55:00 AM


Don't know about a "convention", but this is

what Bill said in a talk recorded in As Bill

Sees It under the heading Trouble Becomes an

Asset:



"I think that this particular General Service

Conference (1958) holds promise and has been

filled with progress - because it has had

trouble ... If this Conference was ruffled,

if individuals were deeply disturbed - I say,

'This is fine.' What parliament, what republic,

what democracy has not been disturbed?

Friction of opposing viewpoints is the very

modus operandi on which they proceed. Then

what should we be afraid of?"



- - - -



To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

From: Baileygc23@aol.com

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:22:57 -0500

Subject: Bill W quote:

Our quarrels have not hurt us ....



Bill W. addressed one convention and said,

'Our quarrels have not hurt us one bit.'



Can anyone tell me which convention it was,

and where I can get a copy of his entire

address to that convention?









_________________________________________________________________

Check out the new and improved services from Windows Live. Learn more!

http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


0 -1 0 0
5549 jenny andrews
RE: Big Book royalties -- 10% to Helen W. Big Book royalties -- 10% to Helen W. 2/24/2009 4:07:00 AM


Re history of BB royalties: "Helen (Wynn) was

always broke ... (so) Bill decided that she

would inherit a percentage of his royalties

from the (Big) book..." (My Name is Bill,

Susan Cheever, Washington Square Press, 2004);



and,



"After Helen left the Grapevine in 1962, Bill

contributed to her support though when he

wanted to direct a portion of his royalty

income to her, the AA trustees refused to do

it. Bill was furious, and Helen was terribly

hurt. In 1963, though, prompted by his

worsening emphysema, Bill and AA executed a

new royalty agreement that called for Helen

to receive ten per cent of his book royalties,

and Lois 90 per cent after his death. Bill

also added a codicil to his will in which he

referred to this agreement and confirmed that

the allocation of royalty income it provided

was indeed his desire." (Bill W: a biography

of Alcoholics Anonymous cofounder Bill Wilson,

Francis Hartigan, Thomas Dunne Books,

St Martin's Griffin, 2000).


0 -1 0 0
5550 mdingle76
Re: History of Royalties - on AACOA History of Royalties - on AACOA 2/25/2009 10:09:00 AM


The following carbon copy was found in a file

cabinet belonging to Tom Powers at East Ridge:







Harper & Brothers Jun 3, 1957

49 E. 33rd Street

New York, NY



Attention: Mr Eugene Exman, Religious Editor



Gentlemen:



Referring to the coming publication by you of

"A.A. Comes of Age" of which I am the author,

I wish to make the following disposition of

my royalty of 15% for the duration of the

first copyright or for the duration of the

time you continue to distribute the book —

whichever is the greater.



In advance of this publication I would like to

assign my royalties to the following people,

for services rendered:



On the first five thousand books, I would like

my royalty equally divided between Mr. Tom

Powers of Chappaqua, New York, and Miss Nell

Wing of New York City.



Should you dispose of more than this quantity,

I would like my royalties on the remainder

divided equally between Mrs. Katherine Swentzel

of New York City and Mrs. Helen Riker of

Phoenix, Arizona.



On the death of any of these people, their

share of the royalty will become payable to

my account at Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing,

Inc., New York City.



Again, let me thank you deeply for the

wonderful cooperation that I have enjoyed in

the preparation of this book from all of you

concerned at Harpers.



Sincerely yours,



William G. Wilson



WGW/nw


0 -1 0 0
5551 Stockholm Fellowship
Royalties for Grapevine related literature Royalties for Grapevine related literature 2/26/2009 4:15:00 AM


Thank you for the recent history on the

royalties for the Big Book and other AAWS

literature. I was wondering if anyone knows

if royalties are paid to anyone from Grapevine

related literature. "Language of the Heart"

is a collection of all the Grapevine writings

of Bill W. and there have been other

anthologies as well. As the Grapevine is

official AA literature, though a separate

and self-supporting entity, I was curious

about any royalties there.


0 -1 0 0
5552 il22993us
Mottos on old anniversary chips Mottos on old anniversary chips 2/28/2009 9:55:00 AM


My father received his first chip sometime in

the late 1960's or 70's.



The chip says: "recover, serve, unite" rather

than "recovery, service, unity" (like the

chips we give out today).



His 2nd year chip has what we have now.



Does anyone know what year the words changed?

Was there a pattern here? Thanks!



Carole,

DOS: 07-03-2006


0 -1 0 0
5553 jax760
AA in New Jersey 70th Anniversary Celebration AA in New Jersey 70th Anniversary Celebration 2/27/2009 6:08:00 PM


8:00 PM Thursday May 14, 2009

Central Presbyterian Church

46 Park Street

Montclair, New Jersey



CELEBRATE THE 70th ANNIVERSARY

OF A.A. IN NEW JERSEY



Come Commemorate the Historic Occasion of the

First A.A. meeting in New Jersey on May 14, 1939.



(in cooperation with District 37 and the

New Haven Group of Montclair, New Jersey)



This will be an open speaker meeting recalling

The Early History of Alcoholics Anonymous in

Northern New Jersey. Come and experience the

archives displays detailing the history of

A.A. in Northern New Jersey.



God Bless,



John B



For more information e-mail: archives@nnjaa.org



And see the flyer at:

http://www.nnjaa.org/pdf/district37_montclair_anniv_2009-05-14.pdf



- - - -



http://www.nnjaa.org/area44/pdf/archives_first_meeting_2009-01-27.pdf



A.A. Group # 4 The New Jersey

Group of Alcoholics Anonymous



On May 14, 1939, a Sunday afternoon, the very

first meeting of what was to become the New

Jersey Group of Alcoholics Anonymous took place

in the home of Hank and Kathleen P. in Upper

Montclair. Meetings that had been formerly held

in Brooklyn were held in New Jersey for the next

5 or 6 weeks. The meetings began at 4:00 PM and

went most of the night. They rotated speakers

for the first portion according to Jimmy B.

who was living at Hank and Kathleen's home at

that time.



These were dinner meetings with Herb D. of

South Orange paying for a "big spread". The

wives always attended these meetings along

with their spouses.



At the May 14th meeting the attendees voted in

the Bill and Lois Home Replacement Fund and

each pledged different amounts of support.

Bill and Lois were doing an errand when they

voted on this. They arrived shortly thereafter

and Lois wrote in her diary that they were

thrilled.



Marty M., a Blythewood Sanitarium patient at

the time, took the train from Connecticut to

this historical event of Alcoholics Anonymous

in New Jersey.



The New Jersey Group of A.A. was later renamed

the South Orange Sunday Night Group.


0 -1 0 0
5554 johnlawlee
Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature Royalties for Grapevine related literature 2/26/2009 3:19:00 PM


--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

Stockholm Fellowship <stockholmfellowship@...>

wrote:

>

> Thank you for the recent history on the

> royalties for the Big Book and other AAWS

> literature. I was wondering if anyone knows

> if royalties are paid to anyone from Grapevine

> related literature. "Language of the Heart"

> is a collection of all the Grapevine writings

> of Bill W. and there have been other

> anthologies as well. As the Grapevine is

> official AA literature, though a separate

> and self-supporting entity, I was curious

> about any royalties there.

>

I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has ever

been self-supporting. It bleeds money. WSO

makes millions on the sale of the Big Books,

but that may be its only profitable venture.

Our Area is pushing for a Conference action

that would end subsidies for the magazine, and

would make it available in an online[only]free

version. That Action would save millions of

dollars and make the magazine available to

millions of people.



John Lee, Pittsburgh


0 -1 0 0
5555 diazeztone
Spelling of Ebby''s last name Spelling of Ebby''s last name 3/1/2009 6:22:00 PM


Is Ebby's last name Thatcher or Thacher?



LD Pierce

http://www.aabibliography.com



- - - -



From GFC, the moderator:



http://www.texasdistrict5.com/history-in-photos.htm

about 40% of the way down the page, has a photo of



Ebby's Headstone

Albany Rural Cemetery, Albany NY



The headstone reads:



Edwin T. Thacher

1896-1966



- - - -



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:

>

> Did Ebby -- being who he was, "Edwin

> Throckmorton Thacher, the brother of the

> Mayor of Albany, New York" -- really live,

> eat and sleep in the Calvary Mission --

> or was he kept in the much nicer Calvary

> Parish House?

>

> Bob S.

>

> P.S. There is a picture of the Calvary

> Church Parish House and Mission on the

> site below - thanks Art!

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Indyfourthdimension

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> Robert Stonebraker

> 212 SW 18th Street

> Richmond, IN 47347

> (765) 935-0130

>


0 -1 0 0
5556 stockholmfellowship
Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature Royalties for Grapevine related literature 3/1/2009 10:02:00 AM


http://www.aagrapevine.org/about/



The Grapevine is self-supporting.



I would be VERY disappointed if the AA

Grapevine stopped publishing the magazine.

I have lived in several countries overseas

and have enjoyed being able to take the

Grapevine as a portable meeting when in

transit or in countries where there is a

language barrier. And, I have a hard-copy

to pass on to others. In the States, where

I got sober, our service district would

bundle old copies of the Grapevine and give

them to prisons, hospitals and institutions.



Whatever, I just wanted to know if there are

any royalties paid by the AA Grapevine to

Bill W's estate for "Language of the Heart"

or any other such books.



- - - -



From: Jon Markle <serenitylodge@mac.com>

(serenitylodge at mac.com)



John Lee, could I ask you to support the

statement that "WSO makes millions on the

sale of the Big Books"?



I hope this doesn't go anywhere. There are

many people who do not use the internet, or

they do not have access to a computer. To

limit the Grapevine, or any other of our

literature to on-line access only would be a

great disservice to our Fellowship, in my

opinion. I don't see how this would fly.



Jon (Raleigh)

9/9/82



- - - -



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"johnlawlee" <johnlawlee@yahoo.com>

(johnlawlee at yahoo.com) wrote:

>

> --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

> Stockholm Fellowship <stockholmfellowship@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Thank you for the recent history on the

> > royalties for the Big Book and other AAWS

> > literature. I was wondering if anyone knows

> > if royalties are paid to anyone from Grapevine

> > related literature. "Language of the Heart"

> > is a collection of all the Grapevine writings

> > of Bill W. and there have been other

> > anthologies as well. As the Grapevine is

> > official AA literature, though a separate

> > and self-supporting entity, I was curious

> > about any royalties there.

> >

> I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has ever

> been self-supporting. It bleeds money. WSO

> makes millions on the sale of the Big Books,

> but that may be its only profitable venture.

> Our Area is pushing for a Conference action

> that would end subsidies for the magazine, and

> would make it available in an online[only]free

> version. That Action would save millions of

> dollars and make the magazine available to

> millions of people.

>

> John Lee, Pittsburgh

>


0 -1 0 0
5557 edgarc@aol.com
Grapevine finances Grapevine finances 3/1/2009 6:30:00 AM


In Message 5554 from <johnlawlee@yahoo.com>

(johnlawlee it yahoo.com)



John Lee of Pittsburgh said:



I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has

ever been self-supporting. It bleeds money.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The 990 (income tax) form filed by Alcoholics

Anonymous Grapevine, Inc. for 2007, the latest

year, shows total revenues of $2,825,277 and

total expenses of $2,850,324 for a deficit

for the year of $25,047, or a tad less than

1 per cent, which can hardly justify the

judgement that it "bleeds money."



As long as we're looking at the 990s, the tax

return for 2007 for General Service Board of

AA shows total revenue of $9,269,143 and total

expenses of $8,784,628 for an excess of

$484,515 or a little over 5%.



And the 990 for World Services, the publishing

arm, shows total revenue of $8,736,348 and

total expenses of $7,999,966 for an excess of

$736,382 or about 8.5 per cent.



All three tax returns are available to anyone

who registers (free) at Guidestar.org, which

provides a searchable database of information

about 1.7 million charities recognized by the

IRS . . .



Edgar C, Sarasota, Florida


0 -1 0 0
5558 mdingle76
Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation 2/25/2009 9:48:00 AM


From the little I've heard Tom P. (Bill's

editorial consultant and close friend) speak

of Wilson's 11th Step practice, he [Tom]

stated the following:



1) Praying in private was important — with the

door locked if possible. Use a partition if

you share a room with a spouse.



2) Saying the St. Francis prayer and the 23rd

Psalm — which Bill taught his sponsees to say.

Also, Bill's favorite Hymn was "Holy, Holy,

Holy."



3) Reading the Bible everyday.



For whatever it's worth!



Matt D.



- - - -



From: James Flynn <jdf10487@yahoo.com>

(jdf10487 at yahoo.com)



According to some biographers, Bill W. used

automatic writing as a means of receiving

guidance from a Higher Power. He also held

seances and experimented with other forms of

spiritualism.



Sincerely, Jim F.



- - - -



From GFC the moderator:



Bill & Lois's morning prayer

in Pass It On, page 265



Oh Lord, we thank Thee that Thou art,

that we are from everlasting to everlasting.



Blessed be Thy holy name and all Thy benefactions

to us of light, of love, and of service.

May we find and do Thy will

in good strength, in good cheer today.



May Thy ever-present grace be discovered

by family and friends

-- those here and those beyond --

by our Societies throughout the world,

by men and women everywhere,

and among those who must lead

in these troubled times.



Oh Lord, we know Thee to be all wonder,

all beauty, all glory, all power, all love.

Indeed, Thou art everlasting love.



Accordingly, Thou has fashioned for us a destiny

passing through Thy many mansions,

ever in more discovery of Thee

and in no separation between ourselves.



- - - -



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"ryantfowler@..." <ryantfowler@...> wrote:

>

> Does anyone know what Bill Wilson's meditation

> practices were like, especially toward the end

> of his life? Also, does anyone know when

> guided meditation meetings were first held?

>

> - - - -

>

> From the moderator:

>

> http://hindsfoot.org/medit11.doc

>

> "Twelve-Step Meditation in the A.A. Big Book

> and the 12 & 12"

>

> will give you an intro to a lot of this.

>

> Among other things, this article describes

> how Bill W. himself talked about the use of

> guided imagery on page 100 of the 12 + 12.

>

> The sections at the end of the article talk

> about:

>

> Quiet Time

>

> Jacobson's method of progressive relaxation

> (VERY effective, and too little known and

> used in AA)

>

> Emmet Fox, The Golden Key

> (plus Fox's method of reciting a mantra

> to quiet and calm the soul)

>

> Glenn C.

>


0 -1 0 0
5559 Baileygc23@aol.com
Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation 3/2/2009 2:23:00 PM


Bill W and his long time problems with

depression and other things brings to mind his

interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's

comments on their relationship, plus

Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia.



Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in

Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could

add another aspect to Bill W as well as

Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices.



George



- - - -



From the moderator, for more about

Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see:



http://silkworth.net/aabiography/earlem.html



Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!"

Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA.

(p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd

edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.)



"During his first year in A.A. he went to New

York and met Bill W. They became very close

and talked frequently both on the phone and

in person. He frequently visited Bill at his

home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one

of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a

topic they did not discuss in detail. He took

a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked

over his depressions with Earle."



"In a search for serenity Earle studied and

practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism,

Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor

worship."



GFC


0 -1 0 0
5560 John Barton
Re: Spelling of Ebby''s last name Spelling of Ebby''s last name 3/4/2009 2:44:00 PM


THACHER (not Thatcher)



You can see Ebby's signature in his own writing:

  http://silkworth.net/aahistory/Signatures_found_in_1st_Big_Book_04_1939.doc

 

Best Regards

 

John B



- - - -



Message 5446, Dec 21, 2008

from LES COLE <elsietwo@msn.com>

(elsietwo at msn.com)



I had, for years written Ebby's last name

with a "t". I don't know why it was but it

seemed OK. Then, recently, I found a picture

of Ebby's grave stone and learned how it

actually was spelled without the "t". That

was my answer.



In this new piece, "signatures" I see that

Ebby signed his own name without a "t,"

YET when Virginia MacLeod wrote he commentaries

on the same book pages, she wrote Thatcher

WITH a "t." Isn't it interesting that the

oft-repeated error got started that far back,

and when she saw Ebby's signature in the same

book, she established an early precedent?



Les

Colorado Springs, CO



- - - -



From GFC, the moderator: EBBY'S TOMBSTONE



http://www.texasdis trict5.com/ history-in- photos.htm

about 40% of the way down the page, has a photo of



Ebby's Headstone

Albany Rural Cemetery, Albany NY



The headstone reads:



Edwin T. Thacher

1896-1966



- - - -


0 -1 0 0
5561 Kimball ROWE
Re: Grapevine finances Grapevine finances 3/3/2009 9:48:00 AM


Please make the distinction between "The

Grapevine Magazine" and "Grapevine Inc."

They are not the same. The tax forms for

one cannot be use to support the other.

The "magazine" is the primary vehicle for

keeping the "Inc" afloat.



Off the soap box



- - - -



From: <elg3_79@yahoo.com>

(elg3_79 at yahoo.com)



I realize this discussion is wandering somewhat

from historical interest, but those of us who

take meetings into correctional facilities

where even paperback books are not allowed

depend on the Grapevine for our readings and

to be able to offer something material to the

inmates. An online version could be printed

out but does not have the same authenticity as

a printed, copyrighted Grapevine issue.



(Even without the staples, which we sometimes

must remove. The GV is rumored to be beginning

to make a shift to glued binding.)



Y'all's in service,



Ted G.


0 -1 0 0
5562 J. Lobdell
Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature Royalties for Grapevine related literature 2/28/2009 4:29:00 PM


But it would not, as it happens, make it

available to those in jail or prison, which

is where at least anecdotal evidence indicates

it is the most useful.



I would welcome historical evidence on whether

the grapevine has been self-supporting, but it

may be that -- historically, and this is

AAHistoryLovers -- the Grapevine was no more

envisioned as self-supporting in and of

itself than any variety of twelfth-step work

would be expected, if evaluated specifically

and separately from all other Twelfth-Step

activities, to be self-supporting in and of

itself.



I rather think the original "inkstained

wretches" may have carried the burden themselves

-- Marty and Priscilla and Lois K and Bud T

and Felicia and the guy who ran the bookshop

on 5th Avenue all had money.



Still, it would be interesting to know if it

was ever envisioned that the Grapevine would

pay for itself.



- - - -



> From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com

> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009



> I don't believe The Grapevine magazine has ever

> been self-supporting. It bleeds money ....

> Our Area is pushing for a Conference action

> that would end subsidies for the magazine, and

> would make it available in an online[only]free

> version. That Action would save millions of

> dollars and make the magazine available to

> millions of people.

>

> John Lee, Pittsburgh



- - - -



On Mar 3, 2009, at 9:48 AM, Kimball ROWE wrote:



> The GV is rumored to be beginning

> to make a shift to glued binding.)



- - - -



From: Cindy Miller <cm53@earthlink.net>

(cm53 at earthlink.net)



Rumor confirmed. I got mine last week.


0 -1 0 0
5563 mdingle76
Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation 3/5/2009 6:59:00 PM


One man who influenced Bill Wilson greatly was

Gerald Heard. Gerald was the man who introduced

Bill to Aldous Huxley. I suspect that Gene

Exman (the religious editor over at Harper

that Bill visited with the first 2 chapters

of the Big Book)introduced Bill to Gerald.



Anyway, Bill (and Lois) first visited Heard on

a trip to California in 1941. Heard had been

practicing yoga and earnestly studying the

Scriptures of many of the world's great

religions. Heard wrote many books on the

subject of God, religion and also UFO's (a

subject that Bill was very interested in and

would talk to Heard about at lengths). One of

Heard's books even made it into Dr. Bob's

library — "A Preface to Prayer."



Tom Powers often said that Heard was one of

Bill's sponsors. Heard was particularly

influenced by Sri Ramakrishna and Heard

donated his Monastery, Trabucco Canyon, to

the Vedanta Society of Southern California,

to be run by Swami Prabhavananda.



You can also read Gerald Heard's article in the

AA Grapevine called "The Search for Ecstasy."

He also wrote articles about AA published in

sources outside the Grapevine.



Gerald (and Dr. Cohen) oversaw the LSD

sessions that both Tom and Bill experienced.

(It was Tom and Bill who were sent to

California on AA Headquarters business to

get AA out on the big screen — a story for

a different day.)



Matt D.



______________________________



FROM THE MODERATOR: WIKIPEDIA SAYS



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Heard



"Henry Fitzgerald Heard commonly called Gerald

Heard (October 6, 1889 - August 14, 1971) was

a historian, science writer, educator, and

philosopher. He wrote many articles and over

35 books. Heard was a guide and mentor to

numerous well-known Americans, including

Clare Boothe Luce and Bill Wilson, co-founder

of Alcoholics Anonymous, in the 1950s and

1960s."



- - - -



Message 5228 from ArtSheehan@msn.com

(ArtSheehan at msn.com)



British radio commentator Gerald Heard

introduced Bill W to Aldous Huxley and

British psychiatrists Humphrey Osmond and

Abram Hoffer.



Bill joined with Heard and Huxley and first

took LSD in California on August 29, 1956.



Among those invited to experiment with LSD

(and who accepted) were Nell Wing, Father

Ed Dowling, Sam Shoemaker and Lois Wilson.

Marty M and other AA members participated in

New York (under medical supervision by a

psychiatrist from Roosevelt Hospital).



- - - -



Message 4806 from jlobdell54@hotmail.com Baileygc23@aol.com > (Baileygc23 at aol.com)



> Bill W and his long time problems with

> depression and other things brings to mind his

> interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's

> comments on their relationship, plus

> Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia.

>

> Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in

> Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could

> add another aspect to Bill W as well as

> Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices.

>

> George

>

> - - - -

>

> From the moderator, for more about

> Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see:

>

> http://silkworth.net/aabiography/earlem.html

>

> Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!"

> Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA.

> (p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd

> edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.)

>

> "During his first year in A.A. he went to New

> York and met Bill W. They became very close

> and talked frequently both on the phone and

> in person. He frequently visited Bill at his

> home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one

> of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a

> topic they did not discuss in detail. He took

> a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked

> over his depressions with Earle."

>

> "In a search for serenity Earle studied and

> practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism,

> Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor

> worship."

>

> GFC

>


0 -1 0 0
5564 Michael F. Margetis
Rowland or Roland Hazard? Rowland or Roland Hazard? 3/9/2009 12:15:00 PM


Hi all,



I see Rowland Hazard's name spelled as

"Roland" in many seemingly authoritative

documents. Even Dr. Jung's letter to Bill

he spells it "Roland". (Bill spells it

"Rowland")



Which is correct?



Thanks,



Mike Margetis

Brunswick, Maryland



- - - -



From Glenn C., the moderator:



The three most important works on this topic

are all based on a careful study of the

Hazard Family papers which are archived at

the Rhode Island Historical Society in

Providence.



Cora Finch's article also draws on material

in the Yale Collection of American Literature

at the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript

Library.



These letters, cancelled checks, and so on,

show that the family spelled the name

"Rowland Hazard," nickname "Roy."

____________________



Richard M. Dubiel, "The Road to Fellowship:

The Role of the Emmanuel Movement and the

Jacoby Club in the Development of Alcoholics

Anonymous"



http://hindsfoot.org/kDub1.html



http://hindsfoot.org/kDub2.html

____________________



Amy Colwell Bluhm, Ph.D., "Verification of

C. G. Jung’s analysis of Rowland Hazard and

the history of Alcoholics Anonymous" in the

American Psychological Association's journal

History of Psychology in November 2006.

____________________



Cora Finch, Stellar Fire: Carl Jung, a New

England Family, and the Risks of Anecdote



http://www.stellarfire.org/

____________________



ROWLAND HAZARD WENT TO CARL JUNG FOR

PSYCHOANALYSIS IN 1926, NOT 1931



Bill W. thought that Rowland had gone to see

Carl Jung in 1931, but Richard Dubiel showed

(from letters in the Hazard family papers)

that there was no time in 1931 when Rowland

could have engaged in a long psychoanalysis

by Carl Jung in Switzerland.



Subsequently, Bluhm and Finch, working

independently, discovered in the Hazard

family papers letters (including one from

Rowland Hazard himself, enthusiastically

describing how well his psychoanalysis by

Jung was progessing) which made it clear

that it was 1926 when Rowland was

psychoanalyzed by Jung.



The following is taken from Cora Finch's

article:



- - - -



[In early 1926] Rowland and Helen Hazard had been on vacation in Bermuda with

Rowland's sister and her husband. Rowland apparently lost control of his

drinking, an argument developed, and Helen sent him home by himself.26 The

letters are vague, but there is an implication that the crisis was precipitated

by a revelation of infidelity on Rowland's part. Helen cabled Leonard asking him

to meet Rowland in New York when he arrived on 25 March and take him to Dr.

Riggs' sanitarium in Stockbridge, Massachusetts.27



After listening to Rowland's side of the story, Leonard suspected that the

marital problems were more prominent than the drinking. He encouraged Rowland

and Helen to consider a different plan. In a letter from Bermuda, Helen wrote,

"I agree with you that Dr. Riggs does not seem to have had the ability to help

Roy to help himself."28 Helen returned in early April, and Leonard continued to

meet with each of them, separately. They agreed that going to Europe to see Dr.

Jung together would be the best thing.



George Porter, an old friend of Rowland, supported Leonard's campaign of

persuasion.29 Rowland and George were in the same class at Yale, and George was

an usher in Rowland's wedding. George Porter was a former patient and active

supporter of Jung. Jung's popularity with wealthy Americans had begun with his

treatment of Porter's friend, Medill McCormick, in 1908.



By 17 April 1926, Rowland and Helen were on a steamer bound for Europe. After

short stops in London, Paris and Brussels, they arrived in Zurich 6 May. A

letter from Rowland to Leonard, dated only "May 15,"30 is written on the

stationary of the Dolder Grand Hotel of Zurich. Details in that letter match

closely those of a letter from Jung to Leonard dated May 16th, 1926 ("Hazard and

his wife are here").31 Both letters indicate that Rowland had begun work with

Jung, and Helen with Jung's assistant, Toni Wolff.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[ROWLAND HAZARD'S MAY 1926 LETTER

DESCRIBING HIS SESSIONS CURRENTLY

GOING ON WITH CARL JUNG]



"I think we get along splendidly. The first

day he saw me, J. asked for dreams. That night

I produced three corkers — He read them and

remarked, "these are fine, fine — but for

God's sake don't dream any more" We've been

at work interpreting them and it all seems

most fascinating and logical to me."



"Old boy, this is the dope for me, I'm sure.

Thank God for it, and for you for sending

me here." 32

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



On 24 June 1926, Rowland's bank account showed an expense of $5,002.50, "to

cover charge put through by F.L. & T. Co. a/c sum cabled to RH on his request."

It is itemized to "travel."33 The equivalent in today's dollars would be more

than $50,000. Some of the money would have been needed for hotel expenses and

meals, but even the Hazards could not have spent very much of it on travel. Most

of the money was presumably needed to cover Jung's fees.



The New York Times social notes column of 24 July 1926 included a mention that

"Mr. and Mrs. Rowland Hazard of Peace Dale, RI are at the Ritz-Carlton." By 2

August, Rowland was back in Peace Dale. He told Aunt Caroline about his analysis

and showed her the drawings he had made ("The drawings are quite astonishing,

symbolical things — Roy seems well and vigorous").34



NOTES



27. Rowland had stayed at the sanitarium during the summer of 1925 and visited

Dr. Riggs about once a month through the end of that year, and at least once in

1926 (bank account ledger, Rhode Island Historical Society). Austen Fox Riggs,

according to John M. Hadley in his Clinical and Counseling Psychology (New York:

Knopf, 1958), "was eminently successful in using methods of reeducation and

environmental control. He was opposed to psychoanalytic theory although he

recognized the significance of early experiences in the development of

psychoneuroses." p 216

28. Helen Hazard to Leonard Bacon, dated only "Friday," (apparently 26 March

1926, based on the contents), "Hazard Family" folder, Beinecke Library

29. Leonard Bacon to Patty Bacon, 2 April 1926, Beinecke Library

30. Rowland Hazard to Leonard Bacon, 15 May, Bacon papers, "Hazard Family"

folder, Beinecke Library

31. Carl Gustaf Jung to Leonard Bacon, 16 May 1926, Bacon papers, Beinecke

Library

32. Rowland Hazard to Leonard Bacon, Ibid.

33. Rowland Hazard III bank account ledger, RIHS

24. Caroline Hazard to Leonard Bacon, Beinecke Library


0 -1 0 0
5565 aadavidi
Father Martin dies Father Martin dies 3/9/2009 12:38:00 PM


http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/\

03-09-2009/0004985249&EDATE=




The Rev. Joseph C. Martin, Leading Authority on

Alcoholism and Addiction Treatment, Dies at 84



Catholic Priest Co-Founded Father Martin's

Ashley Treatment Center in Maryland



HAVRE DE GRACE, Md., March 9 /PRNewswire/ -- The Rev. Joseph C. Martin, S.S.,

noted authority and lecturer on alcoholism who co-founded Father Martin's

Ashley, an addiction treatment center in Havre de Grace, MD, died today at his

home in Havre de Grace. He was 84.



Best known for his lectures on alcoholism as a disease, delivered to alcoholics

and their families with his charismatic style and sense of humor, Fr. Martin is

credited with saving the lives of thousands of alcoholics and addicts. While he

retired from active management in 2003, he continued to lecture at Father

Martin's Ashley, addressing patients as recently as November 2008.



"Today, the entire treatment community mourns the loss of an icon," said the

Rev. Mark Hushen, president and chief executive officer of Father Martin's

Ashley. "The death of Father Martin marks the end of an era.



"His world renowned 'Chalk Talk on Alcohol' changed the lives of thousands of

recovering alcoholics," Hushen said. "His humor and spirituality infused his

teachings with hope. He believed in the innate dignity of the human person and

founded Father Martin's Ashley as an oasis where alcoholics and addicts could

heal."



Fr. Martin's "Chalk Talk on Alcohol" lecture, which began: "I'm Joe Martin, and

I'm an alcoholic," and more than 40 motivational films, are legendary. His

films, which have been translated into multiple languages, continue to be used

at treatment centers around the world, in hospitals, substance abuse programs,

industry, and most branches of the U.S. government. He is the author of several

publications, including Chalk Talks on Alcohol, published by Harper & Row in

1982, which is still in print.



Fr. Martin and Father Martin's Ashley co-founder Mae Abraham raised funds to buy

and renovate Oakington, the estate owned by the widow of U.S. Senator Millard

Tydings located on the Chesapeake Bay near Havre de Grace. The center, which

opened in 1983, has since provided treatment to more than 40,000 people

suffering from the disease of addiction and has provided program services to

their families. Two years after Father Martin's Ashley opened its doors, Forbes

magazine ranked it as one of the top ten addiction treatment facilities in the

country. Today, patients come from the East Coast and across the U.S. to the

85-bed facility, which has a reputation for treating alcohol and drug addiction

and relapse with respect for the dignity of each individual who enters its

doors.



In 1972, the U.S. Navy filmed Martin's "The Blackboard Talk," which they then

dubbed "The Chalk Talk." It became known throughout the U.S. military and

established Fr. Martin as a recognized leader in the addiction treatment field.



In 1991, Fr. Martin was invited by Pope John Paul II to participate in the

Vatican's International Conference on Drugs and Alcohol. He made four trips to

Russia under the auspices of the International Institute on Alcohol Education

and Training, and also traveled to Switzerland and Poland to speak to Alcoholics

Anonymous groups as well as to addiction counselors in training.



Fr. Martin's honors and awards include the Andrew White Medal from Loyola

College, Baltimore, for his contributions to the general welfare of the

citizenry of Maryland; Rutgers University's Summer School of Alcohol Studies'

Distinguished Service Award (1988); and Norman Vincent Peale Award (1992).



Born the fourth of seven children in Baltimore on October 12, 1924, Fr. Martin

graduated from Loyola High School in 1942, where he was valedictorian. He then

attended Loyola College (1942-44). He studied for the priesthood at St. Mary's

Seminary and St. Mary's Roland Park in Baltimore (1944-48), and was ordained a

priest of the Society of Saint Sulpice, whose mission is to train and educate

seminarians, in 1948.



Fr. Martin held teaching positions at St. Joseph's College in Mountain View, CA

(1948-56) and St. Charles College, Catonsville, MD (1956-59).



In 1958, Fr. Martin began his recovery from alcoholism. Following treatment, he

worked as a lecturer and educator in the Division of Alcohol Control for the

state of Maryland prior to founding Father Martin's Ashley.



"As Father Martin passes through death to life, his legacy lives on at Ashley as

we continue his mission of hope and healing," said Fr. Hushen. "Truly, the world

is a better place for his having been here."



Fr. Martin is survived by Mae and Tommy Abraham, with whom he lived for more

than 30 years, siblings Dorothy, Frances, and Edward; and numerous nieces,

nephews, and their children.



The viewing will be held on Thursday, March 12,

from 1 pm to 9 pm at St. Mary's Seminary in

Baltimore.



Fr. Martin's Mass of Celebration of the

Resurrection will be held on Friday, March 13

at 10 am at the Basilica of the National

Shrine of the Assumption of the Blessed

Virgin Mary, Cathedral Street, Baltimore,

Maryland. Interment will be private.



Expressions of remembrance may be e-mailed to

ashley.marketing@fmashley.com or mailed to

Father Martin Remembrance, Father Martin's

Ashley, 800 Tydings Lane, Havre de Grace,

MD 21078. They will be posted on the Father

Martin's Ashley Web site at

http://www.fathermartinsashley.org



In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to

Father Martin's Ashley treatment center,

800 Tydings Lane, Havre de Grace, MD 21078

or to The Associated Sulpicians of the U.S.,

5408 Roland Avenue, Baltimore, MD 21210.


0 -1 0 0
5566 Glenn Chesnut
Father Joseph Martin''s passing Father Joseph Martin''s passing 3/9/2009 8:55:00 PM


From: "John Blair" <jblair@wmis.net>

(jblair at wmis.net)



http://www.fathermartinsashley.org/



In remembrance of Father Martin...



Father Joseph C. Martin, S.S. - October 12,

1924 - March 9, 2009. "My name is Joe Martin,

and I'm an alcoholic." Father Martin first

uttered this statement in 1958, when he was

in treatment for alcoholism at the Guest House,

what would prove to be a refuge for him from

his drinking and a turning point in his life.

His personal journey in recovery prompted a

celebrated career in which his only aim was

to ease the suffering of individuals and

families, around the world, affected by

addiction.



He was born on October 12, 1924 in Baltimore,

Maryland . He quickly developed a fondness

for religion and faith. People fondly recall

his special story-telling ability and wonderful

sense of humor. In 1942, Father Martin

graduated from Loyola College and entered

St. Mary's seminary. He was ordained a priest

in 1948 and underwent rigorous training to

become a Sulpician, a highly regarded teaching

society within the Catholic Church. After

losing this coveted distinction as a result

of his drinking, only in sobriety did he

regain this title.



Father Martin taught minor seminarians and

fulfilled several teaching roles within the

church. It was very evident that he possessed

a special ability to educate but his drinking

became very troublesome and he was eventually

directed to seek help at the Guest House.

Father Martin frequently cited the tremendous

impact his mentor Austin Ripley had on his

journey in recovery. Many of Father Martin's

teachings originated in concepts he learned

while at the Guest House. His enthusiasm for

sobriety coupled with his passion for teaching

evolved into an unending quest to ease the

suffering of individuals and families affected

by addiction. In his career, spanning more than

35 years, Father Martin was catapulted into

international acclaim as a prized speaker and

educator on addiction and recovery thru the

Twelve Steps. He founded Kelly Productions in

1972 and used it as a platform to capture the

minds and hearts of millions of people.



Father Martin's message is no less relevant

today than in 1972. He will continue to inspire

love, service, helpfulness to others, and

recovery through the use of his films, audio

lectures, and books. In his last year, he

shared his vision that he can be remembered so

that the still suffering individual affected

by addiction might benefit from his God-inspired

message of hope.



VIEWING:

Thursday, March 12th, 2009

From 1p-9p

St. Mary's Seminary

Laubacher Hall

5400 Roland Avenue

Baltimore, MD 21210



FUNERAL MASS:

Friday, March 13th, 2009

10 am

The Basilica of the National Shrine of the

Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

409 Cathedral Street

Baltimore, MD 21201


0 -1 0 0
5567 Glenn Chesnut
Hear Father Martin speak on YouTube Hear Father Martin speak on YouTube 3/9/2009 9:34:00 PM


From: "John Blair" <jblair@wmis.net>

(jblair at wmis.net)

 

Father Joe Martin's Channel on YouTube:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/fatherjoemartin

 


0 -1 0 0
5568 kauaihulahips
Archival repositories Archival repositories 3/9/2009 3:11:00 PM


What A.A. Areas at present have free-standing

repositories for their archives?



Could people from some of these already existing

archival repositories send me information about

what they have for their Area?



For example, what is the square footage?

how much is the rent? utilities? area annual

budget/beakdown?



What does the facility look like?



Any tips for our new area standing chair

and our new archivist?



<kauaihulahips@yahoo.com>

(kauaihulahips at yahoo.com)


0 -1 0 0
5569 juan.aa98
Dick Perez from the Akron Area Dick Perez from the Akron Area 3/9/2009 12:47:00 AM


Where can I find the full story on Dick Perez

from the Akron Area?



What books or documents are there which would

mention Dick Perez or talk about his life in AA?


0 -1 0 0
5570 James Flynn
Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation 3/8/2009 7:56:00 AM


Thank you for this, it has long been my

belief that Bill W's spirituality is best

defined as New Age Spirituality, rather than

fundamentalist Christian spirituality.



This information helps to confirm my

suspicions that Bill was actually very

eclectic in his approach to spirituality

and might even been seen as a heretic by

more traditional religious sects and 

denominations.

 

Sincerely, Jim F.



- - - -



From the moderator: and along this same

line, one of the first prominent Protestant

theologians to give approval to the new

A.A. movement was HARRY EMERSON FOSDICK,

the author of the famous anti-fundamentalist

sermon "SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?"



Pass It On page 201: "Dr. Harry Emerson

Fosdick, the highly respected minister of

the Riverside Church, warmly approved an

advance copy [of the Big Book] and promised

to review the book when it was published."



Harry Emerson Fosdick from Wikipedia:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Emerson_Fosdick



Fosdick was the most prominent liberal ...

minister of the early 20th Century ....

Fosdick became a central figure in the

conflict between fundamentalist and liberal

forces within American Protestantism in the

1920s and 1930s. While at First Presbyterian

Church, on May 21, 1922, he delivered his

famous sermon “Shall the Fundamentalists Win?”

in which he defended the modernist position.

In that sermon, he presented the Bible as a

record of the unfolding of God’s will, not as

the literal Word of God. He saw the history

of Christianity as one of development,

progress, and gradual change. To the

fundamentalists, this was rank apostasy,

and the battle lines were drawn.



The General Assembly of the Presbyterian

Church, U.S.A. (Northern) in 1923 charged his

local presbytery to conduct an investigation

of his views .... Fosdick escaped probable

censure at a formal trial by the 1924 General

Assembly by resigning from the pulpit in 1924.

He was immediately hired as pastor of a Baptist

church whose most famous member was John D.

Rockefeller, Jr., who then funded the Riverside

Church in Manhattan's Morningside Heights area

overlooking the Hudson River, where Fosdick

became pastor as soon as the doors opened in

October 1930.



Rockefeller had funded the nation-wide

distribution of "Shall the Fundamentalists Win?"

although with a more cautious title, "The New

Knowledge and the Christian Faith."



[Fosdick] is also the author of the hymn,

"God of Grace and God of Glory."



Fosdick's book A Guide to Understanding the

Bible traces the beliefs of the people who

wrote the Bible, from the ancient beliefs of

the Hebrews, which he regarded as practically

pagan, to the faith and hopes of the New

Testament writers.



His brother, Raymond Fosdick, was essentially

in charge of philanthropy for John D. Rockefeller,

Jr.



Fosdick reviewed the first edition of

Alcoholics Anonymous in 1939, giving it

his approval.



- - - -



Harry Emerson Fosdick’s famous

anti-fundamentalist sermon (1922):



"SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?"



Full text of the sermon given at

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5070/



- - - -



--- On Thu, 3/5/09, mdingle76 <mdingle76@yahoo.com> wrote:



From: mdingle76 <mdingle76@yahoo.com>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Bill Wilson's meditation practices and guided

meditation

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 3:59 PM



One man who influenced Bill Wilson greatly was

Gerald Heard. Gerald was the man who introduced

Bill to Aldous Huxley. I suspect that Gene

Exman (the religious editor over at Harper

that Bill visited with the first 2 chapters

of the Big Book)introduced Bill to Gerald.



Anyway, Bill (and Lois) first visited Heard on

a trip to California in 1941. Heard had been

practicing yoga and earnestly studying the

Scriptures of many of the world's great

religions. Heard wrote many books on the

subject of God, religion and also UFO's (a

subject that Bill was very interested in and

would talk to Heard about at lengths). One of

Heard's books even made it into Dr. Bob's

library — "A Preface to Prayer."



Tom Powers often said that Heard was one of

Bill's sponsors. Heard was particularly

influenced by Sri Ramakrishna and Heard

donated his Monastery, Trabucco Canyon, to

the Vedanta Society of Southern California,

to be run by Swami Prabhavananda.



You can also read Gerald Heard's article in the

AA Grapevine called "The Search for Ecstasy."

He also wrote articles about AA published in

sources outside the Grapevine.



Gerald (and Dr. Cohen) oversaw the LSD

sessions that both Tom and Bill experienced.

(It was Tom and Bill who were sent to

California on AA Headquarters business to

get AA out on the big screen — a story for

a different day.)



Matt D.



____________ _________ _________



FROM THE MODERATOR: WIKIPEDIA SAYS



http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Gerald_Heard



"Henry Fitzgerald Heard commonly called Gerald

Heard (October 6, 1889 - August 14, 1971) was

a historian, science writer, educator, and

philosopher. He wrote many articles and over

35 books. Heard was a guide and mentor to

numerous well-known Americans, including

Clare Boothe Luce and Bill Wilson, co-founder

of Alcoholics Anonymous, in the 1950s and

1960s."



- - - -



Message 5228 from ArtSheehan@msn. com

(ArtSheehan at msn.com)



British radio commentator Gerald Heard

introduced Bill W to Aldous Huxley and

British psychiatrists Humphrey Osmond and

Abram Hoffer.



Bill joined with Heard and Huxley and first

took LSD in California on August 29, 1956.



Among those invited to experiment with LSD

(and who accepted) were Nell Wing, Father

Ed Dowling, Sam Shoemaker and Lois Wilson.

Marty M and other AA members participated in

New York (under medical supervision by a

psychiatrist from Roosevelt Hospital).



- - - -



Message 4806 from jlobdell54@hotmail. com

(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)



I have recently seen on a couple of AA-related

history sites a statement that H. F. Heard was

a pen-name for Aldous Huxley.



In fact H. F. Heard was Henry FitzGerald Heard

(1889-1971) who also wrote as Gerald Heard.



He was a friend of Aldous Huxley (and of Bill

Wilson) but he certainly was not Aldous

Huxley.

____________ _________ _________



MATT D. IS RESPONDING TO MESSAGE 5559 from

<Baileygc23@aol. com> (Baileygc23 at aol.com)



> Bill W and his long time problems with

> depression and other things brings to mind his

> interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's

> comments on their relationship, plus

> Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia.

>

> Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in

> Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could

> add another aspect to Bill W as well as

> Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices.

>

> George

>

> - - - -

>

> From the moderator, for more about

> Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see:

>

> http://silkworth. net/aabiography/ earlem.html

>

> Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!"

> Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA.

> (p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd

> edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.)

>

> "During his first year in A.A. he went to New

> York and met Bill W. They became very close

> and talked frequently both on the phone and

> in person. He frequently visited Bill at his

> home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one

> of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a

> topic they did not discuss in detail. He took

> a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked

> over his depressions with Earle."

>

> "In a search for serenity Earle studied and

> practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism,

> Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor

> worship."

>

> GFC

>


0 -1 0 0
5571 Shakey1aa@aol.com
Icky the Dynamite man Icky the Dynamite man 3/9/2009 6:34:00 PM


I'm trying to get more info on Icky From

Houston: Page 80 AACOA (the dynamite man).



What's his date of sobriety, home group,

etc., does anyone know?



I have a 1st. edit. Stools & Bottles signed

by Ed Webster and inscribed to Icky, dated

1961. The gentleman I purchased it from told

me he got it in Houston.



I'd like to know more about Icky so that I

can pretend to be knowledgeable when the book

is displayed.



Thank You,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz


0 -1 0 0
5572 priscilla_semmens
Anyone know anything about the first prison group? Anyone know anything about the first prison group? 3/9/2009 10:37:00 PM


The first prison AA Group, we are told, was

formed at San Quentin.



Who formed it? When was it formed? Why was

it formed? etc.


0 -1 0 0
5573 bob gordon
Re: Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation Bill Wilson''s meditation practices and guided meditation 3/10/2009 3:40:00 AM


Here's the relevant part of Fosdick's review:



The core of their whole procedure is religious.

They are convinced that for the hopeless

alcoholic there is only one way out - the

expulsion of his obsession by a Power greater

than himself. Let it be said at once that there

is nothing partisan or sectarian about this

religious experience. Agnostics and atheists,

along with Catholics, Jews and Protestants,

tell their story of discovering the Power

Greater Than Themselves. "WHO ARE YOU TO SAY

THAT THERE IS N0 GOD," one atheist in this

group heard a voice say when, hospitalized for

alcoholism, he faced the utter hopelessness of

his condition. Nowhere is the tolerance and

open-mindedness of the book more evident than

in its treatment of this central matter on

which the cure of all these men and women has

depended.



They are not partisans of any particular form

of organized religion, although they strongly

recommend that some religious fellowship be

found by their participants. By religion they

mean an experience which they personally know

and which has saved them from their slavery,

when psychiatry and medicine had failed They

agree that each man must have his own way of

conceiving God, but of God Himself they are

utterly sure, and their stories of victory in

consequence are a notable addition to William

James' "Varieties of Religious Experience."



Although the book has the accent of reality and

is written with unusual intelligence and skill,

humor and modesty mitigating what could easily

have been a strident and harrowing tale.



- Harry Emerson Fosdick



- - - -



On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:56 AM, James Flynn <jdf10487@yahoo.com> wrote:



> Thank you for this, it has long been my

> belief that Bill W's spirituality is best

> defined as New Age Spirituality, rather than

> fundamentalist Christian spirituality.

>

> This information helps to confirm my

> suspicions that Bill was actually very

> eclectic in his approach to spirituality

> and might even been seen as a heretic by

> more traditional religious sects and

> denominations.

>

> Sincerely, Jim F.

>

> - - - -

>

> From the moderator: and along this same

> line, one of the first prominent Protestant

> theologians to give approval to the new

> A.A. movement was HARRY EMERSON FOSDICK,

> the author of the famous anti-fundamentalist

> sermon "SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?"

>

> Pass It On page 201: "Dr. Harry Emerson

> Fosdick, the highly respected minister of

> the Riverside Church, warmly approved an

> advance copy [of the Big Book] and promised

> to review the book when it was published."

>

> Harry Emerson Fosdick from Wikipedia:

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Emerson_Fosdick

>

> Fosdick was the most prominent liberal ...

> minister of the early 20th Century ....

> Fosdick became a central figure in the

> conflict between fundamentalist and liberal

> forces within American Protestantism in the

> 1920s and 1930s. While at First Presbyterian

> Church, on May 21, 1922, he delivered his

> famous sermon “Shall the Fundamentalists Win?”

> in which he defended the modernist position.

> In that sermon, he presented the Bible as a

> record of the unfolding of God’s will, not as

> the literal Word of God. He saw the history

> of Christianity as one of development,

> progress, and gradual change. To the

> fundamentalists, this was rank apostasy,

> and the battle lines were drawn.

>

> The General Assembly of the Presbyterian

> Church, U.S.A. (Northern) in 1923 charged his

> local presbytery to conduct an investigation

> of his views .... Fosdick escaped probable

> censure at a formal trial by the 1924 General

> Assembly by resigning from the pulpit in 1924.

> He was immediately hired as pastor of a Baptist

> church whose most famous member was John D.

> Rockefeller, Jr., who then funded the Riverside

> Church in Manhattan's Morningside Heights area

> overlooking the Hudson River, where Fosdick

> became pastor as soon as the doors opened in

> October 1930.

>

> Rockefeller had funded the nation-wide

> distribution of "Shall the Fundamentalists Win?"

> although with a more cautious title, "The New

> Knowledge and the Christian Faith."

>

> [Fosdick] is also the author of the hymn,

> "God of Grace and God of Glory."

>

> Fosdick's book A Guide to Understanding the

> Bible traces the beliefs of the people who

> wrote the Bible, from the ancient beliefs of

> the Hebrews, which he regarded as practically

> pagan, to the faith and hopes of the New

> Testament writers.

>

> His brother, Raymond Fosdick, was essentially

> in charge of philanthropy for John D. Rockefeller,

> Jr.

>

> Fosdick reviewed the first edition of

> Alcoholics Anonymous in 1939, giving it

> his approval.

>

> - - - -

>

> Harry Emerson Fosdick’s famous

> anti-fundamentalist sermon (1922):

>

> "SHALL THE FUNDAMENTALISTS WIN?"

>

> Full text of the sermon given at

> http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5070/

>

> - - - -

>

>

> --- On Thu, 3/5/09, mdingle76 <mdingle76@yahoo.com <mdingle76%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

>

> From: mdingle76 <mdingle76@yahoo.com <mdingle76%40yahoo.com>>

> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Bill Wilson's meditation practices and

> guided meditation

> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com <AAHistoryLovers%40yahoogroups.com>

> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 3:59 PM

>

>

> One man who influenced Bill Wilson greatly was

> Gerald Heard. Gerald was the man who introduced

> Bill to Aldous Huxley. I suspect that Gene

> Exman (the religious editor over at Harper

> that Bill visited with the first 2 chapters

> of the Big Book)introduced Bill to Gerald.

>

> Anyway, Bill (and Lois) first visited Heard on

> a trip to California in 1941. Heard had been

> practicing yoga and earnestly studying the

> Scriptures of many of the world's great

> religions. Heard wrote many books on the

> subject of God, religion and also UFO's (a

> subject that Bill was very interested in and

> would talk to Heard about at lengths). One of

> Heard's books even made it into Dr. Bob's

> library — "A Preface to Prayer."

>

> Tom Powers often said that Heard was one of

> Bill's sponsors. Heard was particularly

> influenced by Sri Ramakrishna and Heard

> donated his Monastery, Trabucco Canyon, to

> the Vedanta Society of Southern California,

> to be run by Swami Prabhavananda.

>

> You can also read Gerald Heard's article in the

> AA Grapevine called "The Search for Ecstasy."

> He also wrote articles about AA published in

> sources outside the Grapevine.

>

> Gerald (and Dr. Cohen) oversaw the LSD

> sessions that both Tom and Bill experienced.

> (It was Tom and Bill who were sent to

> California on AA Headquarters business to

> get AA out on the big screen — a story for

> a different day.)

>

> Matt D.

>

> ____________ _________ _________

>

> FROM THE MODERATOR: WIKIPEDIA SAYS

>

> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Gerald_Heard

>

> "Henry Fitzgerald Heard commonly called Gerald

> Heard (October 6, 1889 - August 14, 1971) was

> a historian, science writer, educator, and

> philosopher. He wrote many articles and over

> 35 books. Heard was a guide and mentor to

> numerous well-known Americans, including

> Clare Boothe Luce and Bill Wilson, co-founder

> of Alcoholics Anonymous, in the 1950s and

> 1960s."

>

> - - - -

>

> Message 5228 from ArtSheehan@msn. com

> (ArtSheehan at msn.com)

>

> British radio commentator Gerald Heard

> introduced Bill W to Aldous Huxley and

> British psychiatrists Humphrey Osmond and

> Abram Hoffer.

>

> Bill joined with Heard and Huxley and first

> took LSD in California on August 29, 1956.

>

> Among those invited to experiment with LSD

> (and who accepted) were Nell Wing, Father

> Ed Dowling, Sam Shoemaker and Lois Wilson.

> Marty M and other AA members participated in

> New York (under medical supervision by a

> psychiatrist from Roosevelt Hospital).

>

> - - - -

>

> Message 4806 from jlobdell54@hotmail. com

> (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)

>

> I have recently seen on a couple of AA-related

> history sites a statement that H. F. Heard was

> a pen-name for Aldous Huxley.

>

> In fact H. F. Heard was Henry FitzGerald Heard

> (1889-1971) who also wrote as Gerald Heard.

>

> He was a friend of Aldous Huxley (and of Bill

> Wilson) but he certainly was not Aldous

> Huxley.

> ____________ _________ _________

>

> MATT D. IS RESPONDING TO MESSAGE 5559 from

> <Baileygc23@aol. com> (Baileygc23 at aol.com)

>

> > Bill W and his long time problems with

> > depression and other things brings to mind his

> > interactions with Dr Earle and Dr Earle's

> > comments on their relationship, plus

> > Dr Earle and his search for serenity in Asia.

> >

> > Since Dr Earle's attempt to find solace in

> > Eastern ideas had Bill W's interest, it could

> > add another aspect to Bill W as well as

> > Dr Earle's efforts at meditation practices.

> >

> > George

> >

> > - - - -

> >

> > From the moderator, for more about

> > Dr. Earle M., whom George refers to, see:

> >

> > http://silkworth. net/aabiography/ earlem.html

> >

> > Biography: "Physician Heal Thyself!"

> > Dr. Earle M., San Francisco Bay Area, CA.

> > (p. 393 in 2nd edition, p. 345 in 3rd

> > edition, p. 301 in the 4th edition.)

> >

> > "During his first year in A.A. he went to New

> > York and met Bill W. They became very close

> > and talked frequently both on the phone and

> > in person. He frequently visited Bill at his

> > home, Stepping Stones. He called Bill one

> > of his sponsors, and said there was hardly a

> > topic they did not discuss in detail. He took

> > a Fifth Step with Bill. And Bill often talked

> > over his depressions with Earle."

> >

> > "In a search for serenity Earle studied and

> > practiced many forms of religion: Hinduism,

> > Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancestor

> > worship."

> >

> > GFC

> >

>

>


0 -1 0 0
5574 Arthur S
RE: Icky the Dynamite man Icky the Dynamite man 3/10/2009 11:26:00 AM


Hey Mike



E. D. "Icky" Sheridan was the Panel 1 Delegate

from the Houston, Texas Area in 1951 (he

resided at 5020 Griggs Rd) and served on the

Conference Agenda Committee.



Icky later moved to Dallas, Texas (he resided

at 4569 Lorraine Ave) and became the first

Class B Trustee from Texas serving from 1955

to 1959. He replaced Earl Treat and was

designated as "Second V.P." Records from GSO

report him as passing away on 9/23/1963. I

can't pin down the date/year when he moved

from Houston to Dallas.



The 1957 final Conference report noted that:

"Delegates from Oregon, Northern Minnesota,

Quebec (Canada), Northeast Texas and South

Florida participated in a provocative panel

session on Clubhouses under the chairmanship

of Icky S, a member of the Board of Trustees.

Emphasizing the importance of separating the

functions of clubs and groups, Icky summed up

the general feeling of the participants by

declaring that, in AA, when you put your heart

rather than your brains into a project, "You

can go a long, long, way."



In 1958 Icky was elected as Vice Chairman of

the General Service Board. The 1958 final

Conference report contained a "GSO Policy

Committee" report written by Icky who also

served then as chairman of the committee.



Icky is discussed by Bill W on page 80 in

AA Comes of Age:



"When I think of explosions I always think of

my friend Icky. Down in Houston, Texas, they

call him the "Dynamite Man." Icky is an expert

on explosives, on demolition. He was in the

rear of the Russian retreat blowing up bridges

during the war. After the war he started to ply

his trade again, and I guess he fell into the

same error that a poor fellow in London did the

other day. This alcoholic Londoner turned up

before a magistrate. He had been picked up

stiff drunk. His bottle was empty. The

magistrate said, "Did you drink it all,"

"Oh, yes." "Why did you drink it all," "Because

I lost the cork." Down there in Houston, it

must have been one of those days when our friend

Icky lost his cork. Icky was commissioned to

blow up a certain pier in Houston Harbor, and

he blew up the wrong one!



There is a passing reference to Icky S in

Bob P's "unofficial AA history" where he writes:



"Esther E. took over as leader of the Houston

group in 1942, and Hortense L. succeeded her

when she moved to Dallas. The group met in the

basement of the Ambassador Hotel in 1941.

During the war years it met in other places:

the M.& M. Building, Franklin St., Milam St.,

Dooley St., and finally beginning in 1946 at

3511 Travis St. where it remained. In early

1949, the majority of the Travis St. group

broke away to form the Montrose Group. Among

those that remained were Ed H., Angus McL.,

Claire W., Anna D., Mildred C., and Icky S."



On July 1, 1960 Icky Chaired a session at the

25th Anniversary Convention at Long Beach,

California that was titled "12 Speakers on

the 12 Steps."



Cheers

Arthur



PS - I have a 1954 photo of Icky which I'll

send you by separate email.



-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shakey1aa@aol.com

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:34 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Cc: Shakey1aa@aol.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Icky the Dynamite man



I'm trying to get more info on Icky From

Houston: Page 80 AACOA (the dynamite man).



What's his date of sobriety, home group,

etc., does anyone know?



I have a 1st. edit. Stools & Bottles signed

by Ed Webster and inscribed to Icky, dated

1961. The gentleman I purchased it from told

me he got it in Houston.



I'd like to know more about Icky so that I

can pretend to be knowledgeable when the book

is displayed.



Thank You,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz


0 -1 0 0
5575 Ernest Kurtz
Re: Dick Perez from the Akron Area Dick Perez from the Akron Area 3/10/2009 10:32:00 AM


Juan,



I did some brief interviews of Dick back in

the mid-1970s. Because of the anonymity

tradition and the fact that my dissertation/book

"Not-God" was a public document, those few

references are cited in the endnotes as

"Dick P." and (usually) the date of our

conversation.



Happy hunting. I will appreciate it if you

will share with me (and the group) the results

of your efforts. In retrospect, I wish I had

said more about Dick's self-consciousness about

being Hispanic and fearing that he would not

be accepted in AA. Dick told me that even

though many used slang, un-p.c. nicknames

(e.g. "Spic") in referring to him, everyone

in AA was always helpful with rides to and

from meetings, etc.



I hope you can learn more and tell Dick P.'s

story: I remember it as vivid testimony not

so much to the "tolerance" of early AA, but

as deep evidence of the genuine spirituality

of many/most of the early members in the

Akron/Cleveland area. And, of course, of

Dick's own courage and craving for sobriety.



ernie kurtz



- - - -



On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:47 AM, juan.aa98 wrote:



> Where can I find the full story on Dick Perez

> from the Akron Area?

>

> What books or documents are there which would

> mention Dick Perez or talk about his life in AA?

>

>


0 -1 0 0
5576 Mitchell K.
Re: Dick Perez from the Akron Area Dick Perez from the Akron Area 3/10/2009 7:12:00 AM


Dick Perez was from Cleveland and as far as

I know was the first person to translate the

Big Book into Spanish. Dick was Mexican and

according to Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers

was in this country illegally and helped carry

the message back to Mexico. I met Dick once

back in 1982 when he attended Lois W.'s

long-termer's party.





--- On Mon, 3/9/09, juan.aa98 <juan.aa98@yahoo.com> wrote:



From: juan.aa98 <juan.aa98@yahoo.com>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Dick Perez from the Akron Area

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 12:47 AM



Where can I find the full story on Dick Perez

from the Akron Area?



What books or documents are there which would

mention Dick Perez or talk about his life in AA?


0 -1 0 0
5577 Tom Hickcox
Re: Mottos on old anniversary chips Mottos on old anniversary chips 2/28/2009 4:52:00 PM


Chips/medallions/coins/doubloons/tokens have

not been produced by A.A., so whatever is put

on them is a manufacturers' decision. There

are no official A.A. chips, so any changes

were effected by people outside of the

Fellowship, and, hence, have very little to

do with it. "To thine own self be true is

from Shakespeare," for that matter.



Tommy H in Baton Rouge



- - - -



From: "Ben Humphreys" <blhump272@sctv.coop>

(blhump272 at sctv.coop)



I go back to 1975 and my first on says

recovery, service and unity. It may be

where the group bought the chips. All my

early ones came from Bright Star.



- - - -



From: James Flynn <jdf10487@yahoo.com>

(jdf10487 at yahoo.com)



Many of mine say "To Thine Own Self Be True"

and "Unity, Service, Recovery"



- - - -



Original message #5552 from

<il22993us@yahoo.com> (il22993us at yahoo.com)



My father received his first chip sometime in

the late 1960's or 70's.



The chip says: "recover, serve, unite" rather

than "recovery, service, unity" (like the

chips we give out today).



His 2nd year chip has what we have now.



Does anyone know what year the words changed?

Was there a pattern here? Thanks!



Carole,

DOS: 07-03-2006


0 -1 0 0
5578 stockholmfellowship
Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature Royalties for Grapevine related literature 3/10/2009 4:54:00 AM


The AA Grapevine is discussed in the latest

issue of Box 459, including that the Grapevine

is self-supporting:



"In contrast to G.S.O., which receives group

contributions to support group services, the

Grapevine does not accept contributions from

individuals or groups, and accepts donations

only for a fund set up to provide subscrip-

tions for inmates or other A.A.s who cannot

afford the cost. Its financial support comes

entirely from sales of the magazine and

related materials, such as The Language of

the Heart—the collected Grapevine writings

of Bill W."



Though, the question remains, does Bill W's

estate receives royalties from "The Language

of the Heart" or other writings of the

Grapevine? Or, rather, does anyone receive

any royalties from the Grapevine?



To read the lastest Box 459,

you can download it at



http://ddslinks.aaws.org/default.aspx?p=BOX459&e=FebMar09&l=en



- - - -



From: "bty934414" <normansobriety@btinternet.com>

(normansobriety at btinternet.com)



Who would pay to have the grapevine printed

online ?



from Norrie F. in Scotland



- - - -



From: John Barton <jax760@yahoo.com>

(jax760 at yahoo.com)



A Historical Fact:



Profits from the sale of literature have been

used since day one to support the work which

includes operations and carrying the message.

This goes back to the very first profits on

the big book that supported the foundation

office and the creation of phamplets (even

before the shareholders in the book got their

money back).



John B



P.S. The removal of the staples is so the

magazine can be brought into the prisons

(where it is needed).


0 -1 0 0
5579 Phil McG
Re: Anyone know anything about the first prison group? Anyone know anything about the first prison group? 3/10/2009 1:30:00 PM


AA meetings in prisons were first started in

1941 by CT Duffy, the Warden at San Quentin.



Check out his book: SAN QUENTIN, The Story

of a Prison by C T Duffy (1951). You can

purchase it on-line and really good libraries

still carry it.



Here are a couple of web sites that briefly

discuss the history:



http://www.handinorcal.org/AboutPage/About.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Quentin_State_Prison



Phil



- - - -



From: "Lee Carroll, CPA" <FriendLeeCPA@msn.com>

(FriendLeeCPA at msn.com)



Warden Clinton Duffy spoke at the First

International AA Conference in Cleveland,

July 29, 1950. In it he shares that:



- he had been watching AA on the street



- San Quentin was in the process of

inititating a new type of rehabilitation



-he realized punishment was not enough.



- First meeting at SQ was in 1942



- Twenty inmates and several outside guests,

many of whom had never been behind such walls

before and were awed by the surroundings.



- Most inmates hadn't seen a woman or civilian

clothes for a long time.



- Duffy says the tension was broken when an

outside guest, whose name he couldn't remember

("...and wouldn't mention if I could,") went

up to the podium 'with a smile on his face

that radiated an air of friendliness - I'll

never forget his opening words:



"Fellows," he said, looking out over the stiff

audience, "before we start talking about AA

I have a confession to make, I want to tell

you that, but for the grace of a power greater

than myself I would be sitting out there with

you today listening to someone else make this

speech."



- Duffy quotes more that I wont write out, but

he says the tension was eased and it became

a podium participation mtng.



- Skeptics had told Duffy that AA was a

"useless fad," and that "SQ would go off

louder than nitroglycerin if he allowed

women AA's to mix with the inmates."



- Not so said Duffy. There was never an "off

color remark."



- At the end of the first meeting, says Duffy

one of the former skeptics chose the

opportunity to assure him that AA at SQ

would be a success.



- SQ did make mistakes; a) issued diplomas

for completing 12-step study course b)

withheld AA from men who did not "appear"

to be alcoholic c) exerted pressure on men

"diagnosed" as alcoholic.



Lee (805) 938-1981



- - - -



From: "J. Lobdell" <jlobdell54@hotmail.com>

(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)



On p. 59 of AA Today: a special publication

by the AA Grapevine commemorating the 25th

Anniversary of Alcoholics Anonymous (copyright

1960, 1988), Warden Clinton Duffy says (or

writes), "When, in 1941, San Quentin pioneered

the first Alcoholics Anonymous group behind

any prison walls, I said, 'If the program will

help one man, I want to start it.' In these

eighteen years, hundreds have been helped."

So, for a date, 1941 (probably later in the

year as it isn't yet nineteen years when he's

speaking), and for a founder, Warden Duffy.

And as to the why, "If the program will help

one man, I want to start it."



- - - -



From: kentedavis@aol.com

(kentedavis at aol.com)



There is a good report from the Northern

California Council of Alcoholics Anonymous.

It was this group that was instrumental in

forming the group so this is about the best

account of its beginnings.



Kent D 8.8.88



- - - -



From: Ernest Kurtz <kurtzern@umich.edu>

(kurtzern at umich.edu)



Priscilla,



I suggest you pass this question on to the AA

archivist at the GSO in New York: there is a

wealth of material there.



ernie



************************************



Original message #5572 from

<priscilla_semmens@yahoo.com>

(priscilla_semmens at yahoo.com)



The first prison AA Group, we are told, was

formed at San Quentin.



Who formed it? When was it formed? Why was

it formed? etc.


0 -1 0 0
5580 Shakey1aa@aol.com
Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin the first prison group? NOT San Quentin 3/9/2009 7:37:00 PM


The first prison group was definitely not

San Quentin! The Philadelphia Mother group

was taking meetings into Philadelphia prisons

two years before S. Q. and have continuously

carried on that tradition.



GSO in NY has told us that, even when substant-

iated, they will not change this part of AA

history in their publications. A member of

the Archives committee of the local Intergroup

asked them several years back.



I also heard about another prison group about

the same time (1940) in NY or NJ. Perhaps

someone from those areas can provide more

accurate information.



Yours in Service,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz


0 -1 0 0
5581 Mike Breedlove
Archival Repositories and Hints for AA Archivists Archival Repositories and Hints for AA Archivists 3/10/2009 6:31:00 PM


Greetings everyone, and especially kauaihulahips



Thank you for those wonderful questions. I am

certainly no authority on all (or even many)

of the questions asked in kauaihulahips'

email, but do have some information the Area

One (Alabama-Northwest Florida) archives

committee collected in a survey in 2006. The

information is in tables format and is

detailed below. Other area archives were

contacted and graciously supplied the

information detailed below. No personal

information is shared. Any area archives

committee that wishes to share more informa-

tion, or to update the present information,

(hint, hint) would you please forward that

information to me at the email address of



mikeb415@knology.net

(mikeb415 at knology.net)



If you wish to contact a specific archives or

archives committee, you might wish to contact

the AA Archives, located at the General

Services Office. They may have the information

you need. As a general policy, the AA Archives

tends not to participate directly in forums

such as this but the staff are more than

willing to help any one who asks for help. Of

course I am willing to share any information

or knowledge that others have so freely shared

with me. Just contact me at



mikeb415@knology.net

(mikeb415 at knology.net)



The one overall comment to be hazarded is that

any one looking to establish an archival

repository of any kind needs to closely review

the following. At the AA website, if you click

on Resources for Local A.A. Archivists you can

see links to the following really useful pieces

of literature, all of which have very recently

been updated:



Archives Guidelines - MG-17 .pdf The direct link is

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/mg-17_archives.pdf

(4 pages)



The A.A. Archives - F-47 .pdf The direct link is

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/f-47_theaaarchives.pdf

(2 pages)



Oral Histories Kit .pdf - The direct links is

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/en_oralhistorieskit.pdf

(18 pages)



Many areas choose to conduct recorded oral

history interviews with longtimers, to record

their strength, hope, and experience for

future generations. This kit contains tips,

instructions, suggested questions, forms and

templates, as well as a list of additional

resources.



Yours in service,

Mike B.

Area One Archivist



(Like others in AA, I have some experience and

formal training as a professional archivist)



***************************************



Area #

Archives facility and details

Financial Support

Archives Cmte?

Archivist?

Volume of Records

Volunteers & Work



***************************************



01, Alabama- NW Florida

10 x 10 ft. somewhat climate controlled store room

$2,100/year for rent for storage ($1,500) and supplies ($600).



No foundation.

Yes

Yes

200 cubic ft., of which 30 cubic ft. are actual archives and 150 cubic ft.

are special collections

Just getting started, but we do work one afternoon every area assembly with

one or two volunteers



- - - -



06, Coastal North California

Yes, at an AA Meeting facility, 8 x 20 room, with tape library

$10,000/year, with $7200 for rent, 2100 for travel and conferences, 700 for

supplies. No foundation

Yes, also a tape librarian

Yes

120-200 cf, including shelves lateral files, file cabinets shelves,

reel-to-reel tapes, cassettes, etc.

Volunteers work one/month

Former delegate participates



- - - -



10, Colorado

Basement of a church in Denver, ca. 15 x 20

$600/year for rent and $600/year for operating expenses and the traveling

displays are funded by Area. AA members contribute financially



No foundation.

Yes

Yes

70 cf, including file cabinets and more

Office open once a month for 2 hours, mainly the archives chair



Lots of interviews with long timers



- - - -



15, South Florida

3x4 cubical - a rental, climate controlled facility -- records are stored

in banker boxes

$580 annual for storage and copies, postage of our Committee minutes. Area

15 furnishes 1 night lodging each, at Area Quarterly for the Area Archives

Chair and the Alternate. No foundation

Yes

No

10 cf, the minutes and business records of the Area Business meetings, and

Ad-hoc committees.

No



- - - -



16, Georgia

Yes, 20 x 30 area adjacent to area office

Budget from Area of $2,932. Rent and utilities included in general area

office expense



No foundation

Yes and Steering Cmte, & delegate helping

Yes

Not stated, Do have display cases

Mainly the archivist



- - - -



18, Idaho

Yes, 2 rooms for storage, 20 x 20 and 20 x 25, and 1 for ref, exhibit, 25 x

15

All funding from Area, $1,200, and from donations. Travel is reimbursed at

0.30/mile



No foundation

Yes & delegate helping

Yes

Not stated. Do have 4 file cabinets.

Yes, 6-7, and they do reference work



- - - -



19, Northern Illinois

Yes, 15 x 15

$500 - $800/yr



No foundation

Yes

Yes

40-50 cf, many tapes & CDs

Yes, but no details



Yes

yes

10 cf

Interview of long timers



- - - -



22, Northern Indiana

No

$100/yr. No foundation.



- - - -



27, Louisiana

Yes, 12 x 24 room

$1,500/year from Area and selling of items No foundation

Yes

Yes

288 cubic ft., with archival supplies, shelving, etc.

Do reference work, exhibits, and more



- - - -



32, Michigan

No

None from Area, some from groups and individuals



No foundation.

No

Yes

150 cf

Mainly the archivist



- - - -



38, Eastern Maryland

Area rents 2 rooms, 200 sq ft each, for archives, in central service bldg

Area pays for rent and other expenses. Budget of $1,200/yr. No foundation.

Yes

Yes

6 filing cabinets and a bit more [ca. 50 cf] 2nd room is used for

processing, etc.

Mainly the archivist



- - - -



50, Western New York

Yes, rent 12 x 20 room from Central Office

$500 - $1.000, contributions from groups and individuals, Presently

creating a budget. No Area support. No foundation

Yes and a treasurer, & very active past delegates

Yes

Not stated

Mainly the archivist



- - - -



64, Central Tennessee (Murfreesboro)



Yes, Yes, we have a free-standing building.

It is 25 x 45, or 1,125 square feet, concrete

block and brick, two rooms. Anonymity protected.



[Also gave more info on district archives

in Area 64]

Total budget is about $70 per month for

chair person's travel expenses and $500 per

year for building, & appointed an archivist &

historian . Going to give him $33 per month

for traveling expenses.



A contractor built it on his lot and is

only charging the cost of construction.

Purchasing the building one year at a time

by Area 64. Pay it like rent, but will be

paid for in 10 years. After paid off, probably

will create a foundation at that time.



Yes

Yes

Have eight four drawer filing cabinet,

plus exhibit cases, and going to get acid-free

boxes, etc.



Groups, districts and events pay for

traveling archives

Front room with display cases and log in

room; back room has desks, with strictly

volunteer work force, webmaster does a lot

of work (2 or 3 days a week from 10 until 3)

and recruits well.



- - - -



65, North Texas



No

$600/year for travel, etc., and groups and events often at least partially

reimburse travel and display costs. No foundation.

Yes

No

20 cf

Mainly the archivist



- - - -



71, Virginia

Office space of one room is rented (size not mentioned)

Area pays for office expenses, archivist's travel and incidentals, and

archives cmte travel and yearly archives open house (amount not mentioned). No

foundation

Yes

Yes

Not stated

Yes, but no details



- - - -



72, Western Washington

Yes, 750 sq ft, shelving and containers used

$700.00/qtr, $300.00/upkeep, and area pays travel No foundation

Yes, cmte chair and Steering Cmte

Yes

Not stated

Yes, but no details



- - - -



93, Central California

Yes, 800 sq ft, 2 room facility

$400.00/month budget from Area, with extra money for travel. Have a storage

room and exhibit room.



No foundation

Yes

Yes

50 cubic ft.

Yes, but no details



- - - -



Akron AA Archives

Archives is in Intergroup offices an do have a collection policy

Self supporting, but does not say how. No foundation (as a part of

Intergroup and not separately incorporated, a foundation would violate the

traditions)

Yes under Intergroup

Yes

Not stated

Yes


0 -1 0 0
5582 rick tompkins
RE: Archival repositories Archival repositories 3/9/2009 11:06:00 PM


Just a caveat to let you know that AAs are

easy to please (especially archivists) but

those in service and the vocal residents of

the peanut galleries are reluctant to commit

to spending large sums of a Delegate Area's

cash. You'll have to propose the site with

plenty of details.



Perhaps the AA Archives at GSO can provide

you more information on any of our other 91

Delegate Areas, but the costs are always

relative to what the Fellowship wants to do

with Archives items.



My Area 20 Northern Illinois rents a 10x10x10

storage unit in a converted office building,

currently a "Public Storage" space on the

building's second floor. Heated, insured,

dust-free, and a gated site.



Unlock and open the rollup door and there's

added aisle working space of six more feet to

work in. It has a 10x10 window with a tarp to

shield the sun and when it's pulled back

there's lots of daylight.



Since 1998 the Area 20 Archives have been

placed there, we installed shelves, and made

the space a work-friendly environment.



We started the Repository at $94 per month

and the current rent is $118 per month.



Not too bad for a facility that's changed

hands three times over the ten years it's

been located there.no losses, floods, fires,

or insects!



2008 = $1400 per year, paid in advance by

Area funds.



And its effective cost vs. value? Priceless.



rick, Illinois



- - - -



From: "Keith" <kroloson@mindspring.com>

(kroloson at mindspring.com)



Hello,



for the State of Georgia AA, Area 16, we have

a location that has 1) state office 2) book

distribution center to groups and interoffices

3) refrigerated archive room, all in one

location, and across from it is the hotel

where the State Assemblies occur. I don't

know if they can tell you the startup costs

or ongoing yearly costs for archive facility,

but go here to ask



http://www.aageorgia.org/archives.htm



and contact Archives@aageorgia.org



There is quite a lot in the refrigerated room.

I'm sure it has moisture-controls too.



In His Service,



Keith R, former District 16E PI



- - - -



From: Greg Hughes <glhughes227@yahoo.com>

(glhughes227 at yahoo.com)



Area 27 (State of Louisiana) has an archival

repository. It is currently housed in a room

at the home of a member and former delegate

who now serves as the area archivist. The

Archives Committee is currently looking for

a permanent location.



- - - -



From: alan dobson <dobbo101@yahoo.com kauaihulahips@yahoo.com >

(kauaihulahips at yahoo.com)



What A.A. Areas at present have free-standing

repositories for their archives?



Could people from some of these already existing

archival repositories send me information about

what they have for their Area?



For example, what is the square footage?

how much is the rent? utilities? area annual

budget/beakdown?



What does the facility look like?



Any tips for our new area standing chair

and our new archivist?



<kauaihulahips@yahoo.com>

(kauaihulahips at yahoo.com)


0 -1 0 0
5583 stockholmfellowship
Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature Royalties for Grapevine related literature 3/12/2009 12:29:00 PM


I wrote to the Managing Editor of the AA

Grapevine to find out about royalties and if

the magazines are self-seupporting.



According to the Managing Editor, the AA

Grapevine and La Vina are self-supporting

through magazine and other product sales.

If they are in the red, however, AAWS will

cover the deficit; as has happened in some

fiscal years. However, the business model

was established with the goal of breaking

even.



As far as she knows, in regard to potential

royalties to Bill W.'s estate,



"The Language of the Heart" sales are all

credited to the Grapevine's account.


0 -1 0 0
5584 juan.aa98
Ralph Pfau instead of Big Book in early Spanish language AA Ralph Pfau instead of Big Book in early Spanish language AA 2/23/2009 12:19:00 PM


Ralph Pfau (Father John Doe) more widely read

than Big Book in early Spanish-speaking A.A.



- - - -



Juan Rodriguez in California, in his researches

in this area, has found that Spanish transla-

tions of Fr. Ralph’s writings were used as the

basis of Spanish-language A.A. in both North

and South America during the years before there

was a widely available Spanish translation of

the Big Book. The earliest actual text which

Rodriguez has found of a Spanish translation

of the Big Book is from Puerto Rico and dates

to 1959. As we know, the serious legal disputes

which arose later on over rival translations of

the Big Book in Mexico formed one of the most

unseemly scandals of A.A. history. So for

many years, in much of Latin America, Spanish

translations of Fr. Pfau's writings were safer

and more easily available.



Also, Fr. Pfau's prose style was much easier

to translate into Spanish than that of the

Big Book, and seemed to naturally convert

itself into smooth, flowing Spanish.



These translations are in the form of booklets,

usually about one-third to half the length of

the Golden Books, giving individual sections

from Fr. Pfau’s writings. So the twenty page

booklet entitled "La Vida Emocional y el Mito

de la Perfeccion" (“The Emotional Life and the

Myth of Perfection”) was taken from "Sobriety

Without End" (1957) and the twenty-four page

booklet on "Resentimientos" (“Resentments”)

was taken from "Sobriety and Beyond" (1955).

The thirty-six page booklet entitled "Sano

Juicio" (literally “Sane Judgment”) was a

translation of "The Golden Book of Sanity"

(1963).



Fr. Ralph has continued to be a great hero

among Spanish-speakers in the United States

as well. The thirty-two page booklet "Liberado

de las Tinieblas" (“Freed from Darkness”), a

translation of Ralph’s 1958 autobiography

(“Out of the Shadows”) in Look magazine, was

published with a red and yellow cover much

like the old circus cover of the original

Big Books, in 2008 in Hollister, California,

by the A.A. group La Gran Familia, to honor his

memory, and there is a beautiful memorial to

him on a hill top called Serenity Point at

the St. Francis Retreat Center just outside

of San Juan Bautista, California.



Posted by Glenn C., with

information supplied by Juan R.


0 -1 0 0
5585 Bob McK.
RE: Dick Perez from the Akron Area Dick Perez from the Akron Area 3/10/2009 8:05:00 PM


Ricardo ("Dick") P. is first mentioned as on

the Central Committee in Cleveland in 1945.

The documentary of Central Bulletins on

Compact Disk ("CB on CD") is available at

nominal price thru the Cleveland District

Office.



Elvira at that office (216-241-7387) knew him.



I have one talk by him produced by Encore



http://www.12steptapes.com/



Dick was mentioned as working for the Mexican

Consulate. The March '46 issue mentions him

as translating the Big Book into Spanish --

although local rumor (as well as Dr. Bob and

the Good Oldtimers) suggest his wife did most

of the work.



Please share your results on this search with

me. It will get to our area and Cleveland

Central Office Archives.


0 -1 0 0
5586 juan.aa98
Dick Perez Dick Perez 3/13/2009 3:54:00 PM


What is Dick Perez's sobriety date I am curious

to know?


0 -1 0 0
5587 Juan Rodriguez
Plenitud magazine for AA''s in Mexico Plenitud magazine for AA''s in Mexico 3/11/2009 9:11:00 PM


There is a recovery magazine in Mexico called

Plenitud (translates to Fullness). It has

more circulation and importance in AA Mexico

than the Grapevine.  They have done several

articles on him, from interviews in Spanish

that he gave.

 

I contacted the magazine and they are about to

send me all the info on him that they have

from over 50 years of publication.  I will

post my findings.

 

Juan R.

 


0 -1 0 0
5588 diazeztone
Father Martin Chalk Talk Passing Father Martin Chalk Talk Passing 3/10/2009 8:34:00 PM


baltimoresun.com



The Rev. Joseph C. Martin dies at 84

Leader in fight against alcoholism founded

Father Martin's Ashley in Harford County

By Frederick N. Rasmussen

March 10, 2009



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



The Rev. Joseph C. Martin, a recovering alcoholic and an international leader in

the fight against alcoholism and substance abuse who was a co-founder of Father

Martin's Ashley, a Harford County treatment center, died early yesterday of

heart disease at his Havre de Grace home. He was 84.



Father Martin's "Chalk Talk on Alcohol" and "No Laughing Matter" have become

standard tools used by recovery centers, schools and employee assistance

programs the world over.



"Father Martin is an icon in the treatment industry and was one of the first to

describe alcoholism in layman's terms as a disease," said Mark Hushen, president

and chief executive of Father Martin's Ashley, located near Havre de Grace.



"He helped thousands and thousands directly and indirectly with his message all

across the world," he said. Mike Gimbel, a substance-abuse expert who was

Baltimore County drug czar for 23 years and now directs an anti-steroid program

at St. Joseph Medical Center, is an old friend.



"Father Martin has done more to educate and treat those suffering from addiction

than anyone in the past 50 years," Mr. Gimbel said yesterday. Born in Baltimore,

the son of a machinist who was a heavy drinker, Father Martin was raised in

Hampden. He was a 1942 graduate of Loyola High School and attended Loyola

College from 1942 until 1944.



He studied for the priesthood at St. Mary's Seminary & University in Roland Park

from 1944 to 1948, when he was ordained a priest of the Society of St. Sulpice.



Father Martin began drinking while he held teaching positions at St. Joseph's

College in Mountain View, Calif., from 1948 to 1956, and later at St. Charles

Seminary in Catonsville from 1956 to 1959.



"I drank from the age of 24 to 34," he told The Sun in a 1992 profile. "I was

afraid to go near the altar to say Mass six days a week. I did go on Sunday, but

shaking all the while."



After his troublesome behavior came to the attention of superiors, Father Martin

was confined to a psychiatric ward in California in 1956, and after his release,

returned to drinking double martinis and shots of vodka from hidden bottles in

his bathroom.



"It never occurred to me that perhaps there was something odd about a priest

walking toward a garbage dump in the middle of the afternoon carrying two

suitcases of clanking bottles," he told The Sun in an interview last year.



Finally, the Archdiocese of Baltimore sent Father Martin to Guest House, a

Michigan treatment center for the clergy, to get sober.



By the time he left Guest House, he had regained his sobriety and found what

would become his life's work.



He converted his notes based on Bill Wilson's Alcoholics Anonymous famous

12-step program into a blackboard talk, which was done on an actual blackboard

with chalk. During the 1960s, he began presenting it at AA meetings, rehab

centers and private businesses.



In 1972, his "Chalk Talk" lecture was filmed by the Navy and later was picked up

by the other armed forces where it was used as mandatory addiction training for

service personnel.



Father Martin and his blackboard lecture were in demand all over the world,

which gave rise to his crack: "Have chalk. Will travel."



In 1964, he became acquainted with Lora Mae Abraham, a mother and a housewife,

who was the daughter of a Baptist minister.



"I've been sober 45 years. Those years when I was suffering from alcoholism were

years of disgrace and shame, and especially so because I was a woman," said Mrs.

Abraham.



One night in 1964, Mrs. Abraham joined other members from her AA meeting at the

Johns Hopkins University to hear a lecture featuring Father Martin.



"When he walked out on stage and said, 'Hello, I'm Joe Martin, and I'm an

alcoholic,' and that alcoholics are not bad people, they have an illness, I

surrendered right there that night," she said. The two became close friends, and

it was Mrs. Abraham who suggested in 1978 that Father Martin establish a center

where alcoholics could come for treatment.



It took seven years of fundraising before they were able to acquire Oakington,

the former estate of Maryland Sen. Millard Tydings overlooking the Chesapeake

Bay.



The 22-bed facility opened in 1983 and was named Ashley for Mrs. Abraham's

father, the Rev. Arthur Ashley.



The Rev. Leonard A. Dahl, a Presbyterian clergyman, stepped down two years ago

as president and CEO at Ashley.



"He also took me to my first AA meeting, and I recently celebrated 36 years of

sobriety," Mr. Dahl said of Father Martin. "He believed that alcoholism was his

cross and hymn to carry, and he was never bitter about the disease."



Father Martin, who liked to say, "Give me a blackboard, a piece of chalk and a

bunch of drunks and I'm at home," always greeted new arrivals with a hopeful

welcome: "The nightmare is over."



Father Martin also made sure that no one was turned away because of their

inability to pay for treatment that can cost $20,800 for the 28-day program.



In the more than 30 years since it accepted its first patient, more than 30,000

people have been treated, including celebrities from the world of Hollywood,

sports and politics.



While retiring from active management in 2003, Father Martin, who had celebrated

50 years of sobriety, continued lecturing patients until late last year.



Michael K. Deaver, former White House chief of staff during the Reagan

administration, had been a patient and later served on Ashley's board for a

decade.



"When I came to Ashley, I had been with presidents, kings, popes and prime

ministers, but Father Martin was the most powerful person I had ever met," Mr.

Deaver said. "You see, Father has the power to change people, to make them

better, to make them whole again."



A Mass of Christian burial will be offered at 10 a.m. Friday at the Basilica of

the National Shrine of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Cathedral and

Mulberry streets.



Father Martin is survived by a brother, Edward Martin of Lilburn, Ga.; two

sisters, Frances Osborne and Dorothy Christopher, both of Baltimore; Mrs.

Abraham and her husband, Tommy Abraham, with whom he lived for 30 years; and

many nieces and nephews.



ldpierce

aabibliography.com



- - - -



From: "Mike Custer" <generalc@woh.rr.com>

(generalc at woh.rr.com)



Father Martin will be missed by many. I had

the pleasure of meeting him a few times at

different talks and events. Thank you for

your service to so many.



May God bless you and yours,

love to all, Mike ...


0 -1 0 0
5589 J. Lobdell
Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin the first prison group? NOT San Quentin 3/11/2009 8:39:00 PM


But isn't there a difference between a Prison

Group and taking a meeting into a Prison?



Moreover, since the San Quentin group was

formed in 1941 and the first Philadelphia Group

did not exist before 1940, it's hard to see

how it could even have been taking meetings

into Philadelphia prisons two years before

1941.



The first institutional meetings were held

at Rockland Hospital in 1939, which is

New York State tho' the participants were

partly from New Jersey. I think by the way

that this institutional meeting may be the

oldest AA meeting in the same location it was

first held.



- - - -



From: John Pine <johncpine@gmail.com>

(johncpine at gmail.com)



Isn't there a difference between a self-

directed, autonomous group within a prison

and meetings that are brought in by outside

groups or individuals?



Could that be the distinction here?



John Pine

Richmond, Virginia



- - - -



> From: Shakey1aa@aol.com

> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009

> Subject: Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin

>

> The first prison group was definitely not

> San Quentin! The Philadelphia Mother group

> was taking meetings into Philadelphia prisons

> two years before S. Q. and have continuously

> carried on that tradition.

>

> Yours in Service,

> Shakey Mike Gwirtz


0 -1 0 0
5590 diazeztone
Re: Archival repositories Archival repositories 3/12/2009 6:07:00 PM


I have often wondered why regional and state

AA Archives are not placed physically into

the library of a large institution. (Or smaller

local institution.)



I.e. the Texas archives being placed at the

U Texas Library in Austin. Or at SMU in Dallas.

Even a large city library would be a good

choice. (Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin,

have very large pubic libraries.)



The archives could be donated but maintained

by the group donating. Or they could be loaned

(for fixed time 2 year, 5 year, 10 year) this

would allow traveling archives to remove

materials for conventions etc.



I think this would make the materials avail-

able to many more people. For example ,I have

been to Oklahoma City 50 times recently and

almost every time I go to the archives they

are closed.



LD Pierce

editor

www.aabibliography.com

"an internet aa archive!!"


0 -1 0 0
5591 marionoredstone
Re: Anyone know anything about the first prison group? Anyone know anything about the first prison group? 3/12/2009 1:09:00 AM


And of course the rest of the story is that

the 25 millionth copy of the Big Book was

presented to the then current warden of San

Quentin in recognition of its being the

beginning of the prison meetings.



I have presented at one here in central

Indiana and agree with those who say it is

worthwhile.



While talking before the meeting with an

inmate, and hearing his tale, I could

truthfully say the very same thing that

Warden Duffy describes the first AA speaker

to have said to inmates.



God is near



Marion


0 -1 0 0
5592 Arthur S
Re: Anyone know anything about the first prison group? Anyone know anything about the first prison group? 3/14/2009 5:56:00 PM


Do you also recall that after receiving the

25 millionth Big Book and returning home she

was out of a job?



A rather ignoble homecoming.



Cheers

Arthur



-----Original Message-----

On Behalf Of marionoredstone

Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about

the first prison group?



And of course the rest of the story is that

the 25 millionth copy of the Big Book was

presented to the then current warden of San

Quentin in recognition of its being the

beginning of the prison meetings.



I have presented at one here in central

Indiana and agree with those who say it is

worthwhile.



While talking before the meeting with an

inmate, and hearing his tale, I could

truthfully say the very same thing that

Warden Duffy describes the first AA speaker

to have said to inmates.



God is near



Marion


0 -1 0 0
5593 Kimball ROWE
Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin the first prison group? NOT San Quentin 3/14/2009 5:58:00 PM


It also strikes me that if Owen V. heard the

message of Alcoholics Anonymous in 1941 at a

meeting in the prison in Salem, Oregon at a

meeting started by Doc H., then it makes sense

that Doc H had started the meeting before that,

since Owen V. was not a founder of that meeting.



(Owen V later went on to start the first AA

group in Utah in 1942 (=after release from

prison.)


0 -1 0 0
5594 Shakey1aa@aol.com
Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin the first prison group? NOT San Quentin 3/14/2009 8:18:00 PM


AA Archives should be based on fact. Here

are a few. The San Quentin Warden that was

presented the 25 millionth copy of the Big

Book at the International Convention in Canada

in 2005 was Jill Brown. She was fired a week

or so after receiving the award. FACT



AA literature says San Quentin was started in

1942, AACA PG 89. FACT



The Feb 1952 Grapevine says AA at San Quentin

is a little more than 9 years old. That means

it began in 1943 or late 1942. Other sourses

say 1941 or 1943. I'll go with AACA, our not

so perfect history. FACT



Philadelphia prisons have had continuous

meetings since September 1940. FACT



Philadelphia AA started on the last day of

Feb 1940. FACT (a leap year day)



Sobriety thru the Oxford Group was present in

Philadelphia in 1938 and future members of the

Philadelphia Mother group had 2 years of

sobriety before Jimmy B got here. Jimmy was

given their names to look them up when he got

here. FACT (John P L, for one)



Whether it was 24 months or 20 months, the

message of AA has been continuously carried

in to the prisons of Philadelphia. My point

in the original message is that our history

is misrepresented in our literature. This is

not the only example. If our history is found

to be wrong then it must be corrected. MY

OPINION (by the way I'm not yelling).



Duffy had the 1st registered in New York

prison meeting. There was no Intergroup in

Philadelphia in 1940. The Intergroup started

in 1948 and GSO wasn't in existence till 1951.

Without group registration numbers, groups

were registered by writing to the Alcoholic

Foundation in New York and letting a secretary

know about it. When I next go to GSO Archives

I will request authorization to see Clinton

Duffy's letter and then nail down the date

the San Quentin AA prison Group began. Of

course it will depend upon the approval of the

Trustee's in charge of Archives to approve me.

If Jared would like to go, just let me know.

Then we can get the exact month and year and

verify if it's 1941, 1942 or 1943.



Yours in Service,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz

See you in Woodland Hills,Ca.Sept 24-27,2009

13th National Archives Conv.





> From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (mailto:Shakey1aa@aol.com)

> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009

> Subject: Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin

>

> The first prison group was definitely not

> San Quentin! The Philadelphia Mother group

> was taking meetings into Philadelphia prisons

> two years before S. Q. and have continuously

> carried on that tradition.

>

> Yours in Service,

> Shakey Mike Gwirtz


0 -1 0 0
5595 James Blair
Thanks from Jim Blair Thanks from Jim Blair 3/17/2009 2:02:00 PM


I arrived home from the hospital yesterday

after my colon resection and I'd like to

thank everyone for their prayers and support.



I have a recovery period of 6 to 12 weeks and

this will afford me the time to complete some

history projects I had put aside.



Jim Blair


0 -1 0 0
5596 Baileygc23@aol.com
Father Martin: why Ashley in Maryland instead of Carolina? Father Martin: why Ashley in Maryland instead of Carolina? 3/14/2009 2:45:00 PM


Father Martin was planning a place in North

Carolina, and I was surprised when he opened

the place in Maryland. Does anyone know why

he changed to Maryland?



- - - -



From GFC, the moderator. See his biography at:



http://www.fathermartinsashley.com/interior.php?section=AboutAshley&subsection=B\

io




Father Joseph Martin - Biography



Father Joseph C. Martin, S.S. (1924-2009), was co-founder of the addiction

treatment center Father Martin’s Ashley in Havre de Grace, MD, and a noted

authority and lecturer on alcoholism. Best known for his “Chalk Talk on

Alcohol,” delivered to alcoholics and their families with his charismatic style

and sense of humor, Father Martin is credited with saving the lives of thousands

of alcoholics and addicts. His “Chalk Talk” lecture, which began “I’m Joe Martin

and I’m an alcoholic,” and more than 40 films, are legendary.



His films, which have been translated into multiple languages, continue to be

used at treatment centers around the world, in hospitals, substance abuse

programs, industry, and most branches of the U.S. government. He is author of

several publications, including Chalk Talks on Alcohol, published by Harper &

Row in 1982, which is still in print.



The Early Years



Father Martin was born in Baltimore on October 12, 1924, the fourth of seven

children of Marie and James Martin. His leadership ability, communications

skill, and charm became evident early in life. He was valedictorian of Loyola

High School’s class of 1942, and was voted best debater, best actor, and class

member with the best smile. He attended Loyola College from 1942 to 1944.



During his senior year in high school and as he was attending Loyola College, he

had a part-time job with St. Mary’s Seminary, where members of the Society of

St. Sulpice taught seminarians. Increasingly drawn to their mission, he felt the

calling to enter the priesthood, studying at St. Mary’s Seminary on Paca Street

and at St Mary’s in Roland Park in Baltimore. He was ordained a priest for the

Archdiocese of Baltimore in 1948. The following year he entered the Society of

St. Sulpice, a community of priests devoted to the formation and education of

seminarians and priests.



Following ordination, he was sent to teach high school students preparing for

the priesthood at St. Joseph’s College in Mountain View, CA (1948-56), where he

was a successful and popular teacher. In 1956, he was sent to teach at St.

Charles College in Catonsville, MD.



Addiction and Recovery



When it became apparent to colleagues that he had a problem with alcohol, Father

Martin was sent to Guest House in Lake Orion, MI, an alcoholism treatment center

and sanctuary for Catholic priests that advocated the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics

Anonymous (A.A.). He left Guest House in 1959, in recovery and charting a new

course for his life.



He returned to Baltimore and St. Charles College, where he resumed teaching and

supported his recovery by attending A.A. meetings three or four times a week. He

seized every opportunity to speak about alcoholism, captivating audiences with

what became the “Chalk Talk on Alcohol.”



The Transition Years



In 1968, he was assigned to serve as chaplain for the Oblate Sisters of

Providence in Catonsville, and he continued to deliver his “Chalk Talk” to

audiences along the East Coast.



In 1970, Father Martin reached out to Mae Abraham, a woman he met through A.A.,

and with her and her husband’s encouragement, he made the decision to work the

field of recovery. He became a lecturer and educator in the Division of Alcohol

Control for the state of Maryland, conducting seminars for doctors, lawyers,

parole officers, and social workers.



In 1972, the United States Navy filmed “The Blackboard Talk,” which they then

dubbed “The Chalk Talk.” It became known throughout the U.S. military and

established Father Martin as a recognized leader in the addiction treatment

field.



The Ashley Years



In 1977, on a flight returning from an appearance in South Carolina, Mae Abraham

said, “Father, why don’t you open a treatment center where people can get well

with the philosophy you have?”



Mae Abraham and Father Martin began their quest to establish an addiction

treatment center, raising funds over a seven-year period with Father Martin’s

“Chalk Talk” delivered to audiences across the U.S. Thousands of small donations

and several large gifts and matching funds made it possible to buy and renovate

Oakington, the estate owned by the widow of U.S. Senator Millard Tydings on the

Chesapeake Bay near Havre de Grace.



Father Martin’s Ashley opened in 1983. Just two years after opening, Forbes

magazine ranked it as one of the top ten addiction treatment facilities in the

country.



Today, patients come from the East Coast and across the U.S. to the 85-bed

facility, which has a reputation for treating alcohol and drug addiction and

relapse with respect for the dignity of each individual who enters its doors.



To date, Ashley has provided treatment to more than 40,000 people suffering from

the disease of addiction and has provided program services to their families.



Father Martin always had a very special concern for priests in trouble. In this,

he remained faithful to his Sulpician vocation throughout his life.



Honors and Awards



In 1991, Father Martin was invited by Pope John Paul II to participate in the

Vatican’s International Conference on Drugs and Alcohol. He made four trips to

Russia under the auspices of the International Institute on Alcohol Education

and Training, and also traveled to Switzerland and Poland so speak to A.A.

groups and to addiction counselors in training.



Father Martin’s awards include the Andrew White Medal from Loyola College,

Baltimore, for his contributions to the general welfare of the citizenry of

Maryland; Rutgers University’s Summer School of Alcohol Studies’ Distinguished

Service Award (1988); and the Norman Vincent Peale Award (1992).



The Later Years



Although he retired from active management at Father Martin’s Ashley in 2003, he

continued to lecture, addressing patients as recently as last month, ending each

talk, as he always did, “It’s the likes of you that keep the likes of me going.”

He passed away at his home in Havre de Grace on March 9, 2009 at the age of 84.



Father Martin’s Legacy



In the words of the late Mike Deaver, former White House Chief of Staff under

President Ronald Reagan, “Father Martin changed my life and changed me. When I

came to Ashley, I had been with presidents and kings and popes and prime

ministers, but Father was the most powerful person I had ever met, and he still

is today. You see, Father has the power to change people, to make them better,

to make them whole again.” Father Martin’s legacy is Father Martin’s Ashley.


0 -1 0 0
5597 Mike Breedlove
Re: Archival repositories and housing collections Archival repositories and housing collections 3/14/2009 11:05:00 PM


Greetings LD,



You raise an interesting point about the housing of archival materials and

access to them. No doubt others will have valuable experience to share on this

topic, and we eagerly await hearing the experiences of others. Please allow me

to share some of my experience. Most public or private archives and libraries

only accept donated (not loaned) material. Why should an institution have the

responsibility and use its resources for maintaining materials without the

authority to discard what it believes to be non-permanent?



To be specific, AA materials of a local nature are just not that valuable

historically to most libraries or archives so most local repositories just don't

see the need to collect AA materials. In addition, those institutions are

generally not interested in entering into a complicated arrangement regarding

the care and housing of a separate collection of material, particularly one that

is not within their collecting policy. What happens, they might ask, if the

local AA entity no longer is willing to maintain their records? No institution

wants to be placed in the position of throwing historical records on the street.

I can speak from some experience in this area as I have worked in a state

archives for twenty three years as an arrangement and description archivist and

have been involved in state, regional and national archival professional

organizations. I do not know of a single institution in our state that would be

willing to house archival records under a "loan" or even "gift" agreement in

which another entity shares the responsibility for a set of records within that

institution.



Philosophically, as members of Alcoholics Anonymous it seems to me that the

Seventh Tradition means that if we are fully self-supporting through our own

contributions then we support our archives as the historical repository of the

message of Alcoholics Anonymous as it has come to us over the years. In fact,

other traditions are also very important in this regard as the A. A. Guidelines

on Archives emphasize. Please see

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/mg-17_archives.pdf Alcoholics Anonymous at

any and every level should not surrender its archival or historical

responsibility to another entity. After all, we want the archives of Alcoholics

Anonymous to be in the hands of Alcoholics Anonymous, where its life saving

message cannot be distorted or diminished.



In our Area (Alabama-Northwest Florida) we have accomplished a great deal with

our archives, particularly in collecting archival records and special

collections. Nonetheless our archives is not the fully functional repository

that we would like it to be. That means that we have work to do to make our

archives more accessible and fully self-supporting. We are trying to do that

work now. While these efforts are not moving quickly, they are proceeding

steadily.



One other observation - It seems to me that there is a growing sense of shared

responsibility among archivists and historians in AA regarding AA's history, and

a growing cooperation among the different districts, areas and the GSO archives

to collaboratively preserve AA's history. This tendency is all to the good. We

need each other. Once again the principles of commitment, collaboration and

cooperation are paramount. We are still finding our way, but in this effort we

work in unity.



Yours in service, Mike B.

Area One Archivist



- - - -



From: Sober186@aol.com

(Sober186 at aol.com)



Interesting idea. I wonder if we would run into

anonymity problems? We are anonymous only

outside AA rooms, I think. Some of the archives

which would then be open to non AA readers might

contain full names. Would we want to edit out

last names?



Jim in Central Ohio



- - - -



From: Shakey1aa@aol.com

(Shakey1aa at aol.com)



The answer to placing regional or state AA

Archives in a library or large institution

can be found in the AA Preamble. When I go

somewhere to see AA archives I always make an

appointment to do so. Most Archives have rules

about who, where and when they can be seen.

AA members have to be cleared to see the

originals and someone needs to be present from

the committee so that illegal copies or

outright stealing is not occuring. A sober

thief is still a thief.



Yours in Service,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz



- - - -



Original Message From: diazeztone



I have often wondered why regional and state

AA Archives are not placed physically into

the library of a large institution. (Or smaller

local institution.)



I.e. the Texas archives being placed at the

U Texas Library in Austin. Or at SMU in Dallas.

Even a large city library would be a good

choice. (Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin,

have very large pubic libraries.)



The archives could be donated but maintained

by the group donating. Or they could be loaned

(for fixed time 2 year, 5 year, 10 year) this

would allow traveling archives to remove

materials for conventions etc.



I think this would make the materials avail-

able to many more people. For example ,I have

been to Oklahoma City 50 times recently and

almost every time I go to the archives they

are closed.



LD Pierce

editor

www.aabibliography.com

"an internet aa archive!!"


0 -1 0 0
5598 J. Lobdell
Re: the first prison group? NOT San Quentin the first prison group? NOT San Quentin 3/18/2009 5:34:00 PM


In Warden Duffy's speech in 1960 at the Long Beach convention, he said he formed

the group in 1941 (AA Today, as quoted earlier) -- that's the word of the

group's founder, rather than what was said earlier by Bill (in AACOA) or the

Grapevine (1952). My guess is he knew. But of course the principal point is

the difference between a group (especially a prison group) and a meeting

(specifically one brought into a facility). If I am free to go up to GSO with

Mike, I'll be happy to, tho' I doubt my presence would add anything to his

research, since he is an experienced and so far as I know an efficient

researcher. Unless the NJ Group brought meetings into a prison, my guess is

Philadelphia was the first to do that, just as Rockland State Hospital was the

first institutional meeting (1939) and San Quentin the first prison group (1941

by Warden Duffy's word, though 1942 according to a report in the Grapevine and

according to Bill until Warden Duffy's 1960 speech gave a first-hand account).


0 -1 0 0
5599 Cece Archer
Re: Father Martin: why Ashley in Maryland instead of Carolina? Father Martin: why Ashley in Maryland instead of Carolina? 3/20/2009 3:40:00 PM


As I understand it the land Father Martin and

Mae wanted to obtain for the treatment center

in North Carolina was going to be difficult to

obtain for zoning, permits, etc. and they

wanted to be able to start the project soon.

The land was available in Maryland, so Ashley

was born.



Cecilia


0 -1 0 0
5600 Michael F. Margetis
Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house 3/20/2009 2:59:00 PM


Hi all,



On page 281 in "Dr. Bob And The Good Old

Timers" there's a paragraph that reads:



"Remembering his own disastrous trip to

Atlantic City and Bill's experiment with

keeping liquor on the sideboard to prove it

was no longer a temptation, Dr. Bob advocated

that members stay in dry places whenever

possible. 'You don't ask the Lord not to lead

you into temptation, then turn around and

walk right into it,' he said."



My question is, what's the story behind

Bill's experiment?



I've looked everywhere I can think of to

find that story, but can't find it.



Thanks,



Mike Margetis

Brunswick, Maryland


0 -1 0 0
5601 secondles
Re: Royalties for Grapevine related literature Royalties for Grapevine related literature 3/11/2009 6:55:00 PM


The answer to questions about royalties are

basically found in reading a copy of Bill's

WILL and Lois's WILL.



Les C



- - - -



From the moderator:



So does anybody know where a copy of either

of these wills could be found? Were they

probated in New York state?



G.C.


0 -1 0 0
5602 jax760
First 100 Sober: who were Jack S. and Sim R.? First 100 Sober: who were Jack S. and Sim R.? 3/22/2009 7:24:00 PM


In a February 1948 Grapevine article

entitled "Real Old-Timers Meet With New

Babies to Exchange Views on Program," we

find the following paragraph:



"The six who have been members a decade or

more and who came out from behind their

whiskers to talk a little about those earliest

days when AA was newborn and almost stillborn,

and their combined assets could be measured

in nickels and dimes - on some days - were:

Bill W., who with Dr. Bob of Akron started it

all; Horace C., Bert T., Dick S., Jack S. and

Sim R."



The first four are quite well known. Does

anyone know anything about the last two --

Jack S. and Sim R. -- who, based on the date

of the article and their having been described

as having "a decade or more" of sobriety,

would have to be included in a list of the

first 100 sober?



Very interested to know!



God Bless.



John B.


0 -1 0 0
5603 katiebartlett79
What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? 3/24/2009 12:06:00 PM


Foreword to second edition, page xviii:



"[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was

published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939

[in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor

of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine,

called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a

rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little

New York office which meanwhile had been

established. Each inquiry was painstakingly

answered; pamphlets and books were sent out

.... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that

800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery."



My group and I would like to know if anyone

knows what literature was sent out when it

states that "pamphlets and books were sent

out" from the New York AA office during the

period running from September to December of

1939.



Thanking u kindly,



Katie from Barking Big Book Study


0 -1 0 0
5604 Ernest Kurtz
Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house 3/26/2009 9:33:00 PM


Michael (and all),



The way I consistently heard it during my

1970s research, including from Lois herself,

was that Bill did not keep booze "on the

sideboard" but on a closet shelf in case they

needed it to help sober up some drunk. Lois

also said (and this may also be in her book)

that when they found the bottle as they were

preparing to move, both of them were surprised

that they had forgotten about it.



Much more research has been done since, of

course, but memory is a very tricky and in

general untrustworthy tool, especially in the

form of "someone told my sponsor's sponsor

that . . . ." On the other hand, we do

keep discovering new facets of the old story,

which is one great thing about the AAHL group.



ernie kurtz



- - - -



Original message: on Mar 20, 2009,

Michael F. Margetis wrote:



> Hi all,

>

> On page 281 in "Dr. Bob And The Good Old

> Timers" there's a paragraph that reads:

>

> "Remembering his own disastrous trip to

> Atlantic City and Bill's experiment with

> keeping liquor on the sideboard to prove it

> was no longer a temptation, Dr. Bob advocated

> that members stay in dry places whenever

> possible. 'You don't ask the Lord not to lead

> you into temptation, then turn around and

> walk right into it,' he said."

>

> My question is, what's the story behind

> Bill's experiment?

>

> I've looked everywhere I can think of to

> find that story, but can't find it.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mike Margetis

> Brunswick, Maryland

>

>


0 -1 0 0
5605 elg3_79
Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house 3/27/2009 10:48:00 AM


I believe this "idea" arose during Bill's

stay with Anne and Bob Smith, but my source

(http://www.barefootsworld.net/aa-bbtrivia.html)

is unclear as to whether this pre- or postdated

Dr. Bob's infamous Atlantic City jaunt.



This source gives the following explanation of

something that is said in the Big Book on

page 102 at the bottom of the page -- "Many of

us keep liquor in our homes"



This source attributes this custom to:



'Our co-founder, Dr Bob. He said "I was

adamant on having liquor. I said we had to

prove that you could live in the presence of

liquor. So I got two big bottles and put

them right on the sideboard and that drove

Anne wild for awhile."'



Y'all's in service

Ted G.


0 -1 0 0
5606 tomper87
Daily Reflections Daily Reflections 3/27/2009 1:28:00 PM


I have a first printing of The Daily Reflections

which does not include the listing of The

Twelve Steps and The Twelve Traditions. Can

anyone tell me at which printing they were

added to the book?



Thank you.



Tom P.


0 -1 0 0
5607 CloydG
Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house 3/26/2009 1:57:00 PM


Perhaps it comes from the practice, described

on page 103 of "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers,"

of giving small amounts of alcohol periodically

to alcoholics who were detoxing, over the first

day or two or three, to help keep them from

going into the DTs.



Clyde G.



- - - -



----- Original Message -----

From: Michael F. Margetis

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:59 AM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Bill's experiment with keeping liquor in the house





Hi all,



On page 281 in "Dr. Bob And The Good Old

Timers" there's a paragraph that reads:



"Remembering his own disastrous trip to

Atlantic City and Bill's experiment with

keeping liquor on the sideboard to prove it

was no longer a temptation, Dr. Bob advocated

that members stay in dry places whenever

possible. 'You don't ask the Lord not to lead

you into temptation, then turn around and

walk right into it,' he said."



My question is, what's the story behind

Bill's experiment?



I've looked everywhere I can think of to

find that story, but can't find it.



Thanks,



Mike Margetis

Brunswick, Maryland


0 -1 0 0
5608 LES COLE
RE: Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois''s wills Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois''s wills 3/27/2009 5:43:00 PM


Copies of the Agreement between Bill and

AAWorld Services, Inc dated April 29, 1963

can be found by entering: William Wilson Will

on the URL line which brings up GOOGLE sites.



Click Bill Wilson Royalty Agreement.



Therein are descriptions of Copyright

provisions, and references to Bill's WILL,

and references to Lois's WILL.



- - - -



The actual WILLs can be found the same way by

typing in Bill W WILL on URL line; then click

William Wilson's Last Will.



There was one written August 2, 1965 and one

written January 12, 1968.



- - - -



Lois's WILL can be found by entering Lois

Wilson Will On the URL line, then click

Lois Wilson's Last Will and Testament.



It was written August 11, 1983





Les C



- - - -



To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

From: elsietwo@msn.com

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:55:48 +0000

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Royalties

for Grapevine related literature



The answer to questions about royalties are

basically found in reading a copy of Bill's

WILL and Lois's WILL.



Les C


0 -1 0 0
5609 Glenn Chesnut
Re: Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois''s wills Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois''s wills 3/28/2009 1:10:00 PM


Les Cole's instructions take you to a copy of

the wills on a well-known anti-AA website (see

the end of this message for the URLs).



- - - -



An email from "Mitchell K." also refers us

to that same website.



<mitchell_k_archivist@yahoo.com>

((mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com))



- - - -



An email from Greg S. <gsjmia@ . . . . > also

mentions the copy of the wills on that site,

which he warns us "are not the actual papers

but retyped."



BUT GREG SAYS THAT THERE IS A BETTER SITE

TO GO TO:



If you want to post these for information

purposes, here is a better site (retyped also)

but there is the 1968 AND the 1965 will of

Bill, plus the 1963 royalty agreement:



http://aagso.org/aaws/heirs.htm  (Bill)



http://aagso.org/aaws/lois.htm  (Lois)



- - - -



ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Message #5608 from LES COLE <elsietwo@msn.com>

(elsietwo at msn.com)

Re: Big Book Royalties, Bill and Lois's wills



Copies of the Agreement between Bill and

AAWorld Services, Inc dated April 29, 1963

can be found by entering: William Wilson Will

on the URL line which brings up GOOGLE sites.

Click Bill Wilson Royalty Agreement.

Therein are descriptions of Copyright

provisions, and references to Bill's WILL,

and references to Lois's WILL.

- - - -

The actual WILLs can be found the same way by

typing in Bill W WILL on URL line; then click

William Wilson's Last Will.

There was one written August 2, 1965 and one

written January 12, 1968.

- - - -

Lois's WILL can be found by entering Lois

Wilson Will On the URL line, then click

Lois Wilson's Last Will and Testament.

It was written August 11, 1983

Les C



- - - -



LES'S INSTRUCTIONS TAKE YOU TO THIS WEBSITE:



http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-BillWill.html

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-LoisWill.html


0 -1 0 0
5610 Patricia
Bill Wilson''s Will - 12th day of January, 1968 Bill Wilson''s Will - 12th day of January, 1968 3/28/2009 8:55:00 AM


Bill Wilson's Will - 12th day of January, 1968





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I, WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON, residing in Bedford Hills, Westchester County, State

of New York, being of sound and disposing mind and memory, do hereby make,

publish and declare this instrument to be the First Codicil to my Last Will and

Testament dated August 2, 1965.

First: I revoke Article "FIRST" of my said Will.



Second: The following shall be added to my said Will in lieu of the former

Article "FIRST":



FIRST: I have entered into an agreement, dated April 29, 1963, with

Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., of 305 East 45th Street, New York,

New York, under which royalties may become payable to me with respect to certain

books or other material of which I am the author or which I have prepared for

publication [understand the background of these terms: the authors of the Big

Book and other publications get nothing but Bill and his heirs get the financial

rewards] as set forth in the agreement (the agreement and all modifications,

renewals or extensions thereof is hereinafter referred to as the "Royalty

Agreement"). Under the present terms of the Royalty Agreement, I have the right

to bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, and any other persons living at the

time of my death, life interests in the royalties payable after my death and I

also have the right to grant to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, the power to

designate in her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to probate, persons

selected by her who are living at the time of her death who shall be entitled to

receive, in such proportions as my said wife may designate, life interests after

her death in all or part of the royalties payable to her after my death.

Accordingly, I direct that all of the right, title or interest that I may have

at the time of my death in or to any royalties under the Royalty Agreement shall

be disposed of as follows:





A. I give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his Will to take 10% of the

royalties from his wife Lois and give them to his mistress Helen], of

Pleasantville, New York, if she survives me, a life interest in ten percent

(10%) of such royalties. If the said HELEN WYNN does not survive me, I direct

that the said ten percent (10%) of such royalties shall be disposed of in

accordance with the provisions of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this

Article FIRST.

B. I give and bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, if she survives me, a

life interest in the remaining ninety percent (90%) of such royalties. I also

grant to my said wife, if she survives me, the power to select and designate in

her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to probate, persons living at the

time of her death who are to receive life interests after her death in such

royalties in such proportions as she may designate. If my said wife fails to

exercise, in whole or in part, the power of appointment granted to her under the

preceding provisions of this Paragraph B, I direct that any royalties which

remain undisposed of as a result of such failure shall be disposed of in

accordance with the provisions of Paragraph C of this Article FIRST as though I

had survived my said wife and died immediately after her death.



C. If my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, does not survive me, I direct that all of

the right or title that I may have at the time of my death in and to the

remaining ninty percent (90%) of such royalties shall be divided into twenty

(20) equal shares, which shall be disposed of as follows:





1. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to my sister,

HELEN EVANS, if she survives me.

2. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my sister,

DOROTHY STRONG, if she survives me.



3. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my

brother-in-law, DR. LEONARD STRONG, if he survives me.



4. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my cousin,

HOWARD WILSON, if he survives me.



5. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my

brother-in-law, ROGERS BURNHAM, if he survives me.



6. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to LAURA BURNHAM

(the wife of my brother-in-law, ROGERS BURNHAM), if she survives me.



7. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my

brother-in-law, DR. LYMAN BURNHAM, if he survives me.



8. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to FLORENCE

BURNHAM (the wife of my brother-in-law, DR. LYMAN BURNHAM), if she survives me.



9. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my

sister-in-law, BARBARA JONES, if she survives me.



10. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to NELL WING,

if she survives me.



11. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to HARRIET

SEVERINO, if she survives me.



If any beneficiary named in any of subdivisions "1" through "11" of this

Paragraph C does not survive me, I direct that the share (or shares) and the

life interest in such share (or shares) of such deceased beneficiary shall be

divided among the beneficiaries named in subdivisions "1" through "11" of this

Paragraph C who do survive me, in the proportion that the share (or shares) of

each such surviving beneficiary bears (or bear) to the total shares of all such

surviving beneficiaries.

Third: I hereby revoke the sentence following subdivision "11" of Paragraph B

of

Article "THIRD" of my Will and add the following sentence in its place:



If any beneficiary named in any of subdivisions "1" through "11" of this

Paragraph B of this Article THIRD does not survive me, I direct that the share

(or shares) and the life interest in such share (or shares) of such deceased

beneficiary shall be divided among the beneficiaries named in subdivisions "1"

through "11" of this Paragraph B of this Article THIRD, who do survive me, in

the proportion that the share (or shares) of each such surviving beneficiary

bears (or bear) to the total shares of all such surviving beneficiaries.

Fourth: Except as modified herein, I ratify, confirm and republish my said

Will of August 2, 1965.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 12th day of

January, 1968.



William Griffith Wilson (L.S.)

WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON





The foregoing instrument was signed, sealed, published and declared by WILLIAM

GRIFFITH WILSON, the testator named herein, as and for a FIRST CODICIL to his

Last Will and Testament dated August 2, 1965, in our presence and in the

presence of each of us, at 460 Park Avenue.













--------------------------------------------------------------------------------









AA money leaves the Fellowship:

Bill Wilson's Previous Will - 2nd day of August 1965

I, WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON, residing in Bedford Hills, County of Westchester,

State of New York, being of sound and disposing mind and memory, do hereby make,

publish and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament, hereby revoking all

former Wills and Codicils by me at any time heretofore made.

FIRST: I have entered into an agreement, dated April 29, 1963, with

Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. of 305 East 45th Street, New York, New

York under which royalties may become payable to me with respect to certain

books or other material of which I may be the author or which I may prepare for

publication, as more particularly set forth in the said agreement (which

agreement, together with all modifications, renewals or extensions thereof is

hereinafter referred to as the "Royalty Agreement"). Under the present terms of

the Royalty Agreement, I have the right to bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM

WILSON, a life interest in the royalties payable after my death and I also have

the right to grant to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, the power to designate in

her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to probate, persons selected by her

who are living at the time of her death who shall be entitled to receive, in

such proportions as my said wife may designate, life interests after her death

in all or part of the royalties. If at the time of my death, I have the right

under the Royalty Agreement to bequeath to my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, a life

interest in the royalties payable after my death, I give and bequeath to my

wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, a life interest in such royalties, to the extent that

I have the right to do so under the Royalty Agreement, and I also grant to my

said wife, to the extent that I have the right to do so under the Royalty

Agreement, the power to select in her Last Will and Testament, duly admitted to

probate, persons living at the time of her death who are to receive a life

interest after her death in all or part of such royalties in such proportions as

my said wife may designate. If my wife, LOIS DURNHAM WILSON, shall not survive

me, I direct that all of the right, title or interest that I may have at the

time of my death in or to any royalties under the Royalty Agreement shall be

divided into twenty (20) equal shares which shall be disposed of as follows:



A. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to my sister,

HELEN EVANS, if she shall survive me.

B. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my sister,

DOROTHY STRONG, if she shall survive me.

C. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my

brother-in-law, DR. LEONARD STRONG, if he shall survive me.

D. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my cousin,

HOWARD WILSON, if he shall survive me.

E. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my

brother-in-law, ROGERS BURNHAM, if he shall survive me.

F. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to LAURA

BURNHAM (who is the wife of my brother-in-law Rogers Burnham), if she shall

survive me.

G. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to my

brother-in-law, DR. LYMAN BURNHAM, if he shall survive me.

H. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to FLORENCE

BURNHAM (who is the wife of my brother-in-law, Dr. Lyman Burnham), if she shall

survive me.

I. I give and bequeath a life interest in two of such shares to my

sister-in-law, BARBARA JONES, if she shall survive me.

J. I give and bequeath a life interest in three of such shares to NELL WING,

if she shall survive me.

K. I give and bequeath a life interest in one of such shares to HARRIET

SEVERINO, if she shall survive me.

If my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, shall not survive me and if any beneficiary

named in any paragraph of Paragraphs "A" through "K" of this Article "FIRST"

shall not survive me, I direct that the share (or shares) and the life interests

in such share (or shares), of such deceased beneficiary shall be divided among

the beneficiaries named in Paragraphs "A" through "K" of this Article "FIRST"

who shall survive me in the proportion that the share (or shares) of each such

surviving beneficiary bears (or bear) to the total shares of all such surviving

beneficiaries.

SECOND: I give, devise and bequeath all of the rest, residue and remainder

of my estate, whether real, personal or mixed, of whatsoever kind and nature and

wheresoever situate, of which I may die seized or possessed, or in which I may

have any interest, or over which I may have any power of appointment or

testamentary disposition (hereinafter referred to as my residuary estate), to my

wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, if she shall survive me.



THIRD: If my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, shall not survive me, I direct that

my residuary estate shall be disposed of as follows:





A. If at the time of my death I am the owner of a home (presently owned by my

wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON) located at Stepping Stones, Bedfords Hills, New York,

I give, devise and bequeath the said home together with all furniture,

furnishings, carpets, rugs, drapes and other household appurtenances that I may

own at the time of my death and which are then located in my said home in equal

shares to AL-ANON FAMILY GROUPS HEADQUARTERS, INC. of 125 East 23rd Street, New

York, New York and the GENERAL SERVICE BOARD OF A.A., INC. of 305 East 45th

Street, New York, New York.

B. I direct that the balance of my residuary estate shall be divided into

twenty (20) equal shares which shall be disposed of as follows:





1. I give, devise and bequeath three of such shares to my sister, HELEN EVANS,

if she shall survive me.

2. I give, devise and bequeath two of such shares to my sister, DOROTHY STRONG,

if she shall survive.

3. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR.

LEONARD STRONG, if he shall survive me.

4. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to my cousin, HOWARD WILSON,

if he shall survive me.

5. I give, devise and bequeath two of such shares to my brother-in-law, ROGERS

BURNHAM, if he shall survive me.

6. I give, devise and bequeath three of such shares to LAURA BURNHAM (the wife

of my brother-in-law ROGERS BURNHAM), if she shall survive me.

7. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to my brother-in-law, DR.

LYMAN BURNHAM, if he shall survive me.

8. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to FLORENCE BURNHAM (the wife

of my brother-in-law DR. LYMAN BURNHAM), if she shall survive me.

9. I give, devise and bequeath two of such shares to my sister-in-law, BARBARA

JONES, if she shall survive me.

10. I give devise and bequeath three of such shares to NELL WING, if she shall

survive me.

11. I give, devise and bequeath one of such shares to HARRIET SEVERINO, if she

shall survive me.



If any beneficiary named in any subdivision of subdivisions "1" through "11" of

this Paragraph "B" of this Article "THIRD" shall not survive me, the share of

such deceased beneficiary shall be divided among the beneficiaries named in

subdivisions "1" through "11" of this Paragraph "B" of this Article "THIRD" who

shall survive me in the proportion that the share of each such surviving

beneficiary bears to the total shares of all such surviving beneficiaries.

FOURTH: If any person named herein as devisee, legatee or beneficiary, and

I, should die simultaneously or under such circumstances that it is difficult or

impracticable to determine that one of us has survived the other, the provisions

herein relating to such person shall be given effect as if I had survived such

person.

FIFTH: My Executrix shall have full power and authority in her absolute and

uncontrolled discretion to hold and retain any of the property coming into her

hand hereunder in the same form of investment as that in which it is received by

her, although it may not be of the character of investments permitted by law to

executors, including, but not limited to, the right to continue the operation of

any business in which I may be engaged at the time of my death, for so long a

period as she in her solo, absolute and uncontrolled discretion, may deem

proper. She shall also have full power and authority, in her absolute and

uncontrolled discretion, to improve, sell or lease for any period although it

may extend beyond the duration of the administration of the estate, but not to

exceed twenty-one years, for any price and with any provisions for renewal or

renewals which she shall deem advisable, or mortgage or exchange the whole or

any part of the property, real or personal, at any time held by her hereunder,

for such price and upon such terms and conditions as may to her seem advisable.



My executrix in making investments and reinvestments shall not be limited to

securities of the character permitted for the investment of trust funds by the

laws of the State of New York or any other state, but instead shall have power

in her discretion at any time and from time to time to invest in, and to

purchase and hold for investment, such securities, including common and

preferred stocks and/or any other type or kind of property, including

non-income-producing securities or property and any so-called wasting investment

as she in her absolute and uncontrolled discretion shall deem advisable, and

from time to time to alter and vary any investment at any time made or held. I

specifically authorize my Executrix to hold uninvested any part of my estate or

funds for such time or times as she in her sole and uncontrolled judgment may

deem advisable. I have given my Executrix the unusual power to purchase and

hold non-income-producing property and wasting investments and even to hold

funds uninvested because I do not wish to limit her in her investment or

reinvestment of the estate and so possibly prevent nor meeting some economic

emergency which I cannot now anticipate. I desire her to be free to purchase

and hold such property as she may, in her sole and uncontrolled discretion, deem

necessary at any time to protect the corpus of the estate from depletion.



No purchaser at any sale made by my Executrix shall be bound to inquire into the

expediency, propriety, validity or necessity of any sale made by her or to see

to or be liable for the application of the purchase moneys arising therefrom.

My Executrix shall have the power in her discretion to vote in person or by

proxy all stock held by her; to assent to any action or non-action, to enter

into or consent to any reorganization, lease or sale, to pay out of any fund

administered hereunder to any committee, representative, agent or depositary,

any assessments, expenses, contributions and sums of money in connection with

any securities held by her; to exchange the securities held by her for other

securities issued in connection with such arrangement and to accept and retain

such other securities so received, anything herein to the contrary

notwithstanding; to register any property in the name of her nominees or in her

own name, or to hold the property unregistered or in such other form that title

shall pass by delivery, but without thereby increasing or decreasing her

liability as Executrix and, generally, to exercise in respect to all securities

held by her all the same rights and powers as are or may be lawfully exercised

by persons owning similar propery in their own right.



I give to my Executrix, in connection with the administration of my estate, or

in connection with the purchase, management or sale of any securities or other

property held by her as Executrix, power to employ agents, custodians,

depositaries, accountants, attorneys, investment counsel or other advisers, to

delegate to them discretionary powers and to compensate them for their services

as an expense of the administration of my estate.



I give to my Executrix power to insure or otherwise protect any personal

property constituting part of my estate.



In making any division or distribution of my estate, my Executrix shall have

full power to make such division or distribution in cash or in kind or partly in

cash and partly in kind and to allot to any separate beneficiary, in equal or

unequal proportions, specific securities or property or undivided interests

therein, to fix the value of any part of the property so divided or distributed,

and the value so fixed by her shall be binding and conclusive upon all persons

having any interest therein.



SIXTH: I nominate and appoint my wife, LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, to be the

Executrix of this Will. If my wife LOIS BURNHAM WILSON, should predecease me or

shall fail to qualify as Executrix or having qualified shall fail to continue to

act as Executrix, I nominate and appoint, in the following order, BERNARD B.

SMITH of 460 Park Avenue, New York, New York, LEONARD H. STEIBEL of 460 Park

Avenue, New York, New York, and MICHAEL ALEXANDER of 460 Park Avenue, New York,

New York, to be the substitute Executor in the place and stead of my said wife

or of any previous substitute Executor who may have predeceased me or who shall

have failed to qualify as Executor or having qualified shall fail to continue as

Executor.



Whenever the word "Executor" is used in this Last Will and Testament, it shall

be deemed to refer (unless the context shall indicate otherwise) to the

Executrix or substitute Executor then qualified and acting.



I direct that no Executrix or substitute Executor shall be required to give any

bond or other security in the State of New York or elsewhere.



IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 2nd day of August

1965.



WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON (L.S.)

WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON



The foregoing instrument was subscribed, sealed, published and declared by

WILLIAM GRIFFITH WILSON, the Testator above named, as and for his LAST WILL AND

TESTAMENT, in our presence and in the presence of each of us, and we at his

request and in his presence and at the same time and in the presence of each

other, subscribed our names and residences as attesting witnesses this 2nd day

of August 1965.



LEONARD H. STEIBEL residing at Hilldale Lane

Sands Point, N.Y.

ELEANOR P. FISHER residing at 78-31 264 St.

Glen Oaks, Floral Park, N.Y.

MICHAEL ALEXANDER residing at 73-12 35 Ave.

Queens, N.Y., N.Y.


0 -1 0 0
5611 John Barton
Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? 3/27/2009 10:57:00 PM


Books only during the Fall of 1939!

 

The first pamphlet wasn't until mid-1940 when

the office published the Houston Press articles.

Posted on silkworth.net

 

http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/houston_press1940.html

 

The foreword to the 2nd edition was written

about 15 years later so the error in memory

(Bill's) is not unusual as to the time-line.



The office was of course sending out Big Books

beginning in early April of 39.

 

PS Don't forget to celebrate the 70th birthday

of our book on April 10, 2009. This was the

date of publication listed on the copyright.

 

John B



- - - -



From: "Mitchell K."

<mitchell_k_archivist@yahoo.com>

(mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com)



Hi Katie,



The first official pamphlet published by the

Alcoholic Foundation was simply titled "AA."

It was basically a series of newspaper

articles written by Larry Jewell who moved

from Cleveland, Ohio to Houston, Texas after

he sobered up and was sponsored by Clarence

Snyder. Larry was offered a job with the

Houston Press by its owner as Larry was an

excellent reporter before his drinking took

over.



The books were the Big Book first published

in April 1939.



Mitchell Klein



- - - -



Original messafrom from katiebartlett79

<katiebartlett79@yahoo.co.uk>

(katiebartlett79 at yahoo.co.uk)

Subject: What pamphlets and books were sent

out in Fall 1939?



Foreword to second edition, page xviii:



"[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was

published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939

[in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor

of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine,

called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a

rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little

New York office which meanwhile had been

established. Each inquiry was painstakingly

answered; pamphlets and books were sent out

..... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that

800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery."



My group and I would like to know if anyone

knows what literature was sent out when it

states that "pamphlets and books were sent

out" from the New York AA office during the

period running from September to December of

1939.



Thanking u kindly,



Katie from Barking Big Book Study


0 -1 0 0
5612 chris fuccione
When did Helen Wynn die? When did Helen Wynn die? 3/29/2009 2:35:00 PM


I have a quick question. Is Helen Wynn still

alive?



I assume not. But when did she die?



- - - -



> A. I give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his Will to take 10% of

the royalties from his wife Lois and give them to his mistress Helen], of

Pleasantville, New York, if she survives me, a life interest in ten percent

(10%) of such royalties. If the said HELEN WYNN does not survive me, I direct

that the said ten percent (10%) of such royalties shall be disposed of in

accordance with the provisions of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this

Article FIRST.


0 -1 0 0
5613 Bill Lash
Barney Silkworth 1930 - 2009 Barney Silkworth 1930 - 2009 3/28/2009 8:16:00 PM


It is with much sadness that I inform you of

Barney Silkworth's obituary & funeral plans

(nephew of Dr. William D. Silkworth, M.D.):



http://woolleyfh.com/index.php?p=obituary_view&id=61622



- - - -



Barney Silkworth, 78, of Oceanport died on Friday, March 27, at home after a

long illness. He was born in Long Branch and graduated from Long Branch High

School in 1949. He served in the US Navy from 1953-54 and graduated from Trenton

State College in 1955. Mr. Silkworth worked for the Long Branch Board of

Education for just over fifty years, and retired in July of 2005. For 43 years,

he taught industrial arts, serving as the department head for industrial and

fine arts for several years. At the time of his retirement, Mr. Silkworth

oversaw the Board of Education buildings and grounds. He also served as the

Building Inspector for the Borough of Oceanport for nearly twenty years.



Mr. Silkworth was a talented craftsman and wood carver. His projects ranged from

small bird carvings to building and renovating boats and houses. He was a former

member of the Shore Shop Teachers' Association, the Building Inspectors'

Association, the Long Branch Ice Boat and Yacht Club, and the Oceanport

Republican Club. He also served for many years on the Oceanport Planning Board.



Mr. Silkworth was predeceased by his parents, Russell and Elsa Kraft Silkworth,

and his brother, William D. Silkworth. He is survived by his wife of 49 years,

Barbara Becker Silkworth; his daughter, Stacy Silkworth, Long Branch; his son,

William O. Silkworth, and daughter- in- law, Denise, and grandchildren, Samuel

and Henry, all of Oceanport. He also leaves his sister-in-law, Adelaide

Silkworth, of Hickory, NC; brother-in-law, Steven Becker, and his wife Maryann

of Oceanport. He leaves cousins, several nieces, nephews, great and great-great

nieces and nephews.



A Celebration of Life Service will be held at St. Luke's Methodist Church, 535

Broadway, Long Branch, on Saturday, April 4 at10 a.m. The family will receive

visitors after the service at the church. In lieu of flowers the family asks

that you consider contributions in his name to The Cancer Institute of New

Jersey, Tower Two Fifth Floor, 120 Albany Street, New Brunswick, NJ 08901-9919,

research of Dr. Dale Schaar; or St. Barnabas Hospice and Palliative Care Center,

95 Old Short Hills Road, 1st Floor, West Orange, NJ 07052. You may light a

candle of remembrance for Mr. Silkworth on the opposite page.


0 -1 0 0
5614 schaberg43
Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? 3/28/2009 6:06:00 PM


The first AA pamphlet came out in April 1939:



In the New York Archive of GSO, there is a copy of a 'pamphlet' that was made up

and distributed very shortly after the book was published. The book was

published on April 10, 1939 and two weeks later on April 24 there is a letter

from Ruth Hock to an S. Jenkins in New York City which starts out: "We are

wondering why we have not heard from you regarding our pamphlet on "Alcoholics

Anonymous" (Document 1939-253)



The 'pamphlet'in the archive (Documents 1939-230 to 233) are four pieces of

half-sized paper (5.5" x 8.5") that have been pre-printed on both sides -

producing 8 pages of text. The first page is a letter "Thank you for your

enquiry..." signed by "Works Publishing Company" and the following seven sides

contain excerpts from the book, including: five paragraphs from the "Doctor's

Opinion" followed by similarly short selections from "There is a Solution,"

"More About Alcoholism," "To Wives," "The Family Afterwards," "To Employers,"

and a quote from one of the personal stories in the rear (taken from page 393 of

the first printing of the book).



I suspect that this is the 'pamphlet' mentioned here.



Best,



Old Bill







--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "katiebartlett79" <katiebartlett79@...>

wrote:

>

> Foreword to second edition, page xviii:

>

> "[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was

> published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939

> [in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor

> of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine,

> called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a

> rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little

> New York office which meanwhile had been

> established. Each inquiry was painstakingly

> answered; pamphlets and books were sent out

> .... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that

> 800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery."

>

> My group and I would like to know if anyone

> knows what literature was sent out when it

> states that "pamphlets and books were sent

> out" from the New York AA office during the

> period running from September to December of

> 1939.

>

> Thanking u kindly,

>

> Katie from Barking Big Book Study

>


0 -1 0 0
5615 Fiona Dodd
Ignatia''s voyage from Ireland to America in April 1896 Ignatia''s voyage from Ireland to America in April 1896 3/28/2009 5:23:00 PM


On further research of the emmigration records I have found that the Gavin

Family sailed from Queenstown(now Cobh) in Cork to Philadelphia USA on April 2nd

1896, arriving in Philadelphia on 17th April 1896. The Gavin family were not

"two boaters", they sailed directly from Queenstown to Philadelphia, as has been

reported in other accounts. The terms two-boater and three-boater were coined to

describe Irish-American families whose meandering migratory paths to the United

States had begun with a sea voyage from Ireland to Newfoundland.



They sailed on the SS Indiana which was built in 1873. She belonged to the

International Navigation Co of New Jersey, which later became the American Line.



This was a 3,104 gross ton ship, length 343ft x beam 43ft, one funnel, two

masts, iron construction, single screw and a speed of 12 knots. There was

accommodation for 46-1st, 132-intermediate and 789-3rd class passengers. Built

by W.Cramp & Sons, Philadelphia, she was launched on 25/3/1873. She commenced

her first voyage on 27/10/1873 when she sailed from Philadelphia for Queenstown

(Cobh) and Liverpool. On 6/3/1889 she was chartered to Red Star Line and

completed a single round voyage from Antwerp to New York. In 1891 she was fitted

with triple expansion engines and rebuilt to accommodate intermediate and 3rd

class passengers only. On 1/12/1897 she commenced her last voyage from Liverpool

to Philadelphia and 28/3/1898 sailed from Philadelphia for Seattle, where she

was sold for service on the Pacific. On 3/4/1909 she was wrecked at Cape Tosco,

Mexico.







Below is a transcript of the details recorded for the Gavin Family.







Name: Pat GAVIN



Date of departure: 2 April 1896



Port of departure: Queenstown



Destination port: Philadelphia



Destination country: USA



Date of Birth:



Age: Adult



Sex: Male



Occupation: Labr



Notes:



Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3











Name: Barbara GAVIN



Date of departure: 2 April 1896



Port of departure: Queenstown



Destination port: Philadelphia



Destination country: USA



Date of Birth:



Age: Adult



Marital Status: Married



Sex: Female



Occupation: Wife



Notes:



Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3











Name: Bgt GAVIN



Date of departure: 2 April 1896



Port of departure: Queenstown



Destination port: Philadelphia



Destination country: USA



Date of Birth:



Age: Child



Marital Status:



Sex: Female



Occupation: Child



Notes:



Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3











passenger transcript details



Name: Pat GAVIN



Date of departure: 2 April 1896



Port of departure: Queenstown



Passenger destination port: Philadelphia, USA



Passenger destination: Philadelphia, USA



Date of Birth:



Age: Child



Marital status:



Sex: Male



Occupation: Son



Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 3











Ship: INDIANA



Official Number:



Master's name: Thompson



Steamship Line:



Where bound: Philadelphia, USA



Square feet: 2456



Registered tonnage: 2426



Passengers on voyage: 58


0 -1 0 0
5616 corafinch
Re: When did Helen Wynn die? When did Helen Wynn die? 3/31/2009 8:56:00 AM


--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"chris fuccione" <chrisfuccione@...> wrote:

>

> I have a quick question. Is Helen Wynn still

> alive?

>

> I assume not. But when did she die?

>

- - - -



If someone has a better source, disregard this. Assuming that Helen Wynn was

using that name at the time of her death, and that she is included in the Social

Security Death Index, I believe she must have been the one who died in Moroni,

Comoros in March 1978. The last address of that (American) Helen Wynn is listed

as "Europe," and the Helen Wynn who knew Bill Wilson had been living in Ireland

at the time of Bill's death.



Caveats: Helen Wynn was originally her stage name although I'm assuming it was

her legal name when Bill put her in his will. She was born in Utah (see Francis

Hartigan, most of whose information seems to have come from a 1939 NYT article

about her) as Helen Simis. She seems never to have used the name of her husband,

Shepperd Strudwick. Not everyone ends up in the Social Security Death records,

and if she did not I have clearly found the wrong Helen Wynn. She must have paid

into Social Security, however, if she worked for the Grapevine and so would be

expected to be on the list.



Whether that is the correct death record or not, I am reasonably sure that she

was neither "22 years younger than Lois" as some sources say, or "22 years

younger than Bill" as other sources have it. She was born around 1907 which

would make her 12 years younger than Bill.


0 -1 0 0
5617 priscilla_semmens
What are the words to the Texas Prayer? What are the words to the Texas Prayer? 3/30/2009 10:22:00 PM


April 1, 1940 - Larry J. of Houston is said to

have written "The Texas Prayer," used to open

AA meetings in Texas.



Does anyone have the words to this prayer?



- - - -



From the moderator:



Googling for AA and "Texas Prayer" gives a

reference to Bill Pittman, "Stepping Stones to

Recovery," p. 257, where Bill gave the

following prayer and claimed that this was

the Texas Prayer:

____________________



Our Father, we come to You as a friend.

You have said that, where two or three are gathered in Your name, there You will

be in the midst. We believe You are with us now.

We believe this is something You would have us do, and that it has Your

blessing.

We believe that You want us to be real partners with You in this business of

living, accepting our full responsibility, and certain that the rewards will be

freedom, and growth, and happiness.

For this, we are grateful.

We ask You, at all times, to guide us.

Help us daily to come closer to You, and grant us new ways of living our

gratitude.

____________________



Can anyone verify whether this is actually a prayer written back in 1940? It

does not sound like language and phraseology from 1940 to me. I would be willing

to stand corrected on that however.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5618 hartsell
RE: What are the words to the Texas Prayer? What are the words to the Texas Prayer? 3/31/2009 4:55:00 PM


I have heard this or similar wording at larger

Open Speaker meetings in Texas over the past

40+ years, but have no way of knowing if THIS

is the referenced one, or IF there is one known

as The Texas Prayer.



sherry c.h.





-----Original Message-----

On Behalf Of priscilla_semmens

Subject: What are the words to the Texas Prayer?



April 1, 1940 - Larry J. of Houston is said to

have written "The Texas Prayer," used to open

AA meetings in Texas.



Does anyone have the words to this prayer?



- - - -



From the moderator:



Googling for AA and "Texas Prayer" gives a

reference to Bill Pittman, "Stepping Stones to

Recovery," p. 257, where Bill gave the

following prayer and claimed that this was

the Texas Prayer:

____________________



Our Father, we come to You as a friend.

You have said that, where two or three are gathered in Your name, there You

will be in the midst. We believe You are with us now.

We believe this is something You would have us do, and that it has Your

blessing.

We believe that You want us to be real partners with You in this business of

living, accepting our full responsibility, and certain that the rewards will

be freedom, and growth, and happiness.

For this, we are grateful.

We ask You, at all times, to guide us.

Help us daily to come closer to You, and grant us new ways of living our

gratitude.

____________________



Can anyone verify whether this is actually a prayer written back in 1940? It

does not sound like language and phraseology from 1940 to me. I would be

willing to stand corrected on that however.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


0 -1 0 0
5619 J. Lobdell
Re: When did Helen Wynn die? When did Helen Wynn die? 3/31/2009 8:26:00 PM


Evidence of ship passenger lists (ships docking in NYC) shows Helen Simis (b.

Jan 17 1907) in 1930 and Helen Strudwick (b Jan 17 1907) in the 1940s. The

Helen Wynn who died at Moroni in 1978 was b. Jan 17 1907: she is therefore the

correct Helen Wynn. She was b. in Utah, the daughter of Richard and Lina Simis

(both b. 1874) and had several siblings. Her husband Shepperd Strudwick (jr),

1907-1983, was married from 1977 to another wife but is recorded as having had a

son by a previous marriage -- presumably the Shepperd Strudwick who was b. Los

Angeles June 14 1944, mother's maiden name Simis. Shepperd Strudwick Jr (real

name) and Helen Simis (Helen Wynn) were m. May 10, 1936. He m. his second wife

by 1947, third in 1958, fourth (Mary Jeffrey) in 1977. Their son, Shepperd

Strudwick III attended the Harvey School in Katonah, translated the French play

L'Ete in 1973 and has been connected with the Williamstown Theatre, but I don't

know where he is now, or if he's still alive (he'd only be 64).



> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

> From: corafinch@yahoo.com

> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:56:24 +0000

> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: When did Helen Wynn die?

>

> --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

> "chris fuccione" <chrisfuccione@...> wrote:

> >

> > I have a quick question. Is Helen Wynn still

> > alive?

> >

> > I assume not. But when did she die?

> >

> - - - -

>

> If someone has a better source, disregard this. Assuming that Helen Wynn was

using that name at the time of her death, and that she is included in the Social

Security Death Index, I believe she must have been the one who died in Moroni,

Comoros in March 1978. The last address of that (American) Helen Wynn is listed

as "Europe," and the Helen Wynn who knew Bill Wilson had been living in Ireland

at the time of Bill's death.

>

> Caveats: Helen Wynn was originally her stage name although I'm assuming it was

her legal name when Bill put her in his will. She was born in Utah (see Francis

Hartigan, most of whose information seems to have come from a 1939 NYT article

about her) as Helen Simis. She seems never to have used the name of her husband,

Shepperd Strudwick. Not everyone ends up in the Social Security Death records,

and if she did not I have clearly found the wrong Helen Wynn. She must have paid

into Social Security, however, if she worked for the Grapevine and so would be

expected to be on the list.

>

> Whether that is the correct death record or not, I am reasonably sure that she

was neither "22 years younger than Lois" as some sources say, or "22 years

younger than Bill" as other sources have it. She was born around 1907 which

would make her 12 years younger than Bill.

>

>


0 -1 0 0
5620 Arthur S
RE: What are the words to the Texas Prayer? What are the words to the Texas Prayer? 4/2/2009 11:09:00 AM


Glenn



The prayer was written in March (not April) 1940 by Larry J the founder of

AA in Texas (Cleveland, OH is the parent group of Texas).



I have a collection of copies of correspondence among Larry J, Ruth Hock and

Bobbi B. Included in the material is a copy of the prayer that is word for

word the same as the text cited in your message. The prayer's title was

"A.A. Prayer" and it concluded with "Amen."



I don't believe that usage of the prayer went too far beyond Houston and

don't know where Pittman got the idea that it did. There is much myth

circulating regarding Texas AA (e.g. the "Texas Prayer" and "Texas

Preamble") that have fragments of fact supplemented by anecdotal

embellishments that are not factual.



Larry J's downfall came almost as quickly as his miraculous rescue by the

Cleveland Group. Larry was always in very poor physical condition - drunk or

sober. He returned to IV drug use around the Spring of 1941 and then

returned to drinking shortly thereafter and was never able to sober up again

beyond brief intervals. Larry J passed away in May 1944.



Arthur S



-----Original Message-----

From: priscilla_semmens

Subject: What are the words to the Texas Prayer?



April 1, 1940 - Larry J. of Houston is said to

have written "The Texas Prayer," used to open

AA meetings in Texas.



Does anyone have the words to this prayer?



- - - -



From the moderator:



Googling for AA and "Texas Prayer" gives a

reference to Bill Pittman, "Stepping Stones to

Recovery," p. 257, where Bill gave the

following prayer and claimed that this was

the Texas Prayer:

____________________



Our Father, we come to You as a friend.

You have said that, where two or three are gathered in Your name, there You

will be in the midst. We believe You are with us now.

We believe this is something You would have us do, and that it has Your

blessing.

We believe that You want us to be real partners with You in this business of

living, accepting our full responsibility, and certain that the rewards will

be freedom, and growth, and happiness.

For this, we are grateful.

We ask You, at all times, to guide us.

Help us daily to come closer to You, and grant us new ways of living our

gratitude.

____________________



Can anyone verify this?



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5621 Arthur S
RE: Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? 4/3/2009 6:25:00 PM


There were a number of reprints circulated by the NY Office after

publication of the Big Book in 1939 and prior to publication of the Houston

Press articles by Larry J in early 1940. The reprints were often published

in 9x5 inch booklet (or pamphlet) format.



Shortly after relocating from Cleveland to Houston, Larry J sent a January

28, 1940 letter to Ruth Hock requesting copies of literature which he

identified as Dr Fosdick's review of the Big Book, a July 1939

Journal-Lancet article by Dr Silkworth (pre-publication portions of which

were included in "The Doctor's Opinion") and something called the "Mt. Airy

Sanitarium bulletin" (which I've yet to see). These literature items are

likely part of the "pamphlets" mentioned by Bill W in the Foreword to the

Second Edition as being sent out in late 1939. There could have been other

items reprinted as well, the NY office was always on the lookout for

favorable public relations references.



The published booklet (or pamphlet) of Larry J's articles first occurred

with limited printings in February and March 1940. After Larry J received a

release from the Houston Press, regular reprinting occurred from April 1940

on. The booklet also includes a supplement added to Larry J's articles that

listed the Twelve Steps. Larry discussed the Steps in his articles but

didn't list them. The booklet also includes the July 1939 Lancet-Journal

article by Dr Silkworth.



All of this follows closely after the time period mentioned by Bill W (i.e.

the Fall to end of 1939). However, as noted below by Mitchell K, the

publication is generally considered the AA Fellowship's first piece of

"official" literature explicitly financed and approved by the Alcoholic

Foundation. With the exception of the Big Book, the publication seems to be

the only other piece of AA literature predominantly written by an AA member.

The public relations blessing that sparked both the need for, and

wide-spread distribution of, the booklet (or pamphlet) was likely the

nation-wide publicity generated by the Rockefeller Dinner on February 8,

1940.



As far as errors in Bill's memory, he states in the Foreword to the Second

Edition that the Cleveland Group started in 1937 and he also omits mention

of the 1939 Cleveland Plain Dealer articles which followed shortly after the

Liberty Magazine article. The Cleveland Plain Dealer articles, in my

judgment, had a much more profound effect than the Liberty magazine article.

The combination of the two resulted in an outpouring of appeals for help in

Cleveland that quickly propelled Cleveland membership to a level that

dwarfed the combined membership of Akron and NY and kept it that way for

some time after.



Cheers

Arthur



-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Barton

Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:58 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in

Fall 1939?



Books only during the Fall of 1939!

 

The first pamphlet wasn't until mid-1940 when

the office published the Houston Press articles.

Posted on silkworth.net

 

http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/houston_press1940.html

 

The foreword to the 2nd edition was written

about 15 years later so the error in memory

(Bill's) is not unusual as to the time-line.



The office was of course sending out Big Books

beginning in early April of 39.

 

PS Don't forget to celebrate the 70th birthday

of our book on April 10, 2009. This was the

date of publication listed on the copyright.

 

John B



- - - -



From: "Mitchell K."

<mitchell_k_archivist@yahoo.com>

(mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com)



Hi Katie,



The first official pamphlet published by the

Alcoholic Foundation was simply titled "AA."

It was basically a series of newspaper

articles written by Larry Jewell who moved

from Cleveland, Ohio to Houston, Texas after

he sobered up and was sponsored by Clarence

Snyder. Larry was offered a job with the

Houston Press by its owner as Larry was an

excellent reporter before his drinking took

over.



The books were the Big Book first published

in April 1939.



Mitchell Klein



- - - -



Original messafrom from katiebartlett79

<katiebartlett79@yahoo.co.uk>

(katiebartlett79 at yahoo.co.uk)

Subject: What pamphlets and books were sent

out in Fall 1939?



Foreword to second edition, page xviii:



"[5 months after the 1st ed. of the Big Book was

published in April 1939,] in the fall of 1939

[in September] Fulton Oursler, then editor

of Liberty, printed a piece in his magazine,

called "Alcoholics and God." This brought a

rush of 800 frantic inquiries into the little

New York office which meanwhile had been

established. Each inquiry was painstakingly

answered; pamphlets and books were sent out

..... By the end of 1939 it was estimated that

800 alcoholics were on their way to recovery."



My group and I would like to know if anyone

knows what literature was sent out when it

states that "pamphlets and books were sent

out" from the New York AA office during the

period running from September to December of

1939.



Thanking u kindly,



Katie from Barking Big Book Study









------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links


0 -1 0 0
5622 jbendzinski
Re: First Black Woman In AA? First Black Woman In AA? 4/1/2009 1:03:00 PM


I read on the International Women's Conference website that Bertha C. of Kansas

City, MO was one of the first black women in Alcoholics Anonymous with lasting

sobriety. The first conference was in 1965 and she was on the organizing

committee. But I am having a world of trouble getting information about her or

any other early African-American women in program. If you discover anything,

please share with me!



- - - -



From the moderator:



http://silkworth.net/aagrowth/iaawc_history.html



says "Bertha C. informed me how she was the

only black woman in AA for a time until Vernetta

W. came in to the program."



But it gives no date for when she got sober.

Does anyone know more about her? Does anyone

in Kansas City have any information about when

Bertha came into the fellowship?



GFC


0 -1 0 0
5623 Glenn Chesnut
Early Black A.A. Early Black A.A. 4/6/2009 9:49:00 PM


The black A.A. people in north central Indiana were not the first in A.A. But we

know more about their stories and teachings than any other group of early black

A.A. men and women in the U.S. and Canada.

______________________________



Glenn C., "The Factory Owner & the Convict: Lives and Teachings of the A.A. Old

Timers"  http://hindsfoot.org/kfoc1.html



In 1948, a man named Bill Hoover and a woman named Jimmy Miller became the first

two black people to join A.A. in north central Indiana. Jimmy owned a highly

successful bar in South Bend right across the street from the Studebaker

automobile plant. Four chapters of this book are devoted to telling their story,

much of it in Jimmy Miller's own words.



PART SIX. Bill H. and Jimmy M.: Winning Inclusion for Black Alcoholics

Chapter 17. Jimmy's Bar

Chapter 18. The Interracial Group

Chapter 19. Meetings and Steps in Early A.A.

Chapter 20. He Knew It Was a God

______________________________

 

http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html

http://hindsfoot.org/nblack2.html

 

Jimmy Miller's Story: The First Lady of Black A.A. in the St. Joseph River

Valley

______________________________

 

Glenn C., The St. Louis Gambler & the Railroad Man: Lives and Teachings of the

A.A. Old Timers  http://hindsfoot.org/kstl1.html



Two other major early black leaders in that part of Indiana were Brownie (Harold

Brown) in South Bend and Goshen Bill (William Henry Caldwell) in Elkhart and

Goshen. Three chapters in this book are devoted to Brownie's story and his

message, and three additional chapters to Goshen Bill. Again, most of this is in

their own words.



PART ONE. Brownie

Chapter 1. The Professional Gambler and the St. Louis Blues

Chapter 2. Down and Out in South Bend

Chapter 3. Gratitude and the Man Who Had No Arms or Legs



PART FOUR. Goshen Bill

Chapter 9. Sleeping in a Dump Truck

Chapter 10. Fish Stories and Chickens Flying South

Chapter 11. Working the Twelve Steps

______________________________



http://hindsfoot.org/ndigsym.html shows photos of the meeting place called

Brownie's at 616 Pierce St. in South Bend, site of annual pilgrimages by the

Dignitaries Sympathy groups to honor the memory of the great black A.A. leader

Brownie and his friend and fellow A.A. worker Nick Kowalski (an ex-con who got

sober in one of the first A.A. prison groups in the United States).



People travel from Chicago one month; from East Lansing, Michigan, another

month; and sometimes from Bloomington in southern Indiana to give leads at

Brownie's and give honor to the great black A.A. leader who started the Saturday

evening meeting there (along with Raymond I., whom Brownie sponsored, who is

still alive and active).

______________________________



The Wisdom of Goshen Bill

http://hindsfoot.org/nkosc3gb.html

______________________________



http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html

http://hindsfoot.org/nblack2.html

http://hindsfoot.org/nblack3.html



"Early Black A.A. along the Chicago-Gary-South Bend Axis" The Stories and

Memories of Early Black Leaders Told in Their Own Words. Some of the earliest

black A.A. groups in the United States were formed c. 1945-48 along an axis

running from Chicago eastward through Gary to South Bend, Indiana. These three

cities were linked by an interurban rail line called the South Shore Railroad

which made it easy for people to travel back and forth. We know much more at

present about early black A.A. in this area than we do about any other part of

the United States.



INCLUDES:



(a) Interview with Bill Williams of the Evans Avenue A.A. Group in Chicago (came

into A.A. in Chicago in 1945).



(b) Jimmy Miller's Story: The First Lady of Black A.A. in the St. Joseph River

Valley



(c) Bill Williams' Story: Coming from Chicago to speak to the white A.A.'s in

South Bend



(d) Two early South Bend answers to racism: (1) Brownie's meeting place at 616

Pierce Street, just off Portage Avenue near downtown South Bend, and (2) Bill

Hoover's Interracial Group.



(e) South Bend in 1948 and 1949



(f) Chicago in 1945: The first black people to join A.A. in Chicago

______________________________



http://hindsfoot.org/ngary1js.html



John Shaifer: A major Indiana early black A.A. leader from Gary. His work with

prisoners all over the state. His lead and an interview with him.


0 -1 0 0
5624 loranarcher
Study of access to and continuance in Alcoholics Anonymous Study of access to and continuance in Alcoholics Anonymous 4/8/2009 12:47:00 PM


The 1990 AA World Services analysis of the AA Triennials Membership

surveys noted that one of the surveys' limitations was the lack of

information on "drop outs".





To provide this information I did an analysis of data from NIAAA 1992

National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey (NLAES) to describe

and compare 1) those who never attended AA, 2) those who attended AA

and dropped out, and 3) those who continued to attend AA.





The key findings from the study are:





· These data from a nationally representative sample of US

adults with alcohol use disorders revealed a robust significant

association of high symptom severity with access, continuation and

discontinuation from Alcoholics Anonymous.





· The association of high symptom severity and negative life

events supports the behavioral economic model of AA access and

continuation as proposed in this study.





· Variables associated with access to AA were also associated

with continuation in AA, except for the variables for gender and

education level. Women were less likely to attend AA, but more likely to

continue attending AA. College educated respondents were less likely to

attend AA, but more likely to continue attending AA.





· A sub-group of US adults with severe externalizing disorders,

identified in this study, are associated with access to and continuation

in AA. The measure of high severity in this study appears to replicate

the AA concept of "real alcoholics" as described in Chapter Three of the

Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.



· In the US there is a significant geographic regional

variation in access to and continuation in AA: Highest access in the

West and lowest in the South







The complete study report is available online as a Google Knol:

A Model of Access to and Continuance in Alcoholics Anonymous



http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/a-model-of-access-to-and-continuance-in/33\

nxpux3imfog/4




Loran



- - - -



Note from the moderator:



The full-length paper (whose URL is given above)

has some extremely interesting and informative

bar graphs which display who is more likely, and

who is less likely, to attend AA meetings.



Some make good sense by normal AA experience. Having

a serious automobile accident because of drinking

increases the chance that the alcoholic will start

attending AA meetings.



Some of the data was surprising to me, however.

Loran Archer (who is one of the really great

alcoholism researchers) did not find any significant

racial differences. Blacks were just as likely as

whites to start going to AA meetings under the

same circumstances, for example, according to his

data.



Men are more apt than women to START going to

AA meetings. But once they are attending meetings,

women are more apt than men to KEEP ON GOING to

meetings.



Glenn Chesnut


0 -1 0 0
5625 Cindy Miller
Re: First Black Woman In AA? First Black Woman In AA? 4/6/2009 10:27:00 PM


I recently attended a wonderful all-day event in Washington, DC,

which was a celebration of the Cosmopolitan Group, first known as the

"Washington Colored Group".



Quoting from the program that was given out: "....The Group of

approximately 15 men & women....grew to nearly 30 members in the

second year." (That would be 1946.)



-cm



P.S. Here in Philadelphia, one of our long-time black female members,

Julia S., will soon be celebrating 50 years.



- - - -



From: jm48301@aol.com (jm48301 at aol.com)



Of possible interest:



http://www.internationalwomensconference.org/history.html



- - - -



From: jenny andrews <jennylaurie1@hotmail.com>

(jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com)



Then of course there is "Jim's Story" in the Big Book: "This physician, one of

the earliest members of AA's first black group, tells how freedom came as he

worked among his people." (His people, presumably the black community).

Anecdotally I've heard that in the Troubles in northern Ireland AA meetings were

one of the few places where Catholics and Protestants sat down together in

peace; and blacks and whites in apartheid south Africa (though perhaps that was

a clandestine arrangement). Maybe the respective GSO's could confirm ....


0 -1 0 0
5626 Keith
Re: Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house Bill''s experiment with keeping liquor in the house 3/27/2009 6:29:00 PM


I agree with Clyde G. Regardless of why Bill W. did it, we know that in the

years before rehab centers, alcoholics had to detox each other, and it was

'necessary' to keep whiskey or such in certain homes in those days!



I don't defend it in any alcoholic's home, but on the other hand if we have

worked the 12 steps, then we can apply BB pg. 101-102. That statement, let us

remember, is in the context of having worked all 12 steps. It says at top of

page 101 that we should NOT be around such if we are weak. Again the context is

that after working steps, we should have some emotional muscle, and be able to

be in people's homes without craving, since we have now 'reached a point of

neutrality' regarding alcohol.



I thought this might be helpful for some of the newer recovering alcoholics on

this list.



Keith R.



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "CloydG" <cloydg449@...> wrote:

>

> Perhaps it comes from the practice, described

> on page 103 of "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers,"

> of giving small amounts of alcohol periodically

> to alcoholics who were detoxing, over the first

> day or two or three, to help keep them from

> going into the DTs.

>

> Clyde G.

>



- - - -



From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com)



I do not know if it still is looked on as true, but years ago, they used to

say the first 36 hours were the worse for alcoholics, and they had to watch

out that withdrawal did not kill the alcoholics. The saying was that drug

addicts detoxifying had it rougher than alcoholics but alcoholics could die in

those first hours. In the absence of trained medical people some form of

gradual withdrawal might be best. My interest would be that we did not do

anything to the sufferer to endanger him.



- - - -



From: jenny andrews <jennylaurie1@hotmail.com>

(jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com)



"Many (sic) of us keep liquor in our homes. We often need it to carry green

recruits through a severe hangover..." (Big Book, page 102, fourth edition).

However, "These allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all

..." (The Doctor's Opinion, page xxviii op cit my emphasis). So when we say,

"It's the first drink that does the damage", it ain't necessarily so. Bill gave

Dr Bob a bottle of beer to calm his nerves prior to to his carrying out a

surgical procedure on 10 June 1935. As far as we know, and we have no reason to

doubt it, that was Dr Bob's last drink, and the date of AA's foundation

(Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, page 71 my edition). And how does Dr Bob's

advice about keeping out of wet places square with contrary advice in the Big

Book, viz: "If you are with a person who wants to eat in a bar, by all means go

along... You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such

an errand (to be helpful to others)." (Big Book ibid)


0 -1 0 0
5627 Glenn Chesnut
Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland on the SS Indiana Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland on the SS Indiana 4/10/2009 1:57:00 PM


Now with photographs of the ship and harbor.

 

http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia3.html

 

Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland to America

in 1896:  emigration records showing the Gavin family

sailing from Queenstown (now Cobh) in Cork on the

SS Indiana on 2 April 1896, arriving in Philadelphia

on 17 April 1896.

 

From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo)

 



(See http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html for

other material from Fiona on Sister Ignatia.)

 


0 -1 0 0
5628 elg3_79
Re: What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? What pamphlets and books were sent out in Fall 1939? 4/11/2009 9:44:00 AM


--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Arthur S" <ArtSheehan@...> wrote:

>

> Shortly after relocating from Cleveland to Houston, Larry J sent a January

> 28, 1940 letter to Ruth Hock requesting copies of literature which he

> identified as Dr Fosdick's review of the Big Book, a July 1939

> Journal-Lancet article by Dr Silkworth (pre-publication portions of which

> were included in "The Doctor's Opinion") and something called the "Mt. Airy

> Sanitarium bulletin" (which I've yet to see).



Pursuant to this, I searched for a while for the mystery document

from the Mt. Airy Sanitarium, it having rung a bell somewhere deep

in my memory .. Googling turned up towns or areas called "Mt. Airy"

which had sanitariums in the first half of the 20th century, very

likely treating alcoholics, in Maryland, Colorado and Pennsylvania.

Does anyone know which one might be the producer of the bulletin?



(Maryland's Garrett Sanitarium is long disused, but there may be

traces of the institutions active in the 1930s available in the

Philadelphia and Denver areas.)



Thanks for the train of thought, Ted G.


0 -1 0 0
5629 aadavidi
State liquor agency mentioned in The Doctors Nightmare State liquor agency mentioned in The Doctors Nightmare 4/12/2009 11:10:00 AM


In "DOCTOR BOB'S NIGHTMARE" is the following

statement (Big Book page 171):



"No beer or liquor was sold in the neighborhood, except at the State liquor

agency where perhaps one might procure a pint if he could convince the agent

that he really needed it. Without this proof the expectant purchaser would be

forced to depart empty handed with none of what I later came to believe was the

great panacea for all human ills. Men who had liquor shipped in from Boston or

New York by express were looked upon with great distrust and disfavor by most of

the good townspeople."



Can anyone offer a clear description of the function of the Vermont State liquor

agency in the late 1800's and why a person couldn't purchase all he or she

wanted?



[Dr. Bob was born August 8, 1879 in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, where he was raised.

He graduated from Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, in 1902.]


0 -1 0 0
5630 jm48301
Is the silkworth.net site down? Is the silkworth.net site down? 4/12/2009 4:12:00 PM


Is there a reason, beyond my own incompetence,

why I am unable to access the Silkworth site?



I have tried both of these:



http://www.silkworth.net/



http://silkworth.net/


0 -1 0 0
5631 jeffyour
Re: State liquor agency mentioned in Doctor Bob''s Nightmare State liquor agency mentioned in Doctor Bob''s Nightmare 4/13/2009 9:18:00 AM


This article from the June 18, 1902 New York Times is an editorial on the issue

of Prohibition (of Alcohol), which had been in place in Vermont for fifty years

already then. That's why the state agent was circumspect of any request for

alcohol.



http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C00E1D61130E132A2575BC1A\

9609C946397D6CF




see also:



http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Lalor/llCy868.html



which gives dates of passage of the "Maine Law" for several NE US states.



Jeffrey A. Your 216.691.0917 home

Past Delegate 216.397.4244 work

Panel 57, Area 54 216.397.1803 fax



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



> In "DOCTOR BOB'S NIGHTMARE" is the following

> statement (Big Book page 171):

>

> "No beer or liquor was sold in the neighborhood, except at the State liquor

agency where perhaps one might procure a pint if he could convince the agent

that he really needed it. Without this proof the expectant purchaser would be

forced to depart empty handed with none of what I later came to believe was the

great panacea for all human ills. Men who had liquor shipped in from Boston or

New York by express were looked upon with great distrust and disfavor by most of

the good townspeople."

>

> Can anyone offer a clear description of the function of the Vermont State

liquor agency in the late 1800's and why a person couldn't purchase all he or

she wanted?

>

> [Dr. Bob was born August 8, 1879 in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, where he was

raised. He graduated from Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, in 1902.]

>


0 -1 0 0
5633 Glenn Chesnut
Correct date of Sister Ignatia''s birth: 1 January 1889 Correct date of Sister Ignatia''s birth: 1 January 1889 4/13/2009 2:15:00 PM


http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia4.html

 

"Sister Ignatia: baptismal record (birth certificate) and the passenger manifest

for the SS Indiana," from Fiona D. (County Mayo)

 

Sister Ignatia's date of birth, as given in some of the older historical

sources, needs to be corrected. Born Bridget Gavin, this photograph of her

baptismal record shows that she was born on 1 January 1889. This is the date

which should be used. Also photographs of the three sheets of the original

passenger manifest showing Sister Ignatia and her family embarking on the SS

Indiana.  From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo).

 

- - - -

 

ALL FOUR ITEMS FROM THAT SOURCE

http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html

 

http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia1.html

Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland  Photos of the just discovered ruins of

the two-roomed stone cottage where Sister Ignatia Gavin, the Angel of Alcoholics

Anonymous, was born on 1 January 1889 at Shanvalley, Burren, in County Mayo.

Photos and description (13 July 2008) by the Irish AA historian Fiona D.

 

http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia2.html

More on Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland:  The Neary family's rental

holdings in Griffith's Land Valuation of 1855  When Patrick Gavin and Barbara

Neary (Ignatia's father and mother) got married, the couple set up housekeeping

in a part of County Mayo where numerous members of the Neary family lived,

renting land on the Earl of Lucan's estate.  From Irish AA historian and

archivist Fiona D. in County Mayo.

 

http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia3.html

Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland to America in 1896  Emigration records

showing the Gavin family sailing from Queenstown (now Cobh) in Cork on the SS

Indiana on 2 April 1896, arriving in Philadelphia on 17 April 1896, with

photographs of the ship and harbor.  From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County

Mayo).

 

http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia4.html

Sister Ignatia:  baptismal record (birth certificate) and the passenger manifest

for the SS Indiana  Sister Ignatia's date of birth, as given in some of the

older historical sources, needs to be corrected. Born Bridget Gavin, this

photograph of her baptismal record shows that she was born on 1 January 1889.

This is the date which should be used. Also photographs of the three sheets of

the original passenger manifest showing Sister Ignatia and her family embarking

on the SS Indiana.  From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo).

 


0 -1 0 0
5634 Cindy Miller
Markings AA archives newsletter Markings AA archives newsletter 4/17/2009 8:40:00 AM


Mornin' All-



Could someone help me out by giving me the

web address for "Markings"? I can't seem to

find it...



Thanks.



-cm

`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>



- - - -



From the moderator:



Markings - Your Archives Interchange (Newsletter)

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=24



CURRENT ISSUE:

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/f-151_markings_winter08.pdf


0 -1 0 0
5635 doclandis@aol.com
Re: Is the silkworth.net site down? Is the silkworth.net site down? 4/13/2009 12:00:00 PM


"This web site silkworth.net is currently

unavailable due to exceeded monthly traffic

quota. Please visit again later."



I hope someone can shed some better light

on the situation.



Mark



- - - -



From: Buzz G <buzzgould@gmail.com> (buzzgould at gmail.com)



When I go to both of those pages, I get this message:



"This website www.silkworth.net is currently unavailable due to

exceeded monthly traffic quota. Please visit again later."



A few years ago this use to happen at the end of the month. Not good

to see this error message on the 11th :(



- - - -



From: "Ben Humphreys" <blhump272@sctv.coop> (blhump272 at sctv.coop)



You did the right thing by asking a question. It works every time. Ben



- - - -



"Exceeded monthly traffice" also from:



DOROTHY BENSON <dd11983@yahoo.com> (dd11983 at yahoo.com)



"Bob McK." <bobnotgod2@att.net> (bobnotgod2 at att.net)



- - - -



Original message from <jm48301@aol.com> (jm48301 at aol.com)

>

>

> Is there a reason, beyond my own incompetence,

> why I am unable to access the Silkworth site?

>

> I have tried both of these:

>

> _http://www.silkworthttp:/_ (http://www.silkworth.net/)

>

> _http://silkworth.http_ (http://silkworth.net/)

>

>


0 -1 0 0
5636 J. Lobdell
Re: Is the silkworth.net site down? Is the silkworth.net site down? 4/13/2009 5:17:00 PM


Could someone on this listserv familiar with

the workings of the silkworth site inform us

whether the screen showing excessive monthly

use of site (or whatever the phrase is) in fact

represents hacking into the site and possibly

a virus released? If not, does anyone know

how long the site will be down?



- - - -



From: "allan_gengler"

<agengler@wk.net> (agengler at wk.net)



The host states:



"This website silkworth.net is currently

unavailable due to exceeded monthly traffic

quota. Please visit again later."



So too many people have visited it or some

hack ran a denial of service against it.


0 -1 0 0
5637 J. Lobdell
Re: Markings AA archives newsletter Markings AA archives newsletter 4/17/2009 5:15:00 PM


The Markings portal webpage is



www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=24,



from which you can access copies.


0 -1 0 0
5638 Arthur S
RE: Markings AA archives newsletter Markings AA archives newsletter 4/17/2009 5:09:00 PM


Link is below (or enter the word "markings"

in the "Search our site" box and it will take

you there.



http://aa.org/results.cfm?results=markings



Sign up for a digital subscription.



You can use the AA.org search function to get

to all kinds of goodies on the web site.



Cheers

Arthur


0 -1 0 0
5639 buckjohnson41686
Re: Daily Reflections Daily Reflections 4/17/2009 2:41:00 AM


I don't see them in the 2nd printing (nov 1990)

:)



-- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"tomper87" <tomper99@...> wrote:

>

> I have a first printing of The Daily Reflections

> which does not include the listing of The

> Twelve Steps and The Twelve Traditions. Can

> anyone tell me at which printing they were

> added to the book?

>

> Thank you.

>

> Tom P.

>


0 -1 0 0
5640 Fiona Dodd
Niacin, AA, Bill W and Abram Hoffer Niacin, AA, Bill W and Abram Hoffer 4/18/2009 1:08:00 AM


Vitamin B-3: Niacin and Its Amide

by A. Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D.



The first water soluble vitamins were numbered in sequence according to

priority of discovery. But after their chemical structure was determined

they were given scientific names. The third one to be discovered was the

anti-pellagra vitamin before it was shown to be niacin. But the use of the

number B-3 did not stay in the literature very long. It was replaced by

nicotinic acid and its amide (also known medically as niacin and its amide).

The name was changed to remove the similarity to nicotine, a poison.





The term vitamin B-3 was reintroduced by my friend Bill W., co-founder of

Alcoholics Anonymous, (Bill Wilson). We met in New York in 1960. Humphry

Osmond and I introduced him to the concept of mega vitamin therapy. We

described the results we had seen with our schizophrenic patients, some of

whom were also alcoholic. We also told him about its many other properties.

It was therapeutic for arthritis, for some cases of senility and it lowered

cholesterol levels.





Bill was very curious about it and began to take niacin, 3 g daily. Within a

few weeks fatigue and depression which had plagued him for years were gone.

He gave it to 30 of his close friends in AA and persuaded them to try it.

Within 6 months he was convinced that it would be very helpful to

alcoholics. Of the thirty, 10 were free of anxiety, tension and depression

in one month. Another 10 were well in two months. He decided that the

chemical or medical terms for this vitamin were not appropriate. He wanted

to persuade members of AA, especially the doctors in AA, that this would be

a useful addition to treatment and he needed a term that could be more

readily popularized. He asked me the names that had been used. I told him it

was originally known as vitamin B-3. This was the term Bill wanted. In his

first report to physicians in AA he called it "The Vitamin B-3 Therapy."

Thousands of copies of this extraordinary pamphlet were distributed.

Eventually the name came back and today even the most conservative medical

journals are using the term vitamin B-3.





Bill became unpopular with the members of the board of AA International. The

medical members who had been appointed by Bill, felt that he had no business

messing about with treatment using vitamins. They also "knew" vitamin B-3

could not be therapeutic as Bill had found it to be. For this reason Bill

provided information to the medical members of AA outside of the National

Board, distributing three of his amazing pamphlets. They are now not readily

available.





Vitamin B-3 exists as the amide in nature, in nicotinamide adenine

dinucleotide (NAD). Pure nicotinamide and niacin are synthetics. Niacin was

known as a chemical for about 100 years before it was recognized to be

vitamin B-3. It is made from nicotine, a poison produced in the tobacco

plant to protect itself against its predators, but in the wonderful economy

of nature which does not waste any structures, when the nicotine is

simplified by cracking open one of the rings, it becomes the immensely

valuable vitamin B-3.





Vitamin B-3 is made in the body from the amino acid tryptophan. On the

average 1 mg of vitamin B-3 is made from 60 mg of tryptophan, about 1.5%

Since it is made in the body it does not meet the definition of a vitamin;

these are defined as substances that can not be made. It should have been

classified with the amino acids, but long usage of the term vitamin has

given it permanent status as a vitamin. The 1.5% conversion rate is a

compromise based upon the conversion of tryptophan to N-methyl nicotinamide

and its metabolites in human subjects. I suspect that one day in the far

distant future none of the tryptophan will be converted into vitamin B-3 and

it then will truly be a vitamin. According to Horwitt [1], the amount

converted is not inflexible but varies with patients and conditions. For

example, women pregnant in their last three months convert tryptophan to

niacin metabolites three times as efficiently as in non-pregnant females.

Also there is evidence that contraceptive steroids, estrogens, stimulate

tryptophan oxygenase, the enzyme that converts the tryptophan into niacin.





This observation raises some interesting speculations. Women, on average,

live longer then men. It has been shown for men that giving them niacin

increases their longevity. [2] Is the increased longevity in women the

result of greater conversion of tryptophan into niacin under the stimulus of

their increase in estrogen production? Does the same phenomenon explain the

decrease in the incidence of coronary disease in women?





The best-known vitamin deficiency disease is pellagra. More accurately it is

a tryptophan deficiency disease since tryptophan alone can cure the early

stages. Pellagra was endemic in the southern U.S.A. until the beginning of

the last world war. It can be described by the four D's: dermatitis,

diarrhea, dementia and death. The dementia is a late stage phenomenon. In

the early stages it resembles much more the schizophrenias, and can only

with difficulty be distinguished from it. The only certain method used by

early pellagrologists was to give their patients in the mental hospitals

small amounts of nicotinic acid. If they recovered they diagnosed them

pellagra, if they did not they diagnosed them schizophrenia. This was good

for some of their patients but was not good for psychiatry since it

prevented any continuing interest in working with the vitamin for their

patients who did not recover fast, but who might have done so had they given

them a lot more for a much longer period of time, the way we started doing

this in Saskatchewan. I consider it one of the schizophrenic syndromes.





Indications

I have been involved in establishing two of the major uses for vitamin B-3,

apart from its role in preventing and treating pellagra. These are its

action in lowering high cholesterol levels [3] and in elevating high density

lipoprotein cholesterol levels (HDL), and its therapeutic role in the

schizophrenias and other psychiatric conditions. It has been found helpful

for many other diseases or conditions. These are psychiatric disorders

including children with learning and behavioral disorders, the addictions

including alcoholism and drug addiction, the schizophrenias, some of the

senile states. Its efficacy for a large number of both mental and physical

conditions is an advantage to patients and to their doctors who use the

vitamin, but is difficult to accept by the medical profession raised on the

belief that there must be one drug for each disease, and that when any

substance appears to be too effective for many conditions, it must be due

entirely to its placebo effect, something like the old snake oils.





I have thought about this for a long time and have within the past year

become convinced that this vitamin is so versatile because it moderates or

relieves the body of the pernicious effect of chronic stress. It therefore

frees the body to carry on its routine function of repairing itself more

efficiently. The current excitement in medicine is the recognition that

hyperoxidation, the formation of free radicals, is one of the basic damaging

processes in the body. These hyperexcited molecules destroy molecules and

damage tissues at the cellular level and at the tissue level.





All living tissue which depends on oxygen for respiration has to protect

itself against these free radicals. Plants use one type of antioxidants and

animals use another type. Fortunately there is a wide overlap and the same

antioxidants such as vitamin C are used by both plants and animals. There is

growing recognition that the system adrenaline -> adrenochrome plays a major

role in the reactions to stress. I have elaborated this in a further report

for this journal. [4]





The catecholamines, of which adrenalin is the best known example, and the

aminochromes, of which adrenochrome is the best known example, are

intimately involved in stress reactions. Therefore to moderate the influence

of stress or to negate it, one must use compounds which prevent these

substances from damaging the body. Vitamin B-3 is a specific antidote to

adrenalin, and the antioxidants such as vitamin C, Vitamin E, beta carotene,

selenium and others protect the body against the effect of the free radicals

by removing them more rapidly from the body. Any disease or condition which

is stress related ought therefore to respond to the combined use of vitamin

B-3 and these antioxidants provided they are all given in optimum doses,

whether small or large as in orthomolecular therapy. I will therefore list

briefly the many indications for the use of vitamin B-3.





For each condition I will describe one case to illustrate the therapeutic

response. For each condition I can refer to hundreds and thousands of case

histories and have already in the literature described many of them in

detail. [5]





Psychiatric

1) The Schizophrenias. I have reviewed this for this journal. [6]





2) Children with Learning and/or Behavioral Disorders.





In 1960 seven year-old Bruce came to see me with his father. Bruce had been

diagnosed as mentally retarded. He could not read, could not concentrate,

and was developing serious behavioral problems such as cutting school

without his parents' knowledge. He was being prepared for special classes

for the retarded. He excreted large amounts of kryptopyrrole, the first

child to be tested. I started him on nicotinamide, one gram tid. Within four

months he was well. He graduated from high school, is now married, has been

fully employed and has been paying income tax. He is one case out of about

1500 I have seen since 1960.





Current treatment is more complicated as described in this Journal. [7]





3) Organic Confusional States, non-Alzheimers forms of dementia,

electroconvulsive therapy-induced memory disturbances.





In 1954 I observed how nicotinic acid relieved a severe case of post ECT

amnesia in one month. Since then I have routinely given it in conjunction

with ECT to markedly decrease the memory disturbance that may occur during

and after this treatment. I would never give any patient ECT without the

concomitant use of nicotinic acid. It is very helpful, especially in

cardiovascular-induced forms of dementia as it reverses sludging of the red

blood cell and permits proper oxygenation of the cells of the body. For

further information see Niacin Therapy in Psychiatry. [8]





In September 1992, Mr. C., 76 years-old, requested help with his memory. He

was terribly absentminded. If he decided to do something, by the time he

arrived where he wanted to do it he had forgotten what it was he wanted to

do. His short-term memory was very poor and his long-term memory was

beginning to be affected. I started him on a comprehensive vitamin program

including niacinamide 1.5 G daily. Within a month he began to improve. I

added niacin to his program. By February 1993 he was normal. April 26, 1993,

he told me he had been so well he had concluded he no longer needed any

niacin and decreased the dose from 3.0 G to 1.5 G daily. He remained on the

rest of the program. Soon he noted that his short term memory was failing

him again. I advised him to stay on the full dose the rest of his life.





4) An antidote against d-LSD,9,10 and against adrenochrome. [5]





5) Alcoholism.





Bill W. conducted the first clinical trial of the use of nicotinic for

treating members of Alcoholics Anonymous. [11] He found that 20 out of

thirty subjects were relieved of their anxiety, tension and fatigue in two

months of taking this vitamin, 1 G tid. I found it very useful in treating

patients who were both alcoholic and schizophrenic. The first large trial

was conducted by David Hawkins who reported a better than 90% recovery rate

on about

90 patients. Since then it has been used by many physicians who treat

alcoholics. Dr. Russell Smith in Detroit has reported the largest series of

patients. [12]





Physical

1. Cardiovascular

Of the two major findings made by my research group in Saskatchewan, the

nicotinic acid-cholesterol connection is well known and nicotinic acid is

used worldwide as an economical, effective and safe compound for lowering

cholesterol and elevating high density cholesterol. As a result of my

interest in nicotinic acid, Altschul, Hoffer and Stephen [3] discovered that

this vitamin, given in gram doses per day, lowered cholesterol levels. Since

then it was found it also elevates high density lipoprotein cholesterol thus

bringing the ratio of total over HDL to below 5.





In the National Coronary Study, Canner [2] showed that nicotinic acid

decreased mortality and prolonged life. Between 1966 and 1975, five drugs

used to lower cholesterol levels were compared to placebo in 8341 men, ages

30 to 64, who had suffered a myocardial infarction at least three months

before entering the study. About 6000 were alive at the end of the study.

Nine years later, only niacin had decreased the death rate significantly

from all causes. Mortality decreased 11% and longevity increased by two

years. The death rate from cancer was also decreased.





This was a very fortunate finding because it led to the approval by the FDA

of this vitamin in mega doses for cholesterol problems and opened up the use

of this vitamin in large doses for other conditions as well. This occurred

at a time when the FDA was doing its best not to recognize the value of

megavitamin therapy. Its position has not altered over the past four

decades.





Our finding opened up the second major wave of interest in vitamins. The

first wave started around 1900 when it was shown that these compounds were

very effective in small doses in curing vitamin deficiency diseases and in

preventing their occurrence. This was the preventive phase of vitamin use.

The second wave recognized that they have therapeutic properties not

directly related to vitamin deficiency diseases but may have to be used in

large doses. This was the second or present wave wherein vitamins are used

in therapy for more than deficiency diseases. Our discovery that nicotinic

acid was an hypocholesterolemic compound is credited as the first paper to

initiate the second wave and paved the way for orthomolecular medicine which

came along several years later.





2. Arthritis

I first observed the beneficial effects of vitamin B-3 in 1953 and 1954. I

was then exploring the potential benefits and side effects from this

vitamin. Several of the patients who were given this vitamin would report

after several months that their arthritis was better. At first this was a

surprise since in the psychiatric history I had taken I had not asked about

joint pain. This report of improvement happened so often I could not ignore

it. A few years later I discovered that Prof. W. Kaufman had studied the use

of this vitamin for the arthritides before 1950 and had published two books

describing his remarkable results. [13] Since that time this vitamin has

been a very important component of the orthomolecular regimen for treating

arthritis.





The following case illustrates both the response which can occur and the

complexity of the orthomolecular regimen. Patients who are early into their

arthritis respond much more effectively and are not left with residual

disability.





K.V. came to my office April 15, 1982. She was in a wheelchair pushed by her

husband. He was exhausted, depressed, and she was one of the sickest

patients I have ever seen. She weighed under 90 pounds. She sat in the chair

on her ankles which were crossed beneath her body because she was not able

to straighten them out. Her arms were held in front of her, close to her

body, and her fingers were permanently deformed and claw-like. She told me

she had been deeply depressed for many years because of the severe pain and

her major impairment. As she was being wheeled into my office I saw how ill

she was and immediately concluded there was nothing I could do for her, and

had to decide how I could let her know without sending her even deeper into

despair. However I changed my mind when she suddenly said, "Dr. Hoffer, I

know no one can ever cure me but if you could only help me with my pain. The

pain in my back is unbearable. I just want to get rid of the pain in my

back." I realized then she had a lot of determination and inner strength and

that it was worthwhile to try and help her.





She began to suffer from severe pain in her joints in 1952. In 1957 it was

diagnosed as arthritis. Until 1962 her condition fluctuated and then she had

to go into a wheelchair some part of the day. She was still able to walk

although not for long until 1967. In 1969 she depended on the wheelchair

most of the time, and by 1973 she was there permanently. For awhile she was

able to propel herself with her feet. After that she was permanently

dependent on help. For the three years before she saw me she had gotten some

home care but most of the care was provided by her husband. He had retired

from his job when I first saw them. He provided the nursing care equivalent

to four nurses on 8 hour shifts including holiday time. He had to carry her

to the bathroom, bathe her, cook and feed her. He was as exhausted as she

was but he was able to carry on.





She was severely deformed, especially her hands, suffered continuous pain,

worse in her arms, and hips and her back. Her ankles were badly swollen and

she had to wear pressure bandages. Her muscles also were very painful most

of the day. She was able to feed herself and to crochet with her few useful

fingers, but it must have been extremely difficult. She was not able to

write nor type which she used to do with a pencil. A few months earlier she

had been suicidal. On top of this severe pain and discomfort she had no

appetite, was not hungry and a full meal would nauseate her. Her skin was

dry, she had patches of eczema, and she had white areas in her nails.





I advised her to eliminate sugar, potatoes, tomatoes and peppers, (about 10%

of arthritics have allergic reactions to the solanine family of plants). She

was to add niacinamide 500 mg four times daily (following the work of W.

Kaufman), ascorbic acid 500 mg four times daily (as an anti-stress nutrient

and for subclinical scurvy), pyridoxine 250 mg per day (found to have

anti-arthritic properties by Dr. J. Ellis), zinc sulfate 220 mg per day (the

white areas in her nails indicated she was deficient in zinc), flaxseed oil

2 tablespoons and cod liver oil 1 tablespoon per day (her skin condition

indicated she had a deficiency of omega 3 essential fatty acids). The

detailed treatment of arthritis and the references are described in my book.

[14]





One month later a new couple came into my room. Her husband was smiling,

relaxed and cheerful as he pushed his wife in in her chair. She was sitting

with her legs dangling down, smiling as well. I immediately knew that she

was a lot better. I began to ask her about her various symptoms she had had

previously. After a few minutes she impatiently broke in to say, "Dr.

Hoffer, the pain in my back is all gone." She no longer bled from her bowel,

she no longer bruised all over her body, she was more comfortable, the pain

in her back was easily controlled with aspirin and was gone from her hips,

(it had not helped before). She was cheerful and laughed in my office. Her

heart was regular at last. I added inositol niacinate 500 mg four times

daily to her program.





She came back June 17, 1982, and had improved even more. She was able to

pull herself up from the prone position on her bed for the first time in 15

years, and she was free of depression. I increased her ascorbic acid to 1

gram four times daily and added vitamin E 800 IU. Because she had shown such

dramatic improvement I advised her she need no longer come to see me.





September 1, 1982, she called me on the telephone. I asked her how she was

getting along. She said she was making even more progress. I then asked her

how had she been able to get to the phone. She replied she was able to get

around alone in her chair. Then she added she had not called for herself but

for her husband. He had been suffering from a cold for a few days, she was

nursing him, and she wanted some advice for him.





After another visit October 28, 1983, I wrote to her doctor "Today Mrs. K.V.

reported she had stayed on the whole vitamin program very rigorously for 18

months, but since that time had slacked off somewhat. She is regaining a lot

of her muscle strength, can now sit in her wheelchair without difficulty,

can also wheel herself around in her wheelchair but, of course, can not do

anything useful with her hands because her fingers are so awful. She would

like to become more independent and perhaps could do so if something could

be done about her fingers and also about her hip. I am delighted she has

arranged to see a plastic surgeon to see if something can be done to get her

hand mobilized once more. I have asked her to continue with the vitamins but

because she had difficulty taking so many pills she will take a preparation

called Multijet which is available from Portland and contains all the

vitamins and minerals and can be dissolved in juice. She will also take

inositol niacinate 3 grams daily."





I saw her again March 24, 1988. About 4 of her vertebra had collapsed and

she was suffering more pain which was alleviated by Darvon. It had not been

possible to treat her hands surgically. She had been able to eat by herself

until six months before this last visit. She had been taking small amounts

of vitamins. She was able to use a motorized chair. She had been depressed.

I wrote to her doctor, "She had gone off the total vitamin program about two

or three years ago. It is very difficult for her to swallow and I can

understand her reluctance to carry on with this. I have therefore suggested

that she take a minimal program which would include inositol niacinate 3

grams daily, ascorbic acid 1 gram three times, linseed oil 2 capsules and

cod liver oil 2 capsules. Her spirits are good and I think she is coming

along considering the severe deterioration of her body as a result of the

arthritis over the past few decades." She was last seen by her doctor in the

fall of 1989.





Her husband was referred. I saw him May 18, 1982. He complained of headaches

and a sense of pressure about his head present for three years. This

followed a series of light strokes. I advised him to take niacin 3 grams

daily plus other vitamins including vitamin C. By September 1983 he was well

and when seen last March 24, 1988 was still normal.





3. Juvenile Diabetes

Dr. Robert Elliot, Professor of Child Health Research at University of

Auckland Medical School is testing 40,000 five-year old children for the

presence of specific antibodies that indicate diabetes will develop. Those

who have the antibodies will be given nicotinamide. This will prevent the

development of diabetes in most the children who are vulnerable. According

to the Rotarian for March 1993 this project began 8 years ago and has 3200

relatives in the study. Of these, 182 had antibodies and 76 were given

nicotinamide. Only 5 have become diabetic compared to 37 that would have

been expected. Since 1988 over 20,100 school children have been tested. None

have become diabetic compared to 47 from the untested comparable group. A

similar study is underway in London, Ontario.





4. Cancer

Recent findings have shown that vitamin B-3 does have anti-cancer

properties. This was discussed at a meeting in Texas in 1987, Jacobson and

Jacobson. [15] The topic of this international conference was "Niacin,

Nutrition, ADP-Ribosylation and Cancer," and was the 8th conference of this

series.





Niacin, niacinamide and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) are

interconvertable via a pyridine nucleotide cycle. NAD, the coenzyme, is

hydrolyzed or split into niacinamide and adenosine dinucleotide phosphate

(ADP-ribose). Niacinamide is converted into niacin, which in turn is once

more built into NAD. The enzyme which splits ADP is known as poly

(ADP-ribose) polymerase, or poly (ADP) synthetase, or poly (ADP-ribose)

transferase. Poly (ADP-ribose) polymerase is activated when strands of

deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) are broken. The enzyme transfers NAD to the

ADP-ribose polymer, binding it onto a number of proteins. The poly

(ADP-ribose) activated by DNA breaks helps repair the breaks by unwinding

the nucleosomal structure of damaged chromatids. It also may increase the

activity of DNA ligase. This enzyme cuts damaged ends off strands of DNA and

increases the cell's capacity to repair itself. Damage caused by any

carcinogenic factor, radiation, chemicals, is thus to a degree neutralized

or counteracted.





Jacobson and Jacobson, conference organizers, hypothesized that niacin

prevents cancer. They treated two groups of human cells with carcinogens.

The group given adequate niacin developed tumors at a rate only 10% of the

rate in the group deficient in niacin. Dr. M. Jacobson is quoted as saying,

"We know that diet is a major risk factor, that diet has both beneficial and

detrimental components. What we cannot assess at this point is the optimal

amount of niacin in the diet... The fact that we don't have pellagra does

not mean we are getting enough niacin to confer resistance to cancer." About

20 mg per day of niacin will prevent pellagra in people who are not chronic

pellagrins. The latter may require 25 times as much niacin to remain free of

pellagra.





Vitamin B-3 may increase the therapeutic efficacy of anti-cancer treatment.

In mice, niacinamide increased the toxicity of irradiation against tumors.

The combination of normobaric carbogen with nicotinamide could be an

effective method of enhancing tumor radiosensitivity in clinical

radiotherapy where hypoxia limits the outcome of treatment. Chaplin, Horsman

and Aoki16 found that nicotinamide was the best drug for increasing

radiosensitivity compared to a series of analogues. The vitamin worked

because it enhanced blood flow to the tumor. Nicotinamide also enhanced the

effect of chemotherapy. They suggested that niacin may offer some

cardioprotection during long-term adriamycin chemotherapy.





Further evidence that vitamin B-3 is involved in cancer is the report by

Nakagawa, Miyazaki, Okui, Kato, Moriyama and Fujimura [17] that in animals

there is a direct relationship between the activity of nicotinamide methyl

transferase and the presence of cancer. Measuring the amount of N-methyl

nicotinamide was used to measure the activity of the enzyme. In other words,

in animals with cancer there is increased destruction of nicotinamide, thus

making less available for the pyridine nucleotide cycle. This finding

applied to all tumors except the solid tumors, Lewis lung carcinoma and

melanoma B-16.





Gerson [18] treated a series of cancer patients with special diets and with

some nutrients including niacin 50 mg 8 to 10 times per day, dicalcium

phosphate with vitamin D, vitamins A and D, and liver injections. He found

that all the cancer cases were benefited in that they became healthier and

in many cases the tumors regressed. In a subsequent report Gerson elaborated

on his diet. He now emphasized a high potassium over sodium diet, ascorbic

acid, niacin, brewers yeast and lugols iodine. Right after the war there was

no ready supply of vitamins as there is today. I would consider the use of

these nutrients in combination very original and enterprising. Dr. Gerson

was the first physician to emphasize the use of multivitamins and some

multiminerals. More details are

in Hoffer. [19]





Additional evidence that vitamin B-3 is therapeutic for cancer arises from

the National Coronary Study, Canner. [2]





5. Concentration Camp Survivors

In 1960 I planned to study the effect of nicotinic acid on a large number of

aging people living in a sheltered home. A new one had been built. I

approached the director of this home, Mr. George Porteous. I arranged to

meet him and told him what I would like to do and why. I gave him an outline

of its properties, its side effects and why I thought it might be helpful.

Mr. Porteous agreed and we started this investigation. A short while after

my first contact Mr. Porteous came to my office at University Hospital. He

wanted to take nicotinic acid himself, he told me, so that he could discuss

the reaction more intelligently with people living in his institution. He

wanted to know if it would be safe to do so.





That fall he came again to talk to me and this time he said he wanted to

tell me what had happened to him. Then I discovered he had been with the

Canadian troops who had sailed to Hong Kong in 1940, had been promptly

captured by the Japanese and had survived 44 months in one of their

notorious prisoner of war camps.





Twenty-five percent of the Canadian soldiers died in these camps. They

suffered from severe malnutrition from starvation and nutrient deficiency.

They suffered from beri beri, pellagra, scurvy, infectious diseases, and

brutality from the guards.





Porteous, a physical education instructor, had been fit weighing about 190

pounds when he got there. When he returned home he weighed only 2/3rds of

that. On the way home in a hospital ship the soldiers were fed and given

extra vitamins in the form of rice polishings. There were few vitamins

available then in tablets or capsules. He seemingly recovered but had

remained very ill. He suffered from both psychological and physical

symptoms. He was anxious, fearful and slightly paranoid. Thus, he could

never be comfortable sitting in a room unless he sat facing the door. This

must have arisen from the fear of the guards. Physically he had severe

arthritis. He could not raise his arms above his shoulders. He suffered from

heat and cold sensitivity. In the morning he needed his wife's help in

getting out of bed and to get started for the day. He had severe insomina.

For this he was given barbiturates in the evening and to help awaken him in

the morning, he was given amphetamines.





Later I read the growing literature on the Hong Kong veterans and there is

no doubt they were severely and permanently damaged. They suffered from a

high death rate due to heart disease, crippling arthritis, blindness and a

host of other conditions.





Having outlined his background he then told me that two weeks after he

started to take nicotinic acid, 1 gram after each meal, he was normal. He

was able to raise his arms to their full extension, and he was free of all

the symptoms which had plagued him for so long. When I began to prepare my

report [20] I obtained his Veterans Administration Chart. It came to me in

two cardboard boxes and weighed over ten pounds, but over 95% of it was

accumulated before he started on the vitamin. For the ten years after he

started on the vitamin there was very little additional material. One could

judge the efficacy of the vitamin by weighing the chart paper before and

after he started on it. Porteous remained well as long as he stayed on the

vitamin until his death when he was Lieutenant Governor of Saskatchewan. In

1962, after having been well for two years, he went on a holiday to the

mountains with his son and he forgot to take his nicotinic acid with him. By

the time he returned home almost the entire symptomatology had returned.





Porteous was enthusiastic about nicotinic acid and began to tell all his

friends about it. He told his doctor. His doctor cautioned him that he might

damage his liver. Porteous replied that if it meant he could stay as well as

he was until he died from a liver ailment he would still not go off it. His

doctor became an enthusiast as well and within a few years had started over

300 of his patients on the vitamin. He never saw any examples of liver

disease from nicotinic acid.





I have treated over 20 prisoners from Japanese camps and from European

concentration camps since then with equally good results. I estimated that

one year in these camps was equivalent to 4 years of aging, i.e. four years

in camp would age a prisoner the equivalent of 16 years of normal living.





George Porteous wanted every prisoner of war from the eastern camps treated

as he had been. He was not successful in persuading the Government of Canada

that nicotinic acid would be very helpful so he turned to fellow prisoners,

both in Canada (Hong Kong Veterans) and to American Ex-Prisoners of War.

These American veterans suffered just as much as had the Canadian soldiers

since they were treated in exactly the same abysmal way. The ones who

started on the vitamin showed the same response. Recently one of these

soldiers, a retired officer, wrote to me after being on nicotinic acid 20

years that he felt great, owed it to the vitamin and that when his arteries

were examined during a simple operation they were completely normal. He

wrote, "About two years ago, I was hit, was bleeding down the neck. The MDs

took the opportunity to repair me. They said the arteries under the ears

look like they had never been used."





There is an important lesson from the experiences of these veterans and

their response to megadoses of nicotinic acid. This is that every human

exposed to severe stress and malnutrition for a long enough period of time

will develop a permanent need for large amounts of this vitamin and perhaps

for several others.





This is happening on a large scale in Africa where the combination of

starvation, malnutrition and brutality is reproducing the conditions

suffered by the veterans. Those who survive will be permanently damaged

biochemically, and will remain a burden to themselves and to the community

where they live. Will society have the good sense to help them recover by

making this vitamin available to them in optimum doses?





Doses

The optimum dose range is not as wide as it is for ascorbic acid, but it is

wide enough to require different recommendations for different classes of

diseases. As is always the case with nutrients, each individual must

determine their own optimum level. With nicotinic acid this is done by

increasing the dose until the flush (vasodilation) is gone, or is so slight

it is not a problem.





One can start with as low a dose as 100 mg taken three times each day after

meals and gradually increase it. I usually start with 500 mg each dose and

often will start with 1 gram per dose especially for cases of arthritis, for

schizophrenics, for alcoholics and for a few elderly patients. However, with

elderly patients it is better to start small and work it up slowly.





No person should be given nicotinic acid without explaining to them that

they will have a flush which will vary in intensity from none to very

severe. If this is explained carefully, and if they are told that in time

the flush will not be a problem, they will not mind. The flush may remain

too intense for a few patients and the nicotinic acid may have to be

replaced by a slow release preparation or by some of the esters, for

example, inositol niacinate. The latter is a very good preparation with very

little flush and most find it very acceptable even when they were not able

to accept the nicotinic acid itself. It is rather expensive but with

quantity production the price might come down.





The flush starts in the forehead with a warning tingle. Then it intensifies.

The rate of the development of the flush depends upon so many factors it is

impossible to predict what course it will follow.





The following factors decrease the intensity of the flush: a cold meal,

taking it after a meal, taking aspirin before, using an antihistamine in

advance.





The following factors make the flush more intense: a hot meal, a hot drink,

an empty stomach, chewing the tablets and the rate at which the tablets

break down in liquid.





From the forehead and face the flush travels down the rest of the body,

usually stopping somewhere in the chest but may extend to the toes. With

continued use the flush gradually recedes and eventually may be only a

tingling sensation in the forehead. If the person stops taking the vitamin

for a day or more the sequence of flushing will be re-experienced. Some

people never do flush and a few only begin to flush after several years of

taking the vitamin. With nicotinamide there should be no flushing but I have

found that about 2% will flush. This may be due to rapid conversion of the

nicotinamide to nicotinic acid in the body.





When the dose is too high for both forms of the vitamin the patients will

suffer from nausea at first, and then if the dose is not reduced it will

lead to vomiting. These side effects may be used to determine what is the

optimum dose. When they do occur the dose is reduced until it is just below

the nausea level. With children the first indication may be loss of

appetite. If this does occur the vitamin must be stopped for a few days and

then may be resumed at a lower level. Very few can take more than 6 grams

per day of the nicotinamide. With nicotinic acid it is possible to go much

higher. Many schizophrenics have taken up to 30 grams per day with no

difficulty. The dose will alter over time and if on a dose where there were

no problems, they may develop in time. Usually this indicates that the

patient is getting better and does not need as much. I have divided all

patients who might benefit from vitamin B-3 into the following categories.





Category 1. These are people who are well or nearly well, and have no

obvious disease. They are interested in maintaining their good health or in

improving it. They may be under increased stress. The optimum dose range

varies between 0.5 to 3 grams daily. The same doses apply to nicotinamide.





Category 2. Everyone under physiological stress, such as pregnancy and

lactation, suffering from acute illness such as the common cold or flu, or

other diseases that do not threaten death. All the psychiatric syndromes are

included in this group including the schizophrenias and the senile states.

It also includes the very large group of people with high blood cholesterol

levels or low HDL when it is desired to restore these blood values to

normal. The dose range is 1 gram to 10 grams daily. For nicotinamide the

range is 1 1/2 g to 6 g.





Nicotinamide does not affect cholesterol levels.





Side Effects

Here are Dr. John Marks' conclusions. [21]





"A tingling or flushing sensation in the skin after relatively large doses

(in excess of 75 mg) of nicotinic acid is a rather common phenomenon. It is

the result of dilation of the blood vessels that is one of the natural

actions of nicotinic acid and one for which it is used therapeutically.

Whether this should therefore be regarded as a true adverse reaction is a

moot point. The reaction clears regularly after about 20 minutes and is not

harmful to the individual. It is very rare for this reaction to occur at

less than three times the RDA, even in very sensitive individuals. In most

people much larger quantities are required. The related substance

nicotinamide only very rarely produces this reaction and in consequence this

is the form generally used for vitamin supplementation.





"Doses of 200 mg to 10 g daily of the acid have been used therapeutically to

lower blood cholesterol levels under medical control for periods of up to 10

years or more and though some reactions have occurred at these very high

dosages, they have rapidly responded to cessation of therapy, and have often

cleared even when therapy has been continued.





"In isolated cases, transient liver disorders, rashes, dry skin and

excessive pigmentation have been seen. The tolerance to glucose has been

reduced in diabetics and patients with peptic ulcers have experienced

increased pain. No serious reaction have been reported however even in these

high doses. The available evidence suggests that 10 times the RDA is safe

(about 100 mg)."





Dr. Marks is cautious about recommending that doses of 100 mg are safe. In

my opinion, based upon 40 years of experience with this vitamin the dose

ranges I have recommended above are safe. However with the higher doses

medical supervision is necessary.





Jaundice is very rare. Fewer that ten cases have been reported in the

medical literature. I have seen none in ten years. When jaundice dose occur

it is usually an obstructive type and clears when the vitamin is

discontinued. I have been able to get schizophrenic patients back on

nicotinic acid after the jaundice cleared and it did not recur.





Four serious cases have been reported, all involving a sustained release

preparation. Mullin, Greenson & Mitchell (1989) [22] reported that a 44

year-old man was treated with crystalline nicotinic acid, 6 grams daily, and

after 16 months was normal. He then began to take a sustained-release

preparation, same dose. Within three days he developed nausea, vomiting,

abdominal pain, dark urine. He had severe hepatic failure and required a

liver transplant. Henkin, Johnson & Segrest found three patients who

developed hepatitis with sustained release nicotinic acid. When this was

replaced with crystalline nicotinic acid there was no recurrent liver

damage. [23]





Since jaundice in people who have not been taking nicotinic acid is fairly

common it is possible there is a random association. The liver function

tests may indicate there is a problem when in fact there is not. Nicotinic

acid should be stopped for five days before the liver function tests are

given. One patient who had no problem with nicotinic acid for lowering

cholesterol switched to the slow release preparations and became ill. When

he resumed the original nicotinic acid he was well again with no further

evidence of liver dysfunction. I have not seen any cases reported anywhere

else. I have described much more fully the side effects of this vitamin

elsewhere. [24]





Inositol hexaniacinate is an ester of inositol and nicotinic acid. Each

inositol molecule contains six nicotinic acid molecules. This ester is

broken down slowly in the body. It is as effective as nicotinic acid and is

almost free of side effects. There is very little flushing, gastrointestinal

distress and other uncommon side effects. Inositol, considered one of the

lesser important B vitamins, does have a function in the body as a messenger

molecule and may add something to the therapeutic properties of the

nicotinic acid.





Conclusion

Vitamin B-3 is a very effective nutrient in treating a large number of

psychiatric and medical diseases but its beneficial effect is enhanced when

the rest of the orthomolecular program is included. The combination of

vitamin B-3 and the antioxidant nutrients is a great anti-stress program.





Reprinted with the permission of the author:

Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D.

Suite 3 - 2727 Quadra St

Victoria, British Columbia V8T 4E5 Canada





References

1. Horwitt MK: Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease. Fifth Ed. RS Goodhart

and ME Shils. Lea & Febiger, Phil. 1974.





2. Canner PL, Berge KG, Wenger NK, Stamler J, Friedman L, Prineas RJ &

Freidewald W: Fifteen year mortality Coronary Drug Project; patients long

term benefit with niacin. American Coll Cardiology 8:1245-1255, 1986.





3. Altschul R, Hoffer A & Stephen JD: Influence of Nicotinic Acid on Serum

Cholesterol in Man. Arch Biochem Biophys 54:558-559, 1955.





4. Hoffer A: The Schizophrenia, Stress and Adrenochrome Hypothesis. In

Press, 1995.





5. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Medicine for Physicians. Keats Pub, New Canaan,

CT, 1989.





6. Hoffer A: The treatment of schizophrenia. In Press 1995.





7. Hoffer A: The Development of Orthomolecular Medicine. In Press, 1995.





8. Hoffer A: Niacin Therapy in Psychiatry. C. C. Thomas, Springfield, IL,

1962.





Hoffer A & Osmond H: New Hope For Alcoholics, University Books, New York,

1966. Written by Fannie Kahan.





Hoffer A & Walker M: Nutrients to Age Without Senility. Keats Pub Inc, New

Canaan, CT, 1980.





Hoffer A & Walker M: Smart Nutrients. A Guide to Nutrients That Can Prevent

and Reverse Senility. Avery Publishing Group, Garden City Park, New York,

1994.





9. Agnew N & Hoffer A: Nicotinic Acid Modified Lysergic Acid Diethylamide

Psychosis. J Ment Science 101:12-27, 1955.





10. Ivanova RA, Milstein GT, Smirnova LS & Fantchenko ND: The Influence of

Nicotinic Acid on an Experimental Psychosis Produced by LSD 25. Journal of

Neuropathology and Psychiatry of CC Korsakoff 64:1172-1176, 1964. In

Russian. Translated by Dr. T.E. Weckowicz.





11. Wilson B: The Vitamin B-3 Therapy: The First Communication to A.A.'s

Physicians and A Second Communication to A.A.'s Physicians, 1967 and 1968.





12. Smith RF: A five year field trial of massive nicotinic acid therapy of

alcoholics in Michigan. Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry 3:327-331,

1974.





Smith RF: Status report concerning the use of megadose nicotinic acid in

alcoholics. Journal of Orthomolecular Psychiatry 7:52-55, 1978.





13. Kaufman W: Common Forms of Niacinamide Deficiency Disease: Aniacin

Amidosis. Yale University Press, New Haven, CT, 1943.





Kaufman W: The Common Form of Joint Dysfunction: Its Incidence and

Treatment. E.L. Hildreth and Co., Brattelboro, VT, 1949.





14. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Medicine For Physicians, Keats Pub, New Canaan,

CT, 1989.





15. Jacobson M & Jacobson E: Niacin, nutrition, ADP-ribosylation and cancer.

The 8th International Symposium on ADP- Ribosylation, Texas College of

Osteopathic Medicine, Fort Worth, TX, 1987.





Titus K: Scientists link niacin and cancer prevention. The D.O. 28:93-97,

1987.





Hostetler D: Jacobsons put broad strokes in the niacin/cancer picture. The

D.O. 28:103-104, 1987.





16. Chaplin DJ, Horsman MP & Aoki DS: Nicotinamide, Fluosol DA and Carbogen:

a strategy to reoxygenate acutely and chronically hypoxic cells in vivo.

British Journal of Cancer 63:109-113, 1990.





17. Nakagawa K, Miyazaka M, Okui K, Kato N, Moriyama Y & Fujimura S:

N1-methylnicotinamide level in the blood after nicotinamide loading as

further evidence for malignant tumor burden. Jap. J. Cancer Research

82:277-1283, 1991.





18. Gerson M: Dietary considerations in malignant neoplastic disease. A

prelimary report. The Review of Gastroenterology 12:419-425, 1945.





Gerson M: Effects of a combined dietary regime on patients with malignant

tumors. Experimental Medicine and Surgery 7:299-317, 1949.





19. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Oncology. In, Adjuvant Nutrition in Cancer

Treatment, Ed. P. Quillin & R. M. Williams. 1992 Symposium Proceedings,

Sponsored by Cancer Treatment Research Foundation and American College of

Nutrition. Cancer Treatment Research Foundation, 3455 Salt Creek Lane, Suite

200, Arlington Heights, IL 60005-1090, 331-362, 1994.





20. Hoffer A: Hong Kong Veterans Study. J Orthomolecular Psychiatry 3:34-36,

1974.





21. Marks J: Vitamin Safety. Vitamin Information Status Paper, F. Hoffman La

Roche & Co., Basle, 1989.





22. Mullin GE, Greenson JK & Mitchell MC: Fulminant hepatic failure after

ingestion of sustained-release nicotinic acid. Ann Internal Medicine

111:253-255, 1989.





23. Henkin Y, Johnson KC & Segrest JP: Rechallenge with crystalline niacin

after drug-induced hepatitis from sustained-release niacin. J. American

Medical Assn. 264:241-243, 1990.





24. Hoffer A: Niacin Therapy in Psychiatry. C. C. Thomas, Springfield, IL,

1962.





Hoffer A: Safety, Side Effects and Relative Lack of Toxicity of Nicotinic

acid and Nicotinamide. Schizophrenia 1:78-87, 1969.





Hoffer A: Vitamin B-3 (Niacin) Update. New Roles For a Key Nutrient in

Diabetes, Cancer, Heart Disease and Other Major Health Problems. Keats Pub,

Inc., New Canaan, CT, 1990.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


0 -1 0 0
5641 Glenn F. Chesnut
Re: State liquor agency mentioned in Doctor Bob''s Nightmare State liquor agency mentioned in Doctor Bob''s Nightmare 4/18/2009 2:39:00 PM


In message #5631



http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5631



there are two key paragraphs in the newspaper article which is cited there from

the June 18, 1902 New York Times:



"The Selectmen of each town appoint a town agent for the dispensing of liquors

upon prescription, and most of these agents, who take half the profits, vend

vile liquor and break the law by handing it out to any citizen whom they know as

a neighbor, be he a drunkard or not, without the formality of asking to see his

prescription."



"'Blind pigs' abound, and in the large towns outnumber any other single class of

places of business. Bogus drug stores with barrooms in the rear are a notable

feature of the appointments of these towns and cities. Drinking, therefore, goes

on in Vermont as if there were no law against it; its extent is augmented by the

secrecy and risk attached to it, but little or none of the liquor sold is fit to

drink, and every drink purchased is a toast to disorder and a violation of law."



It appears to me that the agents at the state liquor agencies whom Dr. Bob was

referring to, were only allowed to dispense alcoholic beverages to people who

had a doctor's prescription for it.



When I was a child, there were still country doctors who would tell people with

heart conditions to drink a sip of whiskey every once in a while over the course

of the day, to "calm their nerves" and "help their hearts." There were parts of

India during the 1960's where alcoholic beverages were illegal unless you had a

certificate from the physician certifying that you were an alcoholic! A friend

from India said that there were a large number of people back home who had

talked a friendly physician into diagnosing them as alcoholics, even though they

weren't.



Tommy H. has found a prescription for whiskey on eBay, a prescription written by

a physician, dated July 31, 1928, written for a woman in Philadelphia,

Pennsylvania:



http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=765521&image=251877337&im\

ages=251877337,251877379,251877417&formats=0,0,0&format=0




So it sounds like you had to have a doctor's prescription for the alcohol in

Vermont at that period -- OR -- and this "or" was the operant word -- have a

friendly local Vermont liquor agent who would wink his eye and write down on his

books that you were an alcoholic who was starting to go into the DT's, so you

could get a pint of whiskey from him.



Are there any New England historians who know whether this guess on my part

might be correct?



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)







--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "aadavidi" <aadavidi@...> wrote:

>

> In "DOCTOR BOB'S NIGHTMARE" is the following

> statement (Big Book page 171):

>

> "No beer or liquor was sold in the neighborhood, except at the State liquor

agency where perhaps one might procure a pint if he could convince the agent

that he really needed it. Without this proof the expectant purchaser would be

forced to depart empty handed with none of what I later came to believe was the

great panacea for all human ills. Men who had liquor shipped in from Boston or

New York by express were looked upon with great distrust and disfavor by most of

the good townspeople."

>

> Can anyone offer a clear description of the function of the Vermont State

liquor agency in the late 1800's and why a person couldn't purchase all he or

she wanted?

>

> [Dr. Bob was born August 8, 1879 in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, where he was

raised. He graduated from Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, in 1902.]

>


0 -1 0 0
5642 kentedavis@aol.com
Book signed by Dr Bob and Bill W Book signed by Dr Bob and Bill W 4/19/2009 9:01:00 AM


I have heard of a 12th printing of the first

edition that was signed by both Dr Bob (his

whole name) and Bill Wilson (his whole name).

I was wondering if it was a one of a kind.

There were not that many times that Bill and

Bob were together with a book to sign,

especially signing their whole names.



Could this have been signed at the 1950

International Convention in 1950? This book

was also signed by Lois and Father Pfau.



Were there other times that Bill and Bob were

together that they might have signed a book?

Does anyone know of other occasions that when

Bill and Bob were together after the book was

published in 1939, other than the International

Convention in 1950?



Has anyone seen other books that were signed

by both Bill and Bob?



Kent D. 8/8/88


0 -1 0 0
5643 Stephen Aberle
Red Bank, New Jersey, AA group Red Bank, New Jersey, AA group 4/19/2009 3:38:00 PM


I am trying to trace the founding (or founders)

of the Red Bank Monday night group in Monmouth

County, New Jersey.



I had thought incorrectly that we were the 2nd

oldest group in New Jersey -- we will celebrate

the group's 68th anniversary in August. That

implies a founding date of August 1941.



But I have copies of older meeting books from

Dec 1941 and Sept 1942, and Red Bank is not

listed.



I know AA in NJ started at the 1st meeting in

Montclair on May 14th, 1939 and then went to

South Orange at the home of Herb Debevoise,

continuing what had been started in Montclair.



Some of the earliest AA members in Red Bank

include Bart Grimsley, Allen Gallagher, and

Millie B.



Any and all help appreciated! ... Thanx


0 -1 0 0
5644 loranarcher
Pathways to abstinence: positive impact of A.A. Pathways to abstinence: positive impact of A.A. 4/21/2009 12:52:00 PM


I have posted the second Knol of my analysis

of 1992 Americans, diagnosed as alcohol

abuse/dependence,



1) who never attended AA,



2) AA drop outs and



3) AA continued.



This analysis is of abstinence outcome.



The Knol is PATHWAYS TO ABSTINENCE: IMPACT

OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS



http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/pathways-to-abstinence-impact-of/33nxpux3i\

mfog/6




Key findings were:



-The results of the present study support the

efficacy of the fellowship of Alcoholics

Anonymous to promote abstinence



-In 1992 Americans with alcohol use disorders

who continued to attend AA were more likely

to achieve abstinence (64%) than those who

dropped out of AA (37%) or those who never

attended AA (16%)



-Abstinence recovery status varies as a function

of increasing age and level of severity of

alcohol symptoms.



-The findings suggest that a substantial portion

of the "AA drop outs" attain sobriety or

abstinence after a period of AA membership and

maintain their abstinence without AA



-The unmet need for AA referral is concentrated

in the younger age groups, 35% in the 18-29

years group and 30% in the 30-39 years age group



- - - -



From the moderator



Important data from one of our best American

alcoholism researchers. Note especially:



64% of those who continue in A.A.

continue to stay sober.



Of those who attend A.A. for a while and

get sober there, but then stop attending

meetings. only 37% remain sober.



A.A. is not the only way to get sober and

stay sober, but only 16% of those who never

attended A.A. get sober and stay sober

(these people presumbably do that by going

to church instead, by act of sheer will

power, or whatever).



So what is the best way of getting sober, if

you are an alcoholic? Going to A.A. meetings.



What is the best way to maximize your chances

of staying sober, if you got sober in A.A.?

Continuing to go to A.A. meetings.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5645 katiebartlett79
DR Silkworth DR Silkworth 4/21/2009 11:34:00 AM


Hi everyone,



Katie from Big Book Study: The Way Out



Can anyone tell me why Dr. Silkworth become

intrested in the alcohol field?



Many thanks.


0 -1 0 0
5646 Bill Lash
A.A.''s BB Celebrates 70 Years A.A.''s BB Celebrates 70 Years 4/22/2009 8:18:00 AM


A.A.'s 'Big Book' celebrates 70 years

Printed in 58 languages, volume has been credited with saving lives of

millions of people worldwide

By Jim Carney (Akron Beacon Journal staff writer)

Jim Carney can be reached at 330-996-3576 or jcarney@thebeaconjournal.com.

Find this article at: http://www.ohio.com/news/43240782.html

Published on Sunday, Apr 19, 2009





Gail L.'s hands rest on the old red book on a table in front of her.



The book, she tells you, saved her life and gave her "a life worth saving."



It is "God's story of his love for the alcoholic," she says.



Seven decades ago this month, Alcoholics Anonymous, also called the Big

Book, was published.



For 70 years it has helped millions of people worldwide support each other

while protecting their identity — thus the avoidance of last names.



Sometime this year, it is expected that the 30 millionth copy will be sold.



And as Gail, archivist at the Akron Alcoholics Anonymous office, sits over a

first edition of the book known and cherished by recovering people since its

publication in April 1939, she talks of the power of its words.



"It is a design for living that really works," said Gail, 60, sober for 31

years and archivist in Akron since 1983.



Alcoholics Anonymous was founded in Akron on June 10, 1935. Next year will

be the organization's 75th anniversary.



Every year in June, Akron hosts Founders Day and more than 12,000 people

from around the world converge to remember the founding of the A.A.

movement. Founders Day events this

year are June 12-14.



While A.A. does not keep formal membership lists, the group estimates there

are nearly 2 million members worldwide who gather in nearly 115,000 groups,

including about 1.2 million members in the United States who meet in nearly

54,000 groups.



The first-edition book, one of 4,800 first printings, is kept in a safe at

A.A.'s office at 775 N. Main St.



The rare copy was signed June 10, 1948, by A.A. co-founders Dr. Robert Smith

of Akron and New York stockbroker Bill Wilson.



An Akron member donated the book.



Also kept in the safe is Dr. Bob's copy of the manuscript.



The book has been printed in 58 languages, according to a spokeswoman at the

A.A. General Services offices in New York City.



Gail said the book is really a history text. She said Wilson wrote most of

the first 164 pages, which are still in the most current edition.



Included on those pages are the 12 steps that have become the basis of the

A.A. program.



Following the first 164 pages are individual stories, three-fifths of them

Akron people who told of their ''strength, experience and hope'' and their

recovery to sobriety through A.A., she said.



Many of the 18 personal stories included in the first edition were written

by a sober, former newspaper reporter named Jim, an A.A. publication said.

He, along with Smith, sought out stories of local people with good sobriety

records.



The newspaperman's story was included as well in a chapter titled The News

Hawk.



The fourth edition, which came out in 2001, includes two stories of Akron

people, Gail said.



Gift from God



The Rev. Samuel Ciccolini, executive director of Interval Brotherhood Home,

a drug and alcohol treatment facility in Coventry Township, said the book,

studied by those in recovery, is nothing short of a miracle.



"To me, the Big Book is an inspiration of God," said Ciccolini, 66, known to

many as Father Sam.



IBH will celebrate its 40th anniversary in 2010.



"You see its enduring, life-saving value and you know it had to be more than

two recovering men that were that brilliant that put something together. It

had to be in God's hands," he said.



Ciccolini said he recalls two alcoholics coming to talk to his class when he

was a student at Akron's St. Peter's School in the mid-1950s.



The two recovering men each carried a copy of the Big Book, he said.

Ciccolini recalls each man holding it up and saying, "This book saved our

lives."



Later, when he was a theology student, he said he read the book.



"What it has done to save lives is immeasurable," Ciccolini said.



The foreword to the first edition begins:



"'We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who

have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show

other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this

book."



The book originally sold for $3.50. It goes for $6 now and will increase to

$8 on July 1.



Akronite Scott D., 61, a member of A.A. for a dozen years, has taken part in

a men's Big Book study group since then.



He said the group meets once a week and goes over the first 164 pages,

including the chapter Dr. Bob's Nightmare that tells Smith's story.



"We read the book and discuss it," he said.



Scott said a passage that "registers in my head is we have but a daily

reprieve based on the maintenance of our spiritual condition."



Gail said when she started going to A.A. meetings, she began reading right

away.



"I fell in love with the book," she said.



Gail said that when the book was written, the Akron A.A. community pushed to

call it The Way Out and the New York group thought it should be called

simply Alcoholics Anonymous.



The New York group won that argument.


0 -1 0 0
5647 CloydG
Re: Dr. Silkworth Dr. Silkworth 4/21/2009 10:15:00 PM


Here is a link that may be helpful:



http://aabibliography.com/historyofaa/silkworth/silkworth.htm



Clyde, alcoholic





----- Original Message -----

From: katiebartlett79

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] DR Silkworth



Can anyone tell me why Dr. Silkworth become

interested in the alcohol field?


0 -1 0 0
5648 diazeztone
Are reproduction Grapevines available? Are reproduction Grapevines available? 4/23/2009 2:35:00 PM


A lady wrote me from my website wanting a June 1940 Grapevine.



Does anybody know where to obtain well-done reproductions??



I include her message here:



Greetings from another AA in Kentucky .... You came up on Google. I'm looking

for a 1949 Grapevine, June if possible, for yet another AA who is turning 60

this June, born in 1949. Please let me know if you have/know of any ....

Thanks!



Suzanne Warden

suzanne.warden at gmail



ld pierce

aabibliography.com

eztone at hotmail


0 -1 0 0
5649 jaxena77
San Quentin: (1) inmate Ricardo and (2) Bill W.''s speech San Quentin: (1) inmate Ricardo and (2) Bill W.''s speech 4/21/2009 6:54:00 PM


Hello,



(1) I am looking for more background info on the San Quentin inmate Ricardo who

worked with Warden Duffy to set up the prison group there.

Apparently, Ricardo was interviewed by a San Francisco journalist in 1943, and

the interview was published in the San Francisco Call-Bullentin. Does anyone

have this interview?



(2) I am also curious if there is a recording or transcription or description of

the content of Bill Wilson's speech at San Quentin in the 40s.



Thanks!



Jackie


0 -1 0 0
5650 diazeztone
Re: Dr. Silkworth Dr. Silkworth 4/25/2009 12:21:00 PM


Kate, there is a biography of Silkworth you

should seek out:



Silkworth: The Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks,

the Biography of William Duncan Silkworth, M.D.

by Dale Mitchel available at Hazelden



I was looking but I can't find my copy. I hope

I did not lend it out.



LD Pierce

aabibliography.com







--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "CloydG" <cloydg449@...> wrote:

>

> Here is a link that may be helpful:

>

> http://aabibliography.com/historyofaa/silkworth/silkworth.htm

>

> Clyde, alcoholic

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: katiebartlett79

> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] DR Silkworth

>

> Can anyone tell me why Dr. Silkworth become

> interested in the alcohol field?

>


0 -1 0 0
5651 Glenn Chesnut
Photos of the Akron (and Australian) AA oldtimer Jim Scott Photos of the Akron (and Australian) AA oldtimer Jim Scott 4/26/2009 3:14:00 PM


From:  "Gordy" <gordy8@gmail.com>  (gordy8 at gmail.com)



Hi there, Gordy is my name ( Australian AA groups http://www.aa-oztralia.com/ )



I am wondering if any of you have any pics of Jim Scott, he was an Australian

and had a fair bit to do with the editing of the AA Big Book.



< From GFC, the moderator: this is the Jim

< Scott whose story was in the 1st edit. of

< the BB as "Traveler, Editor, Scholar," later

< revised and called "The News Hawk," see

< http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#jims



I am a sponsee of the AA Australia archival officer Ian J. and we have been

looking for photos of Jim Scott, we have one grainy pic of him but nothing else.



He is a very important link to our fellowship in Australia and any information

we can get re Jim would be very gratefully received.



I was hoping you folks might have or know of where we could get a good quality

pic ... plus any info apart from the general run o' the mill stuff that is

around about him.



Thanks very much and keep up the good work



God Bless



Gordy dos 11th of April 1977 

... another grateful recovering alcoholic!



AA OZ Unity Recovery website:  http://www.aa-oztralia.com/ 

AA Southern Cross website:  http://www.southerncrossaa.blogspot.com/ 

Australian AOIG website:  http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aoig/



AA OZ Unity Recovery audio meeting room: 

http://chat.paltalk.com/g2/group/520563537/ 



AA Southern Cross meeting room:  http://chat.paltalk.com/g2/group/1171665356/ 

 


0 -1 0 0
5652 Jim Hoffman
Re: Photos of the Akron (and Australian) AA oldtimer Jim Scott Photos of the Akron (and Australian) AA oldtimer Jim Scott 4/26/2009 10:04:00 PM


Hi there,



This is Maria , I just got a picture of Jim

Scott from Ray G., former Dr. Bob's Home

Archivist. Although this is pretty grainy

I'd be happy to send it to see if it is any

better than the one you have. It is 8 X 11.

Looks to be of the same one that is on:



http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#jims



Contact me directly at

<jhoffma6@tampabay.rr.com>

(jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com)



Maria



----- Original Message -----

From: Glenn Chesnut

To: AAHistoryLovers group



From: "Gordy" <gordy8@gmail.com> (gordy8 at gmail.com)



Hi there, Gordy is my name ( Australian AA groups

http://www.aa-oztralia.com/ )



I am wondering if any of you have any pics of Jim Scott, he was an

Australian and had a fair bit to do with the editing of the AA Big Book.



< From GFC, the moderator: this is the Jim

< Scott whose story was in the 1st edit. of

< the BB as "Traveler, Editor, Scholar," later

< revised and called "The News Hawk," see

< http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#jims



I am a sponsee of the AA Australia archival officer Ian J. and we have

been looking for photos of Jim Scott, we have one grainy pic of him but nothing

else.



He is a very important link to our fellowship in Australia and any

information we can get re Jim would be very gratefully received.



I was hoping you folks might have or know of where we could get a good

quality pic ... plus any info apart from the general run o' the mill stuff that

is around about him.



Thanks very much and keep up the good work



God Bless



Gordy


0 -1 0 0
5653 tsirish1
Whoopee parties Whoopee parties 4/26/2009 4:08:00 PM


Does anyone KNOW the context in which Bill was

referring to "plain ordinary whoopee parties"?

I don't want guesses or theories; I already have

them. I was looking for documented historical

fact. Thanks in advance. Keep the Faith!



BB Tim



- - - -



From the moderator:



One of the most famous Walt Disney cartoon

shorts of the 1930's was called "The Whoopee

Party."



A picture is worth a thousand words, go to

YouTube and watch the cartoon:



Mickey Cartoons — The Whoopee Party (Sept. 17, 1932)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d7zxYsl67I



Also look up whoopee party on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whoopee_Party



GFC


0 -1 0 0
5654 diazeztone
Re: Are reproduction Grapevines available? 1949 not 1940 Are reproduction Grapevines available? 1949 not 1940 4/25/2009 12:16:00 PM


She needs June 1949 not 1940.



Sorry my typo.



LD Pierce



- - - -



Also from: "Keith" <kroloson@mindspring.com>

(kroloson at mindspring.com)



The lady needs a JUNE 1949 year, Suzanne had a typo.


0 -1 0 0
5655 Tom Hickcox
Re: Are reproduction Grapevines available? Are reproduction Grapevines available? 4/24/2009 6:02:00 PM


The A.A. Grapevine did not start publishing

until June 1944 so it is unlikely that anyone

can come up with one from 1940.



I believe the memorial issues on the deaths of

Dr. Bob and Bill W were reprinted and are still

available at private sale. The originals are

scarce and command a fairly high price.



I am not aware of any other reproduced issues.



The complete digital archive of Grapevines going

back to June 1944 is available online:



<http://www.aagrapevine.org/da/>



I find it very handy.



Tommy H in Baton Rouge



- - - -



At 13:35 4/23/2009, diazeztone wrote:



>A lady wrote me from my website wanting a June 1940 Grapevine.

>

>Does anybody know where to obtain well-done reproductions??

>

>I include her message here:

>

>Greetings from another AA in Kentucky .... You came up on

>Google. I'm looking for a 1949 Grapevine, June if possible, for yet

>another AA who is turning 60 this June, born in 1949. Please let me

>know if you have/know of any .... Thanks!

>

>Suzanne Warden

>suzanne.warden at gmail

>

>ld pierce

>aabibliography.com

>eztone at hotmail


0 -1 0 0
5656 nuevenueve@ymail.com
Father Ralph Pfau Father Ralph Pfau 4/27/2009 2:17:00 PM


Hi, good day and 24 happy sobriety hours to

all AA members, good day to non-AA members:



Dears, I´ve been searching what were the

causes Fr. Pfau´s literature was not approved

or included by the conference. Were there

religion causes? Did Father Pfau relapse and

that´s why?



Please show me light.



Thank you pals.



Hugo


0 -1 0 0
5657 James Blair
Re: Are reproduction Grapevines available? Are reproduction Grapevines available? 4/27/2009 2:23:00 PM


From: Tom wrote



> I am not aware of any other reproduced issues.



The GV sells reproductions of the June 1944

issue. They can be purchased on their web site.



Jim


0 -1 0 0
5658 bsdds@comcast.net
Re: Father Ralph Pfau Father Ralph Pfau 4/27/2009 4:05:00 PM


This is the sticky wicket (IMO) of "approved literature." It has nothing to do

with content but where it is published and how distributed. Just like a great

amt of literature isn't "approved" out of Hazelden . Yet there is the Little Red

Book and 24 Hours a Day book. They are not approved. So widely used was the

Little Red Book, that Dr. Bob used it to explain the the steps (before the

12/12) along with the Detroit Papers. There is a great source on the Hindsfoot

under the site on the four original authors in AA, Bill being just one.



A.A. Historical Materials

Part 1

http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html



- - - -



"Approved Literature" is the source of revenue for AA and they go to great

lengths to explain that other literature is not "outlawed." There are some areas

tho, that use the term "approved literature" like any thing else is written by

the evil sister of Cinderella. <G>

respectfully submitted



bob s





----- Original Message -----

From: nuevenueve @ ymail .com

To: AAHistoryLovers @ yahoogroups .com

Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 2:17:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: [ AAHistoryLovers ] Father Ralph Pfau



Hi, good day and 24 happy sobriety hours to

all AA members, good day to non-AA members:



Dears, I´ ve been searching what were the

causes Fr. Pfau ´s literature was not approved

or included by the conference. Were there

religion causes? Did Father Pfau relapse and

that´s why?



Please show me light.



Thank you pals.



Hugo


0 -1 0 0
5659 Joseph Nugent
Re: Father Ralph Pfau Father Ralph Pfau 4/27/2009 6:02:00 PM


AA Conference approves only what it prints.

They say the 3 most prolific writers were

Richmond Walker (24 hours a day) Fr. Ralph Pfau

(John Doe Golden Books) and Bill Wilson.



Fr. Ralph didn't have a slip/relapse.



Others may give you more/better information,



Joe



- - - -



From: Tom White <tomwhite@cableone.net>

(tomwhite at cableone.net)



Dear Hugo:



I am moved to write at once before my own notions are contradicted by

others who may write. It is my impression that Fr. Pfau's work has

simply joined the other (and hugely more voluminous) writings that

were so important in AA's earlier years, in coming under the AA

Conference rubric: "not Conference-approved literature."



I could cite, inter alia, the Little Red Book (containing much of Dr. Bob's

early teachings), the 24-hour prayer book, and, indeed, even the Bible.



My understanding is that this does not mean such writings are

disapproved or unacceptable in any sense. It simply means, if

I may put it this way, that they were not published by AA itself.

By which I mean the publishing concern which AA World Services operates. I think

AA HQ has tried at least somewhat to stem the

trend toward negative branding of everything it does NOT publish,

but I am not sure how successful it has been.



Very best to you.



Tom W,

Odessa, Texas


0 -1 0 0
5660 allan_gengler
Re: Father Ralph Pfau Father Ralph Pfau 4/27/2009 5:10:00 PM


There's no such thing as an "approved" aa reading list, though it is often

misrepresented by members of AA. There are two AA publishing companies, one

being the grapevine. For AA proper all literature and pamphlets must go through

the appropriate committee, submitted to the general conference and get approval.

The Big Book can't be changed without at least a 2/3 vote.



GSO says----

"Conference-approved" — What It Means to You



The term has no relation to material not published by G.S.O. It does not imply

Conference disapproval of other material about A.A. A great deal of literature

helpful to alcoholics is published by others, and A.A. does not try to tell any

individual member what he or she may or may not read.



BUT



From the AA Guidelines from the Literature Committee:



The spirit of the 1977 Conference action regarding group litera-

ture displays be reaffirmed, and recommended the suggestion

that A.A. groups be encouraged to display or sell only literature

published and distributed by the General Service Office, the A.A.

Grapevine and other A.A. entities.



- - - -



OTHER RELEVANT MATERIAL:



AAHistoryLovers Message #4798

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/4798

History of the term Conference Approved

The 1952 Conference Literature

Committee reaffirmed the stand

taken by the 1951 Conference as follows:

"This conference has no desire to review,

edit, or censor non-Foundation material.

Our object is to provide, in the future,

a means of distinguishing Foundation

literature from that issued locally or

by non-AA interests."



- - - -



Service Material From G.S.O.



"Conference-approved -- What It Means"



"The term 'Conference-approved' describes

written or audiovisual material approved by

the Conference for publication by G.S.O.

This process assures that everything in such

literature is in accord with A.A. principles.

Conference-approved material always deals with

the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous

or with information about the A.A. Fellowship."



"The term has no relation to material not

published by G.S.O. It does not imply

Conference disapproval of other material

about A.A. A great deal of literature helpful

to alcoholics is published by others, and

A.A. does not try to tell any individual

member what he or she may or may not read."



There are things which are "A.A. Literature"

even which are not conference-approved,

such as pamphlets and booklets printed

under the sponsorship of a local AA group

or intergroup:



"Central offices and intergroups do write and

distribute pamphlets or booklets that are not

Conference-approved. If such pieces meet the

needs of the local membership, they may be

legitimately classified as 'A.A. literature.'

There is no conflict between A.A. World

Services, Inc. (A.A.W.S. -- publishers of

Conference-approved literature), and central

offices or intergroups -- rather they complement

each other. The Conference does not disapprove

of such material."



- - - -



It was suggested by a conference advisory

at one point (1972), that when a group or intergroup

or AA conference puts literature out for sale,

that they put the conference approved

material in one location, and the non conference

approved material on another table or

bookshelf or part of the table. But that

was just a recommendation, where AA

groups are autonomous and can set

their own guidelines however they wish.


0 -1 0 0
5661 schaberg43
Re: Book signed by Dr Bob and Bill W Book signed by Dr Bob and Bill W 4/28/2009 1:07:00 PM


I own a first edition, first printing (1939) of the Big Book that was signed by

both Bill and Bob (and also, Jim Burwell). Although there is no date on Bob's

inscription (signed "Dr. Bob Smith"), I was told that this comment and signature

were done by Dr. Bob after the 1950 Cleveland Convention and just six weeks

before Bob died on November 16, 1950. Bill's inscription is also signed in full

("Bill Wilson") and is dated - in Bill's typical fashion - 5/24/51 in Oklahoma

City. (There is no date or place noted by Jim in his inscription.)



Also in my collection is an 11th printing of the first edition (1947) with

signatures by Bill Wilson (full name), Lois Wilson (ditto) and "Ann & Dr. Bob

Smith." Bill has also signed the half-title page that follows "Bill Wilson." The

brief inscription and the four (three?) signatures seem to be done in a very

'sloppy' and hurried manner - unlike most other signatures that I have seen, but

they are genuine nonetheless. It's just that these particular signatures have

something of an "on the run" feel to them.



For the record, Bill signed literally thousands of books over the years. Bob was

not only around much less time than Bill, he was also more of a 'homebody'

compared to Bill and a much humbler, gentler soul than Bill. Inscribed copies by

Dr. Bob are therefore considerably scarcer and what could easily be called

"rare" compared to those left by Bill.



Finally, it is clear that there was not strict need for Bill and Bob to be in

the same place at the same time to end up with side-by-side inscriptions in a

book. AA's were (and are) notoriously persistent when they want to accomplish

something and - as is the case with my dual-inscribed 1st, 1st - not hindered by

time and distance. I'm sure that is not the only instance where someone had a

copy signed by just one of the co-founders and traveled to see the other one for

the expressed purpose of obtaining their signature.



Over and above that, Bill and Bob frequently visited each other in either New

York or Ohio throughout the early years of AA - although I do not know of anyone

who has taken the time and trouble to document these face-to-face meetings.

(Now... there's a nice project for someone!)



Best,



Old Bill





--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, kentedavis@... wrote:

>

> I have heard of a 12th printing of the first

> edition that was signed by both Dr Bob (his

> whole name) and Bill Wilson (his whole name).

> I was wondering if it was a one of a kind.

> There were not that many times that Bill and

> Bob were together with a book to sign,

> especially signing their whole names.

>

> Could this have been signed at the 1950

> International Convention in 1950? This book

> was also signed by Lois and Father Pfau.

>

> Were there other times that Bill and Bob were

> together that they might have signed a book?

> Does anyone know of other occasions that when

> Bill and Bob were together after the book was

> published in 1939, other than the International

> Convention in 1950?

>

> Has anyone seen other books that were signed

> by both Bill and Bob?

>

> Kent D. 8/8/88

>


0 -1 0 0
5662 Glenn Chesnut
Re: Father Ralph Pfau Father Ralph Pfau 4/28/2009 5:21:00 PM


Dear Hugo,



To answer the actual questions you asked.



Father Pfau never had any relapses. He died sober with 23 years of sobriety in

1967. Although he was Roman Catholic, his message spoke to all AA's. At least

60% of the AA's who came to his spiritual retreats were Protestants.



There is nothing contrary to good AA teaching in the Golden Books. In fact they

are one of the best things you could read if you wanted to know more about how

to live good AA spirituality in your everyday life. It is good oldtime AA at its

best.



So why aren't Father Ralph Pfau's Golden Books "conference approved"?



The reason is, simply, that the only books that are "conference approved" are

books where the New York AA office pays for printing them and then gets the

royalties from their sales.



Richmond Walker offered Twenty Four Hours a Day (the second best selling AA book

of all time) to the New York AA people back in the 1950's and they turned him

down. Ed Webster offered The Little Red Book to them, and they turned him down

too.



The only books the New York AA office were publishing back then were books

written by Bill W.



All the other books written by other AA authors had to be self-published back in

those days. The New York AA office would not lift a finger to help them get

their books published.



Richmond Walker originally printed his books at the county courthouse and

distributed them himself from his home. Ed Webster and his friend Barry Collins

called themselves the "Coll-Webb" publishing company, and printed and

distributed the Little Red Books themselves. Father Ralph (and one of his nieces

and the three nuns who assisted him at the Convent of the Good Shepherd)

likewise printed and distributed the Golden Books themselves (they called

themselves "the Society of Matt Talbot Guild").



Back in those very early days, unless you were Bill W., the only way an AA

author could get an AA book published was to self-publish.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)



- - - -



Message #5656 from

<nuevenueve@ymail.com> (nuevenueve at ymail.com)



Hi, good day and 24 happy sobriety hours to

all AA members, good day to non-AA members:



Dears, I've been searching what were the

causes Fr. Pfau's literature was not approved

or included by the conference. Were there

religion causes? Did Father Pfau relapse and

that's why?



Please show me light.



Thank you pals.



Hugo


0 -1 0 0
5663 Glenn Chesnut
First conference published books NOT by Bill W. First conference published books NOT by Bill W. 5/3/2009 11:04:00 PM


A message to me from Tom Hickcox <cometkazie1@cox.net>

raised the question, what were the first conference

published books which were NOT written by Bill W?

 

Bill Wilson died on 24 January 1971.

 

I cannot think of any full length books which

were printed by AAWS prior to Bill W's death,

which were written by anyone other than him.



But I may be leaving something obvious out, by

oversight. My preliminary list of non-Bill W.

books would include:

 

**Came to Believe (New York: AAWS, 1973).

**Living Sober (New York: AAWS, 1975, 1998).

**Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers (New York: AAWS, 1980).

**Pass It On: The Story of Bill Wilson (New York: AAWS, 1984).

**Daily Reflections (New York: AAWS, 1990).

 

I also include some of our past messages about

the first two books on that list:





********************

Came to Believe (New York: AAWS, 1973).

********************

Message #2884:

Excerpt from unpublished manuscript on AA History by Bob P., 1985.

"Came to Believe," published in 1973, is a collection of stories by A.A.

members who tell in their own words what the phrase "spiritual awakening"

means to them. Five years previously, an A.A. member had pointed out the

need, because many newcomers translate the word "spiritual" in A.A. as

meaning "religious." The aim was to show the diversity of convictions

implied in "God as we understood Him,".. With which Bill was in delighted

agreement. Except for six pieces from the Grapevine the remainder of the

contributions were written especially for the book in response to an appeal

by G.S.O. and represent the broadest possible sampling of members from all

parts of the U.S. and Canada and around the world. The first cover of "Came

to Believe" was a photograph of a tender shoot in spring, peeping up through

the snow..beautifully symbolic, but perhaps too subtle for the browser at

the literature table. It was replaced by a simple dark blue title on an all

white background, still low-key and unobtrusive. After 1985, it was given a

bright red cover with gold stamping.

 

 

********************

Living Sober (New York: AAWS, 1975, 1998).

********************

Message #5162

Barry L.'s claim for royalties for Living Sober



I have copies of some correspondence between

Barry L. and the General Service Board that

were in Dr. Bob's collection at Brown

University.

There is a letter from Barry to George Dorsey

on March 7, 1982 (Cc: Robert Pearson).

There is a reply to Barry from John Bragg on

May 25, 1982 (Cc: Robert Pearson).

Finally, there is a letter from Barry to

Gordon Patrick, dated February 14, 1983.

- - - -

The first letter outline Barry's claim to

royalties from the sale of Living Sober.

The second letter basically says "you

negotiated a deal for $4,000 in 1974 and

you're not getting any more."

The last letter concludes with Barry stating

that he is left with no choice but to file

a claim for $153,304.45 in retroactive

royalties.

Chris

- - - -

From: Mel B.

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: Barry L. and Bill W's copy of

the Big Book manuscript

Hi Rick,

I was pleased to read this additional

information about Barry L., the manuscript,

etc. If his heirs made a bundle out of the

manuscript, it is probably poetic justice.

I think Barry did feel he deserved more

pay for what services he had rendered to

AA World Services and Lois supported him

in this effort. It failed, however, and

Barry died without getting any additional

bucks (at least to my knowledge). He was

virtually a son to Lois and accompanied her

or her trips. I took a photo of her greeting

Jack Bailey in Akron in 1978, with Barry

standing behind her. This is the only

photo I have of Barry, and I wish another

was available.

Mel

- - - -

Message #3155

Hi All,

I interviewed Barry L. by telephone and obtained the story about the

homosexual black man who had contacted Barry about coming into AA. This is

how it became included in "Pass It On." I think this happened in 1945. I

don't recall any mention of how the man fared after being introduced to the

fellowship.

I had met Barry at G.S.O. in New York and considered him a good friend.

We never discussed his being gay, but I do recall expressing condolences

when his partner died. I also attended Marty Mann's memorial services at

St. Bartholomew's Episcopal Church in New York City with Barry and a lesbian

member who knew Marty. The service was conducted by the minister of the

church and Yvelin G., who was an ordained Episcopal minister along with

being Marty's close associate for many years at the National Council on

Alcoholism. This service was about two months after Marty's passing. I had

interviewed Marty earlier that year at her home in Easton, CT, where she

also introduced me to her longtime partner, Priscilla Peck. Priscilla was

then suffering from Alzheimer's but Marty was still taking care of her, and

I had the feeling that they were a very devoted couple. I learned more

about their relationship in the Browns' book and was also happy to hear that

Priscilla was well taken care of after Marty died.

It appeared to me that Lois W.'s best friends in the fellowship were

Barry and Nell Wing (though Nell wasn't an alcoholic). Barry accompanied

Lois on out-of-town speaking engagements and was otherwise very attentive to

her. I believed that Barry was probably in her will, as was Nell, but he

predeceased Lois.

I was also familiar with Barry's efforts to obtain extra compensation for

his work on "Living Sober." Lois reportedly endorsed this effort. I didn't

feel he had any grounds for receiving additional pay, as he had taken on the

project on a work-for-hire basis with no royalties specified. He used Bill

W.'s royalties as a precedent, but I'm sure Bill negotiated the royalty

agreement up front when he wrote "The Twelve and Twelve" plus "AA Comes of

Age." His Big Book royalties were agreed upon earlier. I think Barry died

before this matter was finally settled.

Mel Barger

- - - -

Message #4756

Hi everyone,

Audrey Borden here with a response to LD

Pierce's post. Everything I learned about

Barry Leach is recorded in the book "The

History of Gay People in Alcoholics Anonymous:

From the Beginning."

A transcript of his wonderful talk at the

1985 Twin Cities Roundup, "The Gay Origins of

AA's Third Tradition," appears in Chapter 2.

Other topics include a comparison of treatments

for alcoholism and homosexuality, the debate

in AA over meetings for gay alcoholics, the

development of gay meetings, interviews with

pioneering lesbian and gay addiction pro-

fessionals, the history of AA's pamphlet AA

and the Gay/Lesbian Alcoholic, the story

of Alcoholics Together (a parallel AA

organization for gay alcoholics in southern

California from 1968-1982), and many stories

of recovery and wisdom from gay (and straight)

AA's with long-term sobriety.

Best, Audrey

 


0 -1 0 0
5664 Bent Christensen
SV: Re: Father Ralph Pfau SV: Re: Father Ralph Pfau 4/29/2009 3:04:00 AM


Dear Glenn, dear group

 

Is there any facts or indications, why the New

York AA office turned down the offer from both

Ed Webster and Richmond Walker?



Best regards

Bent Christensen

Valmuevej 17

6000 Kolding

Tlf. 23 84 54 26

www.pass-it-on.dk

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/StoreBog_studie/





Fra: Glenn Chesnut <glennccc@sbcglobal.net>

Emne: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Father Ralph Pfau

Til: "AAHistoryLovers group" <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>

Dato: tirsdag 28. april 2009 23.21



Richmond Walker offered Twenty Four Hours a Day (the second best selling AA book

of all time) to the New York AA people back in the 1950's and they turned him

down. Ed Webster offered The Little Red Book to them, and they turned him down

too.



The only books the New York AA office were publishing back then were books

written by Bill W.


0 -1 0 0
5665 Bruce C.
Publishing the 24 Hour book Publishing the 24 Hour book 5/4/2009 12:20:00 AM


Why the 24 Hour book was not published by A.A.



Hi All



We have heard various reasons why A.A. never

published the 24 Hour a Day Book, that is

currently published by Hazelden but, here is

the real story. This is from the Final Report:

Fourth General Service Conference of A.A. 1954,

page 20:



"The Conference was asked to consider the offer

of the publisher who wished to give to A.A.

Publishing, Inc. publication rights to the

booklet, 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day.'



A two-page letter from the publisher, favoring

this proposal and answering certain objections

to the proposal, was read to the Conference.

The letter noted that current net profit from

sales of the booklet is about $5,300 annually.**

Requests that A.A. Publishing, Inc. undertake

publication of the booklet have been received

from many areas, largely as a result of

suggestions by the present publisher, it was

reported.



Comment by the Delegates indicated they felt

it unwise to set a precedent in the case of

this booklet and expressed fear that A.A.

Publishing 'would be flooded with similar

requests' if it did so. The Delegate from the

State in which the booklet is published said

it was the consensus of his group and of his

area that the proposal not be approved.



Following full discussion of the proposal,

the Conference adopted a resolution that

publication rights to 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day'

not be accepted and further asked that the

publisher be thanked for his offer."



Bruce C.



- - - -



**FROM THE MODERATOR:



Richmond Walker's papers, which are in one of

the Florida AA archives, show that Rich

took this profit every year and gave it to the

Daytona Beach AA group, which in turn sent the

entire sum to the New York office.



As long as Rich and the Daytona Beach AA

group were publishing the 24 Hour book (1948

to 1954), they never kept a penny of the

profits from its sale for themselves.



GFC


0 -1 0 0
5666 Glenn Chesnut
Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book 5/4/2009 3:25:00 PM


Bent Christensen has asked, "Is there any facts or indications, why the New York

AA office turned down the offer from both Ed Webster and Richmond Walker," to

let the New York office take over publishing their books?



- - - -



(1) We remember how Bill W. had encountered such enormous difficulties in

obtaining the money to publish the Big Book in 1939.  In 1952 to 53, he met even

more difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Twelve Steps and Twelve

Traditions.  Finally, in desperation, he entered into a deal with Harper and

Brothers, a commercial publisher, where two editions would be published, one for

AA members, and the other a commercial version (for fifty cents more per copy). 

By later standards, this would probably have been regarded as a breach of the

Traditions, but it was the only way Bill could figure out to raise the money to

print his new book.  See Pass It On, pages 355-6.



On the other hand, the authors of the Twenty Four Hour book and the Little Red

Book (together with the AA groups which had sponsored those two books, the

Daytona Beach group in Florida and the Nicollet Group in Minneapolis), had

apparently effortlessly been able to raise the money to publish those two books

and keep them in print.



The New York office only had the money to publish and promote ONE BOOK at that

time.  Should the manuscript to Bill W's Twelve and Twelve be tossed back in a

file cabinet, and never receive publication, so the New York office could take

over publishing Twenty Four Hours a Day, or the Little Red Book?



There was a period, according to Ernest Kurtz, when more AA members had their

own copy of the Twenty Four hour book than there were who had a copy of the Big

Book.  In my part of Indiana, it was the little black book that all the AA

people carried around with them all day long, not the Big Book.  And the Little

Red Book was a direct competitor to the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, and

was not only selling extremely well, but was far easier for beginners to read

and understand.



So both these books were already doing better than anything Bill W. had ever

written. They most certainly did NOT need New York's help.



Does anybody seriously think that the manuscript of the Twelve and Twelve should

have been tossed in a file cabinet and not published, just to take over

publishing some other book that was already doing well?



(2) When Richmond Walker asked the New York office to take over publishing

Twenty Four Hours a Day in 1953, the response was an almost immediate "no."



See http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html



Not only did they not have the money in New York to take over printing it, they

did not yet, at that point in 1953, know for sure that the just-published 12 and

12 was going to be successful.



When Ed Webster and Barry Collins offered New York the Little Red Book, New

York's response, naturally enough, was identical.  New York was putting all of

its money into first the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions (in 1953), next the

second edition of the Big Book (in 1955), and finally Alcoholics Anonymous Comes

of Age (in 1957).



(3) And Bent, there here arose an even more important question:  Why SHOULD the

New York AA office be turned into a huge publishing house, with all the

financial concerns and monetary investment which that would entail?  The

response by the Delegates to Richmond Walker made it clear that they most

certainly did NOT see that as the proper role of the New York AA office:



"Comment by the Delegates indicated they felt it unwise to set a precedent in

the case of this booklet and expressed fear that A.A. Publishing 'would be

flooded with similar requests' if it did so."

 

 


0 -1 0 0
5667 Jim M
Re: Is the silkworth.net site down? Is the silkworth.net site down? 5/5/2009 1:15:00 PM


Good day my AAHistoryLover friends!

 

The problem is the doctors wrote me out of

work for a year on two separate occasions. I

was unable to continue working after July 24th

2007 and am using Bender And Bender to obtain

Social Security.



So, although the activation fee to get the

http://silkworth.net/ site back online is

quite small, I nevertheless do not have it

at this point.



It is frustrating to say the least. I do hope

I am able to get it back online soon. Just

haven't figured out how yet.

 

Hope you are all doing well!



Yours in service,

Ever grateful,

Jim M.



silkworthdotnet@yahoo.com

(silkworthdotnet at yahoo.com) 


0 -1 0 0
5668 momaria33772
Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book Publishing the 24 Hour book 5/4/2009 5:51:00 PM


Hi All,



Thanks to Bruce for his reply which brings up

a related issue that I would like to address.

The original question and some of the responses

referred to the book being refused by the

"New York AA Office". There may be some who

do not understand that the decision was really

made by the representatives of all the groups

in the US and Canada. The "New York AA Office"

followed the decision made by these representa-

tives (Delegates).



There seems to be a feeling by some that GSO

runs things, often in opposition to the groups

and members. I think it is our responsibility

to make it clear that we are the them that

makes these decisions.



* * * *



I'd like to share one other thought I have had

every time anyone has brought up publishing of

any materials like these. Would the people who

love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to

have it changed at some future Delegate

Conference based on some objection that

someone in my home group had and got submitted

to the Conference Agenda?



For those who don't believe that could happen,

I would point out that both the fourth edition

versions of the Foreward and Dr. Bob's Nightmare

have been changed based on submissions by

members and groups in the US and Canada. I

could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour

Book being radically different from the one

originally published.



Jim H.


0 -1 0 0
5669 Archives Historie
Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book Publishing the 24 Hour book 5/5/2009 1:16:00 PM


From the Daytona Florida Archives,



The moderator GFC is absolutely right on

and correct.  Not a penny was kept here in

Daytona and was all past on to GSO.  We have

the papers to prove this fact also.

 

So when you visit Daytona please come in and

visit the archives display in our Intergroup

office where you mary see these papers and

much much more.  



 Thank you.  David in Daytona



- - - -



Subject: Publishing the 24 Hour book

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:20 AM



FROM THE MODERATOR:



Richmond Walker's papers, which are in one of

the Florida AA archives, show that Rich

took this profit every year and gave it to the

Daytona Beach AA group, which in turn sent the

entire sum to the New York office.



As long as Rich and the Daytona Beach AA

group were publishing the 24 Hour book (1948

to 1954), they never kept a penny of the

profits from its sale for themselves.



GFC


0 -1 0 0
5670 Charlie Parker
Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book Publishing the 24 Hour book 5/6/2009 1:38:00 PM


What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare

and which foreword was changed??



Charlie Parker

Ace Golf Netting

828 Wagon Trail

Austin, TX 78758

Toll free 877-223-6387



-----Original Message-----

From: momaria33772

Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:51 PM



I'd like to share one other thought I have had

every time anyone has brought up publishing of

any materials like these. Would the people who

love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to

have it changed at some future Delegate

Conference based on some objection that

someone in my home group had and got submitted

to the Conference Agenda?



For those who don't believe that could happen,

I would point out that both the fourth edition

versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare

have been changed based on submissions by

members and groups in the US and Canada. I

could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour

Book being radically different from the one

originally published.



Jim H.


0 -1 0 0
5671 Ben Humphreys
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/5/2009 7:27:00 PM


I always heard that the Conference turned it

down (the 24 Hour Book) on the grounds it was

too religious. Live and learn. Thanks for

your explanation. We all used it when I came

in and I still use it everyday.


0 -1 0 0
5673 Glenn Chesnut
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/6/2009 3:39:00 PM


Ben Humphreys (message 5671) said "I always

heard that the Conference turned it down

(the 24 Hour Book) on the grounds it was

too religious."



Yes, I have heard people say that too, but that

was not so.  In fact, the reason why the 24 Hour

Book became so popular in AA so quickly,

was because it provided a replacement for a

book which some AA members DID regard

as "too religious," namely, The Upper Room.



From 1935 until the publication of the 24 Hour

Book in 1948, the main meditational book used

by AA people was this Southern Methodist

publication called The Upper Room.



And as noted, the reason why AA people all

over the US and Canada began using the 24 Hour

Book right away, was because they wanted a

meditational book that was not filled with so

much Christian religious phraseology.

 

To them, the 24 Hour Book seemed perfect as

a substitute for The Upper Room precisely

because IT WASN'T VERY RELIGIOUS in the

traditional Christian sense. No references

in the 24 Hour Book to Jesus or requirement of

belief in Christ, and hardly any scripture

quotations.



Richmond Walker, the AA member who wrote the

24 Hour Book, was sensitive to these issues.

His father, Joseph Walker, had been one of the

leading atheists in the United States (he wrote

a book defending atheism, and was one of the

signers of the original Humanist Manifesto).

Rich himself, his son told me, attended the

Unitarian Church:



http://www.uua.org/aboutus/index.shtml



"Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion

with Jewish-Christian roots. It has no creed.

It affirms the worth of human beings, advocates

freedom of belief and the search for advancing

truth, and tries to provide a warm, open,

supportive community for people who believe

that ethical living is the supreme witness of

religion."



THE UPPER ROOM



http://hindsfoot.org/uprm1.html



"From 1935 to 1948, most A.A. members read

The Upper Room every morning for their morning

meditation. Although the Oxford Group had the

greatest influence on the development of early

A.A., this little paperback booklet may well

have been the second greatest influence on

early A.A. spirituality. This article gives

selections from the readings in some of the

issues of The Upper Room published in 1938 and

1939, along with commentary explaining some of

the ideas which A.A. drew from this source:

the understanding of character and character

defects, happiness as an inside job, the

Divine Light within, warnings against being

too imprisoned by doctrines, dogmas and church

creeds, the dangers of resentment, instructions

about how to pray, entering the Divine Silence,

learning to listen to God, opening the shutters

of my mind to let in the Sunlight of the Spirit,

taking life One Day at a Time, and above all,

remembering that God is present with me at all

times: 'Nearer is he than breathing, closer

than hands or feet.'"



See the Upper Room website at http://www.upperroom.org/



THE UPPER ROOM AND ROMAN CATHOLIC SPIRITUALITY



The Upper Room is not only read and used by

people from a number of different Protestant

denominations, but many Roman Catholic families

over the years have also kept copies of The

Upper Room in their homes for their own private

devotions.



In fact, the Southern Methodists have always

had strong links to the Roman Catholic tradition

as well as the Anglo-Catholic tradition.  So

for example, as Fiona Dodd pointed out to me,

the Upper Room website currently includes

instructions on the spirituality of St. Ignatius

Loyola (1491-1556), who was the spiritual master

whom both Sister Ignatia and Father Ed Dowling

looked to as their great spiritual guide:



http://www.upperroom.org/methodx/thelife/prayermethods/



http://www.upperroom.org/methodx/thelife/prayermethods/ignatian.asp



http://www.upperroom.org/methodx/thelife/prayermethods/examen.asp



But this too is a very religious approach,

making heavy use of traditional Christian

language and imagery.



Richmond Walker's Twenty-Four Hours a Day

broke with that almost completely, and

devised language and imagery which could be

used by anyone who believed in a transcendent

Higher Power and the need to practice love,

unselfishness, honesty, and purity in our

daily lives.


0 -1 0 0
5674 nuevenueve@ymail.com
Correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Pfau Correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Pfau 5/6/2009 2:28:00 PM


Hello Group:



I was reading part of Fr. Ralph Pfau's "The

Golden book of Sanity" and remember Fr. Pfau

wrote something approximately like this:



>It is one of the AA glories that the individual

makes his election in subjects of AA without

waiting for the interference or criticizing

from the part of his companions<



referring to a letter to him from Bill W.



The question is, is there a website/book/other

in which one could find all the correspondence

between Bill W. and Fr. Ralph Pfau?



Thanks as always.


0 -1 0 0
5675 Glenn Chesnut
Re: Correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Pfau Correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Pfau 5/6/2009 4:08:00 PM


In Message 5674, <nuevenueve@ymail.com> asked

where we could find the correspondence between

Bill W. and Fr. Ralph Pfau.



I am glad you asked this question.



When Amy Filiatreau was the New York AA

Archivist, she very kindly located several of

Bill W.'s letters referring to Ralph Pfau,

letters referring to one particular question

I had asked her about.  Bill was unhappy with

both Fr. Ralph and Lillian Roth because they

had broken their anonymity in print (Fr. Ralph

in his autobiography which he published in Look

magazine in 1958 and Lillian Roth in her

autobiography, I'll Cry Tomorrow, which came

out in 1954.



But I got the impression from Amy that there

were a whole lot more letters in which Bill W.

was either writing to Fr. Ralph or mentioning

his name in a letter to someone else.



Unfortunately, I have so far been unable to

find out whether anyone kept Fr. Ralph's papers

after his death.  One of his nieces, who took

care of a lot of things after his death, told

me that she did not know where they had gone,

or even if anyone had kept them at all.  The

Convent of the Good Shepherd in Indianapolis,

where he was the Confessor, is no longer in

existence, I have been told. If his papers

still exist any place, it is possible that

there might be copies of letters from him to

Bill W. there.



If anybody knows where Fr. Ralph's papers are

now, or if anybody would like to go through the

AA Archives in New York looking for references

to Fr. Ralph in Bill W.'s correspondence, it

would certainly be useful to AA historians.





REFERENCES:



See Father Ralph S. Pfau and Al Hirshberg, "A

Priest's Own Story," Look, Vol. 22, No. 5

(March 4, 1958): 84-97; and "Out of the Shadows,"

Look, Vol. 22, No. 6 (March 18, 1958): 85-98.



Lillian Roth, I'll Cry Tomorrow (New York:

Frederick Fell, 1954). Lillian first joined

A.A. in 1946.



New York A.A. Archives: see especially

letters from Bill to Dean B. (Indianapolis)

on February 11, 1958; and Bill to George S.

(Philadelphia) on June 2, 1958.


0 -1 0 0
5676 Arthur S
RE: Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book 5/7/2009 9:10:00 AM


The statement below, regarding assumed difficulties in obtaining money in

1952 and 1953 to print the 12&12, is not consistent with its source

reference to "Pass It On (pages 355-6):"



==============================================



"(1) We remember how Bill W. had encountered such enormous difficulties in

obtaining the money to publish the Big Book in 1939. In 1952 to 53, he met

even more difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Twelve Steps

and Twelve Traditions. Finally, in desperation, he entered into a deal with

Harper and Brothers, a commercial publisher, where two editions would be

published, one for AA members, and the other a commercial version (for fifty

cents more per copy). By later standards, this would probably have been

regarded as a breach of the Traditions, but it was the only way Bill could

figure out to raise the money to print his new book. See Pass It On, pages

355-6."



==============================================



Reliable source reference show no such notion of difficulties in raising

funds for publication of the 12&12 or of any other of Bill's works from the

time of the establishment of the General Service Conference in 1951. In fact

the record shows very much the opposite.



Based on a 1951 Conference advisory action recommending that AA literature

should have Conference approval, the Alcoholic Foundation Board formed a

special Trustees’ committee on literature to recommend to the 1952

Conference literature items that should be retained and future literature

items that would be needed. Bill W also reported to the 1952 Conference on

the many literature projects he was engaged in.



Bill's projects reported in the 1952 Conference final report were: (1)

Up-dating the story section of the "Big Book" to provide a more truly

representative cross-section of AA recovery stories; (2) A new series of

anecdotal analyses of the Twelve Traditions; (3) A series of orderly,

point-by-point essays on the Twelve Steps; (4) "A kind of a popular history

of AA and its ideas of recovery, tradition and service"; (5) A book on the

application of AA philosophy to the "total problem of living" and (6) A

reference manual stating our total experience with the whole idea of service

functions.



The 1952 Conference unanimously approved the Board proposals and Bill's

projects. For Bill, this resulted in publication of:(a) "The Twelve Steps

and Twelve Traditions" in 1953; (b) “The Third Legacy Manual” in 1955 and

renamed “The AA Service Manual” in 1969; (c) The 2nd edition Big Book in

1955; (d) “AA Comes of Age” in 1957; (e) “The Twelve Concepts for World

Service” in 1962; and (f) “The AA way of Life” in 1966 and later renamed to

“As Bill Sees It” in 1975.



In regards to the 12&12, "Pass It On" (pg 356) states that "The book was an

immediate success." The 12&12 sold 29,567 copies in 1953 compared to Big

Book sales of 23,296 copies.



Both the 12&12 and "AA Comes of Age" were sold commercially through Harper &

Brothers with the consent of the General Service Conference (Traditions

notwithstanding). In Bob P's "Unofficial History of AA" it states that in

1952 "Bill asked to be released from routine duties in order to concentrate

on writing: updating the story section of the Big Book and writing a new

series of essays on the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. The Literature

Committee reported ten projects had been completed, and ten more were

suggested by the Delegates. Volunteers couldn’t accomplish all this work, so

the Conference approved employment of professional writers’ in AA (p 183)."



I'd like to know what source documents give the impression of "difficulties

in obtaining money." It doesn't seem to be historically accurate/factual.



Cheers

Arthur



- - - -



RESPONSE FROM GLENN C.



Arthur,



I cited Pass It On, pages 355-6.



If the New York AA office was rolling in money,

then why did they enter that commercial

agreement with Harper and Brothers over the

two editions of the Twelve Steps and Twelve

Traditions?



If they didn't need the money, and didn't HAVE

to do it in order to get the Twelve and Twelve

published at all, then that commercial profit-

making deal doesn't look very cricket to me.



Glenn



-----Original Message-----

From: Glenn Chesnut

Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:25 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers group

Subject: Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book



> In 1952 to 53, he met even more difficulties in

> obtaining the money to publish the Twelve Steps

> and Twelve Traditions.  Finally, in desperation,

> he entered into a deal with Harper and Brothers,

> a commercial publisher, where two editions would

> be published, one for AA members, and the other

> a commercial version (for fifty cents more per

> copy).  By later standards, this would probably

> have been regarded as a breach of the Traditions,

> but it was the only way Bill could figure out

> to raise the money to print his new book. 

> See Pass It On, pages 355-6.


0 -1 0 0
5677 Arthur S
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/7/2009 9:41:00 AM


In Bob P's "Non Approved AA History" manuscript he notes the following (pg

211) regarding the Twenty-Four Hours a Day book,:



"The history of AA literature is also told in the history of what was not

published. Several Conferences had to deal with the request that the

Twenty-Four Hours A Day book be adopted as AA literature, since it was

written by an AA member and was in widespread use in AA (It was copyrighted

and published by Hazelden and hence was not available. Also, being written

in specific religious language, it would be inappropriate.) ..." [Note: Bob

P wrote this in the mid-to-late 1980s]



The 1953, 1954 and 1972 Conferences faced the question of accepting

publication rights on the “Twenty-Four Hours a Day” book written by AA

member Richmond W.



The 1953 Conference postponed the matter to allow review prior to the 1954

Conference with the recommendation to: "Ask the Delegates to weigh this

question for submission to the 1954 Conference: Does the Conference feel it

should depart from its purely textbook program by printing non-textbook

literature such as the "24 Hour Book of meditation?"



The final 1954 Conference report states the following: "The Conference was

asked to consider the offer of the publisher who wished to give to AA

Publishing, Inc. publication rights to the booklet, 'Twenty-Four Hours a

Day.' A two-page letter from the publisher, favoring this proposal and

answering certain objections to the proposal, was read to the Conference.

The letter noted that current net profit from sales of the booklet is about

$5,300 annually. Requests that AA Publishing, Inc. undertake publication of

the booklet have been received from many areas, largely as the result of

suggestions by the present publisher, it was reported. Comment by the

Delegates indicated they felt it unwise to set a precedent in the case of

this booklet and expressed fear that AA Publishing 'would be flooded with

similar requests' if it did so. The Delegate from the State in which the

booklet is published said it was the consensus of his group and of his area

that the proposal not be approved. Following full discussion of the

proposal, the Conference adopted a resolution that publication rights to

'Twenty-Four Hours a Day' not be accepted and further asked that the

publisher be thanked for his offer."



The 1972 Conference Literature Committee recommended that: "The 24-Hour Book

not be confirmed as Conference-approved literature."



Cheers

Arthur



- - - -



RESPONSE FROM GLENN C.



Bob P.'s account is confused. At the time of

the 1953-54 discussion, the Twenty Four Hour

book was NOT being published by Hazelden.

It was being published by Richmond Walker himself

under the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach

AA Group.



The reasons given for New York not taking over

its publication at that time were (as you note

above):



(1) "fear that AA Publishing 'would be

flooded with similar requests' if it did so."



(2) From the wording of the question which the

1953 Conference put to the 1954 Conference,

it seems to have been a possible issue (to

them) that the Twenty Four Hour book was

"non-textbook literature."



What would that have meant in 1953?



When some folks tried to raise the issue again

in 1972 (a year after Bill W.'s death),

Bill P. is correct in saying that it was now

effectively a dead issue, since Hazelden now

owned the copyright, and would not be expected

to give it up.



Glenn


0 -1 0 0
5678 Glenn Chesnut
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/8/2009 4:04:00 PM


From: "trysh travis" <trysh.travis@gmail.com>

(trysh.travis at gmail.com)



I'd like to politely disagree about the role

religion played in the Conference decision not

to approve *24 Hours a Day.* I have seen

Richmond Walker's correspondence with the GSO

and Literature Committee members on this matter

at the Archives in New York, and it is fairly

clear there that religiosity was an issue.



In a letter to O.K.P. dated 18 Feb. 1954,

Walker wrote angrily about the rebuff he'd

received from the Conference. Describing the

official response to the proposal that "AA

Publishing should accept the publication

rights to the book *24 Hours a Day,*" Walker

claimed that "favoring this proposal, the

statement is made: 'The Book is accepted and

used by a number of AAs who say they find it

helpful.'" In opposing this proposal, two

statements are made. One is, 'If a precedent

is set, through acceptance of this offer, how

would the movement be able to deal with the

problem of many other booklets, for which

Conference approval would undoubtedly be

sought?....' The 2nd Statement is 'Since the

booklet is regarded by some as having religious

overtones, how could the movement justify its

entrance into a field of publishing in which

misinterpretation and misunderstanding could

arise?'"



After noting somewhat snippily that *24 Hours*

is a "book," not a "booklet," Walker goes on to

respond to what must have been a delegate's

or a committee's "statements" at some length:



"This book carefully refrains from any mention

of religion, and it has no more 'religious

overtones' than the Big Book. It is largely

spiritual and inspirational, but so is the

book 'Alcoholics Anonymous.' ... There is no

mention of religion in the whole book, for

instance, the word 'Christ' or 'Jesus' is

never mentioned, nor is it ever advised that

we go to church. Where then, is the 'religion'?

... we have a spiritual program" why try to

deny it? ... I do not think that either of

these statements opposing the proposal have

been fairly stated, nor do I think that they

have any basis in fact."



(RW to OKP, Box 73, Folder C.)



We lack a "smoking gun" where someone explicitly

states "AAWSO does not want to take over

publication of the book because it is too

religious," but the content of this letter

makes it pretty clear, I think, that Walker

got that message.



Further, in a response to an "Ask-It Basket"

question at the 1968 Conference, "Why can't we

have a 24-Hour book printed by G.S.O.?" the

statement was made that "The 'Twenty-Four Hours

a Day' book was offered to A.A.W.S. some years

ago. The Conference then felt it was too

spiritually or religiously oriented. A.A.W.S.

would be reluctant to put out a similar book.

since it has no wish to compete with this book.

"The A.A. Way of Life' seems to serve the

same need." (Conference Report 1968, p. 27).



I think it is important to note this evidence

of uneasiness with Walker's religiosity. The

logistical and procedural reasons the Conference

had for declining the book were real, but so

was a skittishness about the book's palpable

Christian overtones.



I say they are "palpable" because while Walker

is correct that Christ, Jesus, and church are

never mentioned in *24 Hours,* it routinely

alludes to and quotes from the Christian Bible.



(I'm just skimming through my copy at random

here .... Quote from St. Paul, 26 April;

references to parable of the Prodigal Son,

12-13 March; quote from Mark 13:13, "he that

endureth to the end, the same shall be saved,"

19 Feb, etc.) Walker is clearly drawing on

many other spiritual sources-- including, as

Glenn has pointed out elsewhere, the "New

Thought" beliefs he probably developed in the

Emmanuel Movement in Boston. Even if it

doesn't dominate the book, however, there is

a clear pattern of Christian imagery and

language present, enough that Walker's claim

that "there is no mention of religion" seems

a bit naive, and also enough, I think, so that

reasonable people might find the book too

"religious."



I discuss why the Conference might've been

particularly concerned about this issue in the

mid-1950s in my forthcoming book (which, as

some of you know, I have been working on for

MANY 24 hours!). We're still a few months

away from the publication date, but you can

get a preview of the finished product here:



http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647.



Trysh T.


0 -1 0 0
5679 rick tompkins
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/6/2009 8:44:00 PM


Thank you, Glenn, for the reports on the early AA use of the Upper Room

periodical from the United Methodist Church and the phenomenal demand for

the Twenty-Four Hours A Day book.



"The Upper Room" was always available, for free or with a small-sum mailed

subscription, in the Narthex (the 'lobby') of my home Methodist Church and

I'm sure it's made available there today.



It can still inspire me, but not in the manner that Twenty-Four Hours A Day

led me in my early sobriety.



AAWS' Daily Reflections wasn't available until 1990 and the "24 Hours Book"

was the second reading at all of the Groups I attended, and its use remains

widespread here in Illinois.



It's an available book printed nearby in Minnesota and I wonder if that's

one reason for its prevalence in the Midwest.there are still Steering

Committee discussions on which daily book to read at Group meetings and I'm

sure that when AAWS assembles the second Daily Reflections (as currently

proposed) there'll be a new round of more discussions.



The content of the 24 Hours book's format can still find its way into an AA

meeting, "can we hear the AA Thought For the Day?" and all three sections

are normally read. And, it reminds the group of the actual calendar date, to

boot, LOL.



Apart from the "thought," the "meditation," and the ending 'question' the

"Meditation For the Day" comes directly from the Oxford Group movement's use

of God Calling by Two Listeners (A.H. Russell, Editor). Richmond W. either

excerpted verbatim or rewrote many of the same daily messages from God

Calling, bringing it home to AA recovery and spiritual growth.



I wonder if he was ever approached by Oxford Groupers (or Moral Re-Armament

members) on his use of the older "Two Listeners" work. Was he accused of

being "not maximum" or worse? Perhaps by the time Richmond finished his

draft in the early 1950s, God Calling was an historically obscure item.



The "Two Listeners" daily meditations are still in print by a few publishers

and I was fortunate to find a used copy years ago.







In the 24 Hours book, some of the Meditations follow directly from the

Thought and others seem completely disjointed from the lead Thought, but the

textual 'dance with the power of God' reinforced my dwindled Faith early on.

I like to think that Richmond's work was assembled and written as a

recovered AA's resource to find and rediscover faith in the Trinity of an

almighty God.



I chose my most effective concept of a Higher Power as the workings of the

Holy Spirit and have found others who found the same HP along the way. My

belief in the "Son" is ultimately an AA outside issue but it's an 'inside

job' for this ex-drunk!



The apostle Paul writes that the 'worldly wisdom is not God's wisdom.' My

path of recovery led me full circle to my belief in "the peace of God that

surpasses all understanding" and I am a better person for it. Richmond W.'s

effort took the wheel for a while on that path.



With serenity to all,



Rick, Illinois







On a side note, when Works Publishing and/or A.A. Publishing declined taking

on the responsibilities of publishing the 24 Hours book, the Little Red

Book, or any other suggestions, it really had no choice---the funding wasn't

available, period. Hence, the dual-publishing of the 1953 12+12 with Harper

Brothers helped its distribution, along with the same dual publishing of the

1957 AA Comes of Age with Harper's.



Even the fledgling GSO in England politely, in 1954, declined to publish the

12+12 in the UK for lack of funds. ---R.



- - - -



FROM GLENN C.



Rich had gotten sober once for two and a half years

(1939-1941) in the Oxford Group, but then he went

back to drinking again.



From 1941 to May of 1942, Rich was not only back to drinking again, he was

putting away so much alcohol that he had to be hospitalized several times, lying

there suffering through the D.T.'s. But still he could not stop. "I was lying

in a hospital when my wife sent a lawyer to tell me she did not want me around

any longer. In this she was certainly justified -- I was of no use as a husband

or father to my children." He and Agnes had been married about nineteen years at

the time. He was forty-nine years old, and everything was now destroyed. It was

clear to one and all that he was a hopeless alcoholic, and as he said in his

lead, "my wife rightly refused to put up with it any longer."



So he was very definitely "not maximum"!



Finally, in May 1942, he joined the newly founded AA group

in Boston, and never drank again. And also got back with his wife and family

again.



He says at the beginning of the Twenty Four Hour

book that he obtained permission from Dodd, Mead

and Company for adapting material from "God Calling

by Two Listeners" for use in the fine print section

at the bottom of each page.



Glenn C.



A SHORT BIOGRAPHY OF RICHMOND WALKER:



http://hindsfoot.org/rwfla1.html

http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla2.html

http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html



(based on his memoirs plus some of the

autobiographical passages in the Twenty

Four Hour book)


0 -1 0 0
5680 Lee Nickerson
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/7/2009 8:30:00 PM


I remember a discussion I had with Frank M. about the 24 hour book. I came away

thinking that the only reason that AA did not conference-approve this book was

because it would set a precedent other than AA publishing and creating their own

literature. It seems that most AAs I know are self-fancied writers and if there

was a part of the Conference that approved any writing that was submitted, there

would probably have to be a separate office somewhere just to handle that load.

I don't see or hear about the 24 hour Book much in my area but it was the top

recommended reading when I got sober. I am satisfied with the belief that if

something is not conference-approved, it is not conference-non approved. We can

only examine and approve so much.



- - - -



From: "John Schram" <lasenby327@surfree.com>

(lasenby327 at surfree.com)



I too had heard the the Walker book Twenty-Four

Hours a Day was turned down due to meditation and

prayer section. I had heard this came from book

"God Calling" by A J Russell.



John Schram Corona del Mar, Calif.



- - - -



From: James Flynn <jdf10487@yahoo.com>

(jdf10487 at yahoo.com)



I thought the Daily Reflections book was written

so that AA members could have a Daily Meditations

book that was conference approved. When I got

sober in 1987 it was suggested to me (by a

sponsor) that I get a 24 hour a day book, a Big

Book, the 12 &12, Living Sober, the Little

Green Book and the Little Red Book. This was

to be my "spiritual stash."



Apparently this was standard operating procedure

in some parts of the country before the Daily

Reflections book was published. I say this

because I have corresponded with many other

people in AA who were given similiar directions

by their sponsors.



Later it seemed that there was some anti-hazelden,

anti-treatment sentiments going around the

program and people stopped advocating the use

of Hazelden publications and chips. Hazelden

or "Hazelnut" as some critics liked to call it,

became the object of derision. Evidently this

was because they represented "watered down" AA,

in some people's minds. The irony of this is

that books like the 24 hour a day book actually

placed more of an emphasis on the spiritual

angle than some conference-approved AA literature

did and was not filled with "psychobabble" or

"treatment concepts" as some people like to

claim.



Sincerely, Jim F.



- - - -



From: "grault" <GRault@yahoo.com>

(GRault at yahoo.com)



I think it may be a bit of a stretch to say

flatly that the Conference did not turn down

the 24 Hour book offer because it was too

religious. In fact, that may have been one of

the reasons, at least in the minds of some or

many of the voting Delegates. The Conference

Report cites the other reason (would be flooded

with requests), but of course tact would

suggest avoiding also saying that the book was

too religious. Many GSC discussions and delegate

motives do not find their way into the GSC

Report.



Clearly, 24 Hours is less spcifically Christian

than The Upper Room, but it often has a Christian

ring to it, quotes the bible, etc.



And incidentally, it seems to me that saying

that the GSC actions are performed "by us"

is true only to about the same extent that

actions by the U.S. Congress are actions "by

us" who live in the United States. Not a

criticism, just an observation.


0 -1 0 0
5681 Shakey1aa@aol.com
Two questions on Grapevine items Two questions on Grapevine items 5/6/2009 9:03:00 PM


Question #1-

I have 2 different mini Grapevines. One has a picture of mountains on the

cover and says "every month,all year"

AA Grapevine

our meeting in print

it lists AA Steps and Traditions,Serenity Prayer,AA History,I am

Responsible, and Unity Declaration

I got this one around 1995 and was told that it was no longer going to be

printed.



In the audio tapes I received from the Kay Stewart Collection of Akron, I

found an earlier copy of this mini Grapevine. It is orange and white and has

pictures of Bill & Bob rather than the sketches in the newer copy.



They were loaded with AA History and make for an easy introduction to AA

History for someone new to AA.

Does anyone know the history of this mini-Grapevine? When & Why they were

produced and why they were stopped .





Question #2-

I have 3 copies of "The Best of Bill"-from The Grapevine

The earliest are 5 separate pamphlets in a packet. They are Faith,

Fear,Honesty,Humility, and Love. It shows July 1965 as a publishing date.

The middle one is a single booklet, blue gray in color and on the first

page says"NOTE: The statistics on pages 4 and 5 were current in 1961. AA

membership is now estimated to be close to two million worldwide."

It shows copyrights of 1958,1961,1962,1986,1989,and 1990.

The latest is book like and has a foreword that says "In 1988, as a

result of the many requests over the years for the reprints of five of these

articles--"Faith", "Fear", "Honesty", "Humility"and "Love"--a Collection

entitled "The Best of Bill was Compiled"

Were there more than these three publications of this Grapevine edition?

It appears that there may have been one from 1961.



Yours in Service'

Shakey Mike Gwirtz

Phila, Pa. USA

Please remember the 13th NAW in Sept on the left coast. It's our

workshop..bring someone new.


0 -1 0 0
5682 momaria33772
Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book Publishing the 24 Hour book 5/8/2009 5:38:00 PM


Hi Charlie,

Each year Delegates are assigned to various committees within the Conference.

Those committees are comprised of Delegates, Trustees and the GSO Staff.



When the 4th Edition was being prepared, it was decided to keep working copies

down to as few people as possible. There were fears that if everyone reviewed

the work in process some stories might get out and our Copyright might get

compromised. Therefore the Literature Committee members were the ones who saw

the final copy and sent a recommendation to approve it to the full Conference.

The 2001 Conference approved and it was sent to publication. I was fortunate to

know the Delegate from my Area who was on that literature Committee and I know

that she took her responsibility very seriously and did the very best she could

in the review and approval process.



Once the book came out, the fellowship found some things they didn't like. In

2002, some members objected to the sentence in the Forward to the Fourth Edition

that said "Fundamentally, though, the differnce between an electronic meeting

and the home group around the corner is only one of format". Many of our members

disagreed with this assesment. The Literature Committee recommended that the

sentence be deleted. The 2002 Conference agreed and the Forward was changed.



One of the goals for the Fourth Edition was to keep it roughly the same size

while introducing new stories to help new people relate. In the process, some

existing stories were edited and punctuation was updated. As people read the

book, some noticed the differences in their favorite stories. At the 2003

Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring "The

Housewife Who Drank At Home", Me, An Alcoholic?", "Another Chance", and "Freedom

From Bondage" to the Third Edition version.



There had been an earlier Conference Advisory Action saing that Dr. Bob's story

should not be changed without written permission of 3/4 of all registered

groups. The punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" had been updated from the Third

Edition version. Many of us thought that was within the spirit of that Advisory

Action since it did not change the content and since that kind of editing had

occurred in earlier editions. Some members submitted an Agenda item because they

thought that even minor changes violated the previous Advisory Action and that

no Conference had approved the specific changes. At the 2004 Conference, the

Literature Committee recommended against restoring the punctuation in "Dr. Bob's

Nightmare" to that of the Third Edition. When this recommendation came to the

Conference, A Floor Action was submitted and the full Conference overrode the

Literature Committee. When our Delegate gave his Conference report he told us

that he was prepared to vote against the change in accordance with the wishes of

many of us in the area. He finally voted for the Floor Action because he saw

that it was an issue that was deviding AA and while he had an obligation to our

Area, he had a bigger obligation to AA as a whole. I was never so proud of

someone who disagreed with me as I was that day.



I also saw a post that said that Hazeldon also edits and changes publications.

While that may be true, the point that I was making is that the if AA were to

accept a book for publication, the author would no longer own it. The fellowship

could change it in significant ways without even consulting the original author.

This includes content as well as grammer or punctuation.



My wife and I are tapers from the St. Pete, Florida area. We have a lot of

people with 50 Plus years of sobriety. When I record them at a group anniversary

or at their anniversary, I will sometime send a copy to the GSO Archives. I

always have to provide a release to GSO. Theoretically this gives them the right

to splice it any way they wish. Of course, I don't expect them to do that. It is

just that I have given up all rights just as the author of a book would have to

do.



Jim H



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Parker" <charlieparker@...>

wrote:

>

> What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare

> and which foreword was changed??

>

> Charlie Parker

> Ace Golf Netting

> 828 Wagon Trail

> Austin, TX 78758

> Toll free 877-223-6387

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: momaria33772

> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:51 PM

>

> I'd like to share one other thought I have had

> every time anyone has brought up publishing of

> any materials like these. Would the people who

> love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to

> have it changed at some future Delegate

> Conference based on some objection that

> someone in my home group had and got submitted

> to the Conference Agenda?

>

> For those who don't believe that could happen,

> I would point out that both the fourth edition

> versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare

> have been changed based on submissions by

> members and groups in the US and Canada. I

> could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour

> Book being radically different from the one

> originally published.

>

> Jim H.

>


0 -1 0 0
5683 Glenn Chesnut
Richmond Walker''s Life Richmond Walker''s Life 5/8/2009 6:01:00 PM


Richmond Walker's own autobiographical memoir:



http://hindsfoot.org/rwvt.html



(Bill Pittman thought that this was a transcript

of a lead which Rich gave in Rutland, Vermont in

1959, which was the way this was first posted on

the Hindsfoot site.  Mel Barger and I eventually

came to feel, however, that this was more likely

a written memoir composed by Rich at some point.)

 

A short biography of Richmond Walker:



http://hindsfoot.org/rwfla1.html



http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla2.html



http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html



(Based on the preceding memoir plus some of the

autobiographical passages in the Twenty Four

Hour book.)


0 -1 0 0
5684 Arthur S
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/8/2009 5:52:00 PM


Trysh



I can't prove it, but despite the "religious"

claims made by the Conference and others, I

would not discount the potential effect that

acceptance of the 24 Hour book would have had

on the more mundane matter of Bill W's royalty

agreement. The 1951 Conference approved an

increase of Bill's royalties from 10% to 15%.

The final Conference report states:



=============================



"It was reported that the Trustees of the Foundation, following Dr. Bob's death,

had voted to increase Bill's royalty on the Big Book from 10 per cent to 15 per

cent. This author's royalty would also apply to other Books the Trustees are

anxious to have Bill prepare for their consideration in the future. The chairman

reported that Bill insisted that this increase be approved by the General

Service Conference. A motion approving the action of the Trustees was approved

unanimously by the Delegates.



In addition, the Conference approved unanimously a motion recommending to the

Trustees of the Foundation that steps be taken to insure that Bill and Lois

receive book royalties so long as either one shall live. This motion was adopted

after it was disclosed that under the existing arrangement Bill would have no

legal basis for claiming royalties upon the expiration of the Big Book copyright

and that no provision exists for Lois in the event of Bill's prior death.



It was pointed out that, in the original stock set-up of Works Publishing, Inc.,

Bill had assigned royalties to the Foundation. Later, he had turned over to the

Foundation his original 200 shares of stock, whose recent earnings have averaged

$7,000-$8,000 [note: $62,000-$71,000 in 2008 dollars] annually. Thus, at one

period Bill had neither stock or royalties.



Prior to World War II, Bill had an average weekly income of about $30 [note:

$455 in 2008 dollars] from proceeds of the "Rockefeller dinners." Later he

received a drawing account of $25 a week, enabling him and Lois to move to

Bedford Hills (N.Y.).



When war broke out, with the possibility that he might be recalled to active

duty, Bill suggested, on the basis of his authorship of the Big Book, that he be

granted a royalty on book sales, as a means of providing income for Lois. This

has been Bill's only source of income, with one exception, since that time. The

Trustees have repeatedly offered to place him on a salaried basis, but these

offers have been declined.



The "exception" occurred several years ago when it was discovered that Bill's

annual income for the preceding seven years that averaged $1,730---slightly more

than $32. a week. The Trustees thereupon made a grant to Bill equivalent to

$1,500 for each of those seven years, out of which he was able to purchase his

Bedford Hills house.



Inflation and the decline in book sales have combined to cut Bill's income

practically in half in the past year. The five per cent increase in royalty

means that his earnings will once more approximate those of three years ago.



The possible implications of "professionalism" in his relation to the movement

have troubled him deeply, Bill reported. He concluded that there was "no other

way to go on" and that as long as he is devoting his full time to the movement,

even though he would not object to a hair shirt himself, "he had no business

putting one on Lois."



=============================



It seems that it would have been very awkward (at best) for Bill to justify

claims to royalties on his yet-to-be-written works when one of the most popular

books circulating in the Fellowship was being offered gratis. That's just

speculation on my part but it seems plausible. I'd suggest the same

consideration for the "Little Red Book" (one of my favorites).



Cheers

Arthur



-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of Glenn Chesnut

Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 3:04 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers group

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion



From: "trysh travis" <trysh.travis@gmail.com>

(trysh.travis at gmail.com)



I'd like to politely disagree about the role

religion played in the Conference decision not

to approve *24 Hours a Day.* I have seen

Richmond Walker's correspondence with the GSO

and Literature Committee members on this matter

at the Archives in New York, and it is fairly

clear there that religiosity was an issue.



In a letter to O.K.P. dated 18 Feb. 1954,

Walker wrote angrily about the rebuff he'd

received from the Conference. Describing the

official response to the proposal that "AA

Publishing should accept the publication

rights to the book *24 Hours a Day,*" Walker

claimed that "favoring this proposal, the

statement is made: 'The Book is accepted and

used by a number of AAs who say they find it

helpful.'" In opposing this proposal, two

statements are made. One is, 'If a precedent

is set, through acceptance of this offer, how

would the movement be able to deal with the

problem of many other booklets, for which

Conference approval would undoubtedly be

sought?....' The 2nd Statement is 'Since the

booklet is regarded by some as having religious

overtones, how could the movement justify its

entrance into a field of publishing in which

misinterpretation and misunderstanding could

arise?'"



After noting somewhat snippily that *24 Hours*

is a "book," not a "booklet," Walker goes on to

respond to what must have been a delegate's

or a committee's "statements" at some length:



"This book carefully refrains from any mention

of religion, and it has no more 'religious

overtones' than the Big Book. It is largely

spiritual and inspirational, but so is the

book 'Alcoholics Anonymous.' ... There is no

mention of religion in the whole book, for

instance, the word 'Christ' or 'Jesus' is

never mentioned, nor is it ever advised that

we go to church. Where then, is the 'religion'?

... we have a spiritual program" why try to

deny it? ... I do not think that either of

these statements opposing the proposal have

been fairly stated, nor do I think that they

have any basis in fact."



(RW to OKP, Box 73, Folder C.)



We lack a "smoking gun" where someone explicitly

states "AAWSO does not want to take over

publication of the book because it is too

religious," but the content of this letter

makes it pretty clear, I think, that Walker

got that message.



Further, in a response to an "Ask-It Basket"

question at the 1968 Conference, "Why can't we

have a 24-Hour book printed by G.S.O.?" the

statement was made that "The 'Twenty-Four Hours

a Day' book was offered to A.A.W.S. some years

ago. The Conference then felt it was too

spiritually or religiously oriented. A.A.W.S.

would be reluctant to put out a similar book.

since it has no wish to compete with this book.

"The A.A. Way of Life' seems to serve the

same need." (Conference Report 1968, p. 27).



I think it is important to note this evidence

of uneasiness with Walker's religiosity. The

logistical and procedural reasons the Conference

had for declining the book were real, but so

was a skittishness about the book's palpable

Christian overtones.



I say they are "palpable" because while Walker

is correct that Christ, Jesus, and church are

never mentioned in *24 Hours,* it routinely

alludes to and quotes from the Christian Bible.



(I'm just skimming through my copy at random

here .... Quote from St. Paul, 26 April;

references to parable of the Prodigal Son,

12-13 March; quote from Mark 13:13, "he that

endureth to the end, the same shall be saved,"

19 Feb, etc.) Walker is clearly drawing on

many other spiritual sources-- including, as

Glenn has pointed out elsewhere, the "New

Thought" beliefs he probably developed in the

Emmanuel Movement in Boston. Even if it

doesn't dominate the book, however, there is

a clear pattern of Christian imagery and

language present, enough that Walker's claim

that "there is no mention of religion" seems

a bit naive, and also enough, I think, so that

reasonable people might find the book too

"religious."



I discuss why the Conference might've been

particularly concerned about this issue in the

mid-1950s in my forthcoming book (which, as

some of you know, I have been working on for

MANY 24 hours!). We're still a few months

away from the publication date, but you can

get a preview of the finished product here:



http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647.



Trysh T.


0 -1 0 0
5685 John Barton
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/8/2009 6:32:00 PM


We should also remember that Bill inserted

various "Christian Bible" snippets in both the

Big Book and the Twelve and Twelve. It also

appears as though he used significant Christian

thought although veiled in his discussions of

"foundations and cornerstones" in Chapter 4

and elsewhere.

 

AA and its early literature were very "spiritual"

(i.e non-denominational religious) in nature 

and AA is the fruit of a tree that was called

the Oxford Group, a "First Century Christian

Fellowship".

 

Bill also quoted the bible regularly in his

private correspondence.

 

God Bless

 

John B.



- - - -



From: "Rich Foss" <rich.foss@comcast.net>

(rich.foss at comcast.net)



It is interesting to note that the first prayer

in the 24 hour book is a Sanskrit proverb.

Does that suggest that it is a translation of

a Hindu prayer?



- - - -



From: Jared Lobdell <jlobdell54@hotmail.com>

(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)



Both GOD CALLING and GOD AT EVENTIDE (same two

listeners) are available now, and GOD CALLING

has been a staple of Christian publishers

(including Spire and Revell) for the last

-- what? -- three quarters of a century? We

know Bill didn't care to link AA too closely

to the OG (MRA, whatever) -- not sure any

other reason is needed for his opposing (and

thus AA's opposing) a book based on a well-known

OG book.



- - - -



From: Glenn C. <glennccc@sbcglobal.net>

(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)



Jared,



Other than the automatic writing, what

distinctive Oxford Group doctrines do you

see in God Calling by Two Listeners, which

Richmond Walker copied over into Twenty-Four

Hours a Day?



Other than the automatic writing, I have

never found anything in God Calling that

seemed to me to be an identifiably Oxford

Group idea: no talk of the Four Absolutes,

no Five C's, no statement of the necessity

of making restitution, no confession by the

Two Listeners of their own sins. And most

importantly, no indication that the Two

Listeners had ever attended Oxford Group

meetings themselves.



Glenn


0 -1 0 0
5686 jenny andrews
24 Hour Book 24 Hour Book 5/9/2009 4:30:00 AM


Since the 24 Hour book (like the Bible!)

is not Conference-approved, how did sending

profits from its sale to GSO (between 1948

and 1954, when it was being printed under

the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA

Group) square with Tradition Seven?



Laurie A.


0 -1 0 0
5687 Bill Lash
Mike Wallace Interview with Lillian Roth (1956) Mike Wallace Interview with Lillian Roth (1956) 5/9/2009 2:03:00 PM


The interview may be seen on your computer as a video at:



http://solstice.ischool.utexas.edu/tmwi/index.php/Lillian_Roth



- - - -



A TRANSCRIPT OF THIS VIDEO:



THE MIKE WALLACE INTERVIEW

Guest: Lillian Roth

Saturday, April 5, 1958

WALLACE: Good evening. Tonight we go after the latest chapter in the story of

a woman who fought her way back from alcoholism and despair, to become again

one of the most compelling figures in show business. She is Lillian Roth, a

million dollar film star at eighteen, an alcoholic at thirty, a great torch

singer only five years ago and today a woman with a new story to tell.



If you're curious to know why Lillian Roth says that the past five years have

been among the most difficult in her life, if you want to hear her thoughts on

her conversion to Catholicism, and if you want to know why Miss Roth says that

despite her recent success, she is forever trying to fill what she calls an

aching, a frightening void within herself, we'll go after those stories in just

a moment. My name is Mike Wallace, the cigarette is Parliament.



(OPENING CREDITS)



WALLACE: We'll talk with Lillian Roth in just a moment.



(COMMERCIAL)



WALLACE: And now to our story. Several years ago, an all but forgotten

entertainer by the name of Lillian Roth, wrote a brutally frank autobiography

called I'll Cry Tomorrow. It was made into a successful Hollywood film. Miss

Roth herself was swamped with offers to appear in television, nightclubs.

Since then Miss Roth has forged a new life, which she has written about in a new

book, to be published later this month, called Beyond My Worth.



Lillian, first of all, let me ask you this: After your remarkable comeback a

few years ago I'd imagine that the general public's impression of you is that

of a happy and successful woman, who has finally found her way. Yet, in your

new book, Beyond My Worth you wrote this: you said: "I've had mornings recently

when I woke up and my whole life seemed in chaos and I've said to myself, I've

fallen back... I've fallen back again." Why have you felt that way?



ROTH: Well, Mike, I guess it's something that stems from my childhood. I've

never quite felt up to of the many amazing things that happened to me. I've

never felt at school that I was as pretty as the next child, or as clever as the

next child, and anytime anything happens to me, I just thought it was luck.

And that was mostly all through my life, and if I did a performance and the

audience were wonderful to me, I thought it really wasn't good enough, it could

have been better. I've never felt quite adequate, and because...



WALLACE: And so even now, in spite of the fact that you have overcome what

obstacles you have overcome...



ROTH: Well, you see, when I say: Beyond My Worth, I honestly feel I haven't

done anything extraordinary. The public has been amazing. I've gotten mail

from all over the world you'd think I was a miracle woman. And I'm not! It's

through these people and with the help of God that I have been able to overcome

so much, but the inadequacy and the guilt within me is still very strong and

many times I feel I'm just not what they... I'm not what I seem to be.



WALLACE: I gather that you find a real responsibility, an awesome

responsibility in the very fact of your comeback.



ROTH: I think that the battle of success is probably more difficult than the

climb. People expect too much from you -- or rather, you want to be all that

people expect from you, I shouldn't say that they expect too much of me because

they're pretty good about it -- But it isn't only that you have to deliver the

gift of your entertainment as the good Lord gifted you, but there are other

things in your life and I've never professed to be a saint or a martyr. There

are many people in the world overcoming greater problems which I tell of in

Beyond My Worth. But comparatively speaking, mine seems simple, but this inner

conflict, this inner thing that I have, I think too telling the truth about it

makes people realize that they're not alone. You see people used to be able to

say, "Lillian, let me help you up," after I took that first long step alone.



WALLACE: Yes.



ROTH: But now, through the mail I've started to feel that people were

wondering if they could talk up there to me. And I'm not up there; I don't

want to be up there where the people are concerned only as a performer. I want

to be right alongside with them.



WALLACE: You get a tremendous number of letters, I gather, calls from people

who are also in a kind of pain, and trying to find their way and figure you've

done it, and perhaps you can help them to find it for themselves.



ROTH: Well, I... it isn't just problem letters I get. After all I'm not the

know-all, see-all, and I haven't the answer to everything, but the type mail I

get comes from psychiatrists, doctors, writers, priests, ministers, and there

are lonely ministers, nuns, and priests all over the world and I can read

between their lines too, and they think that this certainly shows the grace of

God being bestowed and my difference of course is that I don't think God graces

one person and not the next. But I am very grateful for their affection.



WALLACE: Tell me this: Does the fear of sliding back, of hitting rock-bottom

again, does that worry you, or do you feel you're over that hump?



ROTH: Well, they say that... I mean, even if you should slip back a little, it

isn't really slipping back. If you fall slightly, that's just another step up.

I mean to step down is to step up. Sometimes we're forced to be knocked down a

little bit, and then we gather our forces together, and we're that much

stronger when we go again. I don't think... I think once you've hit the bottom

you're not afraid down there. You just feel you don't want to disappoint

people.



WALLACE: Of course one of the things that sparked your comeback was your book,

I'll Cry Tomorrow... and I'm sure this latest book, which is also quite

revealing, will do your career no harm. Let me ask you this: Did you never

think it undignified, Lillian; did you never think it in bad taste for a woman

to write so candidly of her personal life and of the life of others?



ROTH: Truthfully, I wasn't happy about any of it... I think I told you when I

spoke to you a year ago... there's no glory in being a glorified alcoholic. If

these were the steps I had to take, and there seemed to be a force that worked

it out... I know when I first worked on my book coming from Australia 10 years

ago, and through the years -- speaking of I'll Cry Tomorrow -- I shelved it. I

closed the book and said: 'That woman!'



But after this is your life, After Ralph had prevailed on me, and even there I

didn't want to do it. I was hesitant. It was terrible panic when I first went

to Australia. It... it just isn't a good feeling to know that you have other

gifts, but I rated what was done. I mean, I rated the fact that I didn't

deserve any better than to be called an alcoholic and I don't know why I should

have expected extra...



WALLACE: But, why did you want to write about it? Why did you want to tell

and, and not only about yourself, but you wrote fairly graphically about, for

instance, about being beaten by one husband, about your wedding night with

another husband, a fairly prominent man, about emotional scenes with your

mother. Why have... why did you find it necessary to write about these things?



ROTH: Well I didn't feel that I was writing an expose, I felt I was disclosing

rather than exposing. My husband felt from the inception that if I wrote

everything out... I remember when I first went to a hospital for slightly

mentally unbalanced, from 12, 13 years ago, I said even then I wanted to write a

book... but then they told me everybody that comes in here has a book to write.

So I kept it to myself for some time. But Bert told me it isn't a case of being

a martyr. He said this, "In telling all and freeing yourself, and the world

being a big jury, they're very fair; and in doing that, maybe somebody along to

this will be helped." I'm not going to tell you that my thought was I'm going

to go out and be a martyr now and help the world. I didn't feel that way; I was

frightened to death when this book came out.



WALLACE: Diana Barrymore, who wrote a somewhat similar book, told us that she

did it as a catharsis to get the past out of her system. Was that...? You

smile when I say that.



ROTH: Well, I really... I'm not living my past any more. I'm creating new

thoughts and new habits. A priest once told me, this may answer it by a

thought, that there are certain bad characteristics or formation of a bad

character that is always there with bad habits, but you can create good habits

and work on them so often that you form a new character and I feel that if...

I'm not speaking, necessarily about Miss Barrymore, but anyone that continues to

live as they lived in the past, isn't doing anything to send out a message or

to help someone in distress. Not that they have to. But what is the sense of

the book? If you're going to go to all this embarrassment, you might be

helpful while doing it. And I... I think it has... well, I shouldn't speak

about what it's proven, but it has helped many people be able to overcome

certain pain that they've had.



WALLACE: I'm certain of that. Have you ever wondered, though, why the

American public seems to be so fascinated with this kind of story? Is it

possibly just the desire to look... to look across the courtyard into somebody

else's open window?



ROTH: Well, I think where my story is concerned, it goes back to an old

philosophy that I read that said, "In each man's heart there's a secret sorrow

that the world knows nothing about." And often we call a man 'cold' when he's

really just sad. And I think that humanity feels that their sorrow is for you

and their compassion is for you, but it has touched a part of their hearts that

they will not open the door themselves. They won't even begin... and in the

subconscious the tie is there...



WALLACE: They see a little of themselves in you and that is why they want to

read and hear and...



ROTH: Yes, and... and even youngsters that write to me, they tell me they

understand the problems at home more and I just think it's reached, that's all.



WALLACE: Let's look at some of the things you write about. One of them, which

helped you rehabilitate yourself, has been religion. In your new book, you

write with complete assurance... "God loves me." How do you know He does?



ROTH: Because I think God is all loving, just as a parent would be, that they

love their children good, bad or indifferent. And it's often been said, I

believe, sum and substance of the Bible is that little black sheep that strayed

away, that worries him so very much, He hopes it will come back some day.



WALLACE: Lillian, who is God?



ROTH: God is everything that's quite wonderful and the... you know I always

quote because I think that the authenticity of a thing... After all I'm a new

writer, I don't even know if I have a great talent except of telling of myself

and giving of myself. But a man like Emerson says that God made... almost

everything He made had a crack in it... and I thought that was such a good

thought. We have... we don't have this feeling of perfection, but to please Him

we'd like to improve ourselves. And I think he's all loving and he's always

there, we just don't always know it.



WALLACE: Let me pursue this a little more specifically. You were born into a

Jewish family, yet several years ago you converted to Catholicism. Why was

Judaism apparently unsatisfactory, unfulfilling for you?



ROTH: Oh, I don't think that Judaism was a case of unfulfillment, I think that

Catholicism is a fulfillment of Judaism as far as the acceptance of the

Messiah. It... My only difficulty has been in the last two years with all my

respect to the Church because it doesn't make me right and the Church wrong, I

can't go in and say now this is Lillian's way of doing it. I just felt that

certain man made dogma little things simple as a child. They say "Come as

little children." Well, some of the little flaws or that I felt were flaws,

flaws within myself -- the question -- were child like things, and I have never

denied my Judaism and as a matter of fact, I learned...



WALLACE: But how -- wait -- How can you convert from Judaism to Catholicism

and yet not deny your Judaism?



ROTH: Well, of course, I have a different theory. I believe that an

Irishman's an Irishman, a Jew is a Jew, an American-Irishman, American Jew. I

can't see saying that it is merely a religion, I don't go along with that. I

think Christ on the Cross which I spoke to you last time was a Jew who never

denied his Judaism and Christian came from the word "Follower of Christ" and so

therefore that's an acceptance of the Jewish Messiah and he stated he came to

fulfill the law, so I don't see where there's a denial of Judaism or... how can

you deny what you are?



WALLACE: You didn't feel the least bit disloyal when you turned from Judaism

as a religion to Catholicism as a religion?



ROTH: Well, in this way, the physical sense, the material sense, I do believe

there is a time in the Bible that Christ says that "They will mock you in my

name sake and that..." and it did come in the minority. People were very good

about it, they didn't care how I found God as long as I had Him, but I don't

think there was too much resentment. I did have feelings of guilt but I would

have to rise above it and try to get into a spiritual way and to my own self be

true. You know Mike, they wrote about you in the LaGorian which Father Clyber

who is a Jew and a priest convert to Catholicism and he sends me the LaGorian

and it's strange, a few weeks ago they had an article where you asked the

Catholic Church some questions.



WALLACE: Yes.



ROTH: While I was reading it, I also read an article about the face... Five

Faces of a Hypocryte and I thought to myself, one of the things were those that

professed to be a Christian, you know, and wear the face of a hypocrite, and I

thought that went along with my thinking, that if I were to take and to

continue taking sacraments, at a time when I felt in the eyes of God, I didn't

go along with it, I would be wearing that face of a hypocrite. And, although

I'm lonely, not belonging at the moment...



WALLACE: You... Have you forsaken Catholicism now?



ROTH: Well I... I hope God hasn't forsaken me, that's the main point and I

feel that in conscience I can look up to Him and that what is right to do, he

will lead me to. One wonderful thing about the Catholics and the Catholic

Church, and my own people too is that they don't desert you, you may desert them

but they say you shall be back. But I think it's along the lines of wherever

the good Lord wants you, that's where you'll be.



WALLACE: You were a member of Alcoholics Anonymous?



ROTH: Yes.



WALLACE: Did you regard that...? -- are you still a member of AA?



ROTH: Well I follow the principles. I believe with AA, of course I don't

advise this for a newcomer, but I think just as you get well, after you come out

of a hospital, I don't think that you have to sit in the hospital, come back

every day; I think you use the medicines and in this case it's the suggestions

and principles of AA.



WALLACE: Did you regard...? -- Do members of AA regard it themselves as kind

of a religion?



ROTH: No, to the best of my knowledge, they believe that AA will direct people

back to their own religions or give them some spiritual contact with God.



WALLACE: Back in 1955, one of the co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous wrote a

thought provoking pamphlet in which he warned former alcoholics against,

resuming what he called, quote: "our old and disastrous pursuit of personal

power and prestige, public honors and money." He suggested that these are

egotistical, self-seeking ephemeral things and if the alcoholic or the former

alcoholic were to lose them again, that could shatter a person all over again.

Now you are a fairly ambitious woman. Do you ever feel that perhaps you're

pushing... pursuing the dangerous course now in going after prestige, money,

public honor once again?



ROTH: Well I'm pretty sure that when the good Lord put us on this earth, he

knew that there were human footsteps to take and he certainly doesn't want us

to be a ward of a state. Whatever our job is, whether we're a truck driver and

go back to trucking, or a waitress go back to the waitress. Every job is

important in life and mine was to go back to singing and as I said earlier,

there's no glory in it. Now, these rules that you read; you see, when I joined

AA there was no such thing as a rule. There were suggestions. I wasn't

anonymous, I... when I was drinking, of course, and I didn't wish this type

publicity but I have found the press to be fair. I've said it over and over

again: it came out and they could just, as well, have gone to the morgue and dug

up any story. I don't think that there is glory in saying: Look, I want a lot

of gold stars; I want to be up in lights 'cause I'm a cured alcoholic. I mean,

it's a little bit ridiculous, I feel that I'm now after 5 years or 12 years that

I have had my sobriety, free from the bonds of sympathy. I don't feel if the

public comes back three and four times or I'm asked to appear places that many

times that they come back to see what an alcoholic that doesn't drink anymore

looks like.



WALLACE: Lillian in a moment I'd like to ask you about something that you

write of quite movingly in your new book. You write, "All people go through

life with a void inside them." You write that even love and marriage probably

doesn't vanish entirely that feeling of aloneness, of lostness; you say, "The

void seems to remain during life." I'd like to know why you say that. And

we'll get Lillian Roth's answer in just 60 seconds.



(COMMERCIAL)



WALLACE: Lillian, in your book you write, "Within us, there seems to be an

aching, a frightening void we are forever trying to fill but never quite do.

We're always alone." What do you mean?



ROTH: You've never felt that feeling?



WALLACE: Uh-huh.



ROTH: Well, with the hundreds of people, the thousands of people I've met,

it's a strange empathy I guess I get and maybe at times contrary to belief, I'm

subject to a slight melancholia but I look across a room at a person and somehow

the way the shoulder is, a certain look in his face, the age of the face, I

know that the man has lived a life that hasn't had any great joy in it but he's

worked very hard. I never saw Death of a Salesman but I imagine the expression

that I've seen on the pictures of that man's face, I've seen in so many faces

and you want to go over and say, "Oh, I want to do something, say something to

you."



And also I feel that when two people love each other and are married, the ache

of loneliness for someone that's gone that you wish could be part of this and

they're not there anymore to see it, your parents or your loved ones can see all

this, and also if you have your separate little problems and you don't want to

put it on one another. You don't want to tell the fears. Lots of times, --

and Bert probably is watching tonight, he's in California, he hasn't been too

well and it's our first time we've been apart in 12 years but you see we're not

really apart -- but a lot of times does that void... he may have an ache or

pain, he says, "I don't want to tell Lillian." I may have a certain worry, I

think he almost made me come to New York so that I wouldn't be there to worry;

but it's not just me or just Bert, it's... I don't know whether it's a longing

to a return properly, Freud said: to the mother... the original birth state or

to a humanity and those of the Church who are so longing to return to God, but

we are surely never complete here on this earth.



WALLACE: Are you going to...? -- Do you believe that you will find your

completeness after life?



ROTH: Oh well, I certainly hope and I feel like I'm on the verge of some

discovery and I don't like to delve too much because I don't want to go back to

Bloomingdale's, they'll say this gal is odd, but I know that Lecomte du Noüy you

recall the book that fascinated me so, the physicist that wrote Human Destiny,

he said that the odd person of today is just the normal person, you know a

century from now when you have these dreams and ideals. And I think all those

wonderful stars and planets that we're trying to reach so hard, we're going to

sit all around them one day in the hereafter and those will be the different

stages until we'll reach our final place.



WALLACE: You mentioned Freud. Have you ever thought about analysis?



ROTH: Well I did have a doctor, A. A. Bill who passed away... sent me to the

original place to rest my little mind when I was thirty-four years old and up

there they didn't believe in my particular case that there should be deep

analysis. They feel that it takes about a year and a half and if you can't

discover what's wrong in a year and a half, that's bad. And if it takes any

longer, it's real bad. If there's nothing wrong, there will be something wrong

and I don't mean to interfere with the psychoanalysis but that was Doctor Bill's

advice where I was concerned.



WALLACE: Lillian, when you add it all up, all of the tragic things that have

happened to you, all of the unhappiness that rarely comes to one human being,

and I ask this question perfectly seriously, have you ever or do you now ever

regret the fact that you were born?



ROTH: No, no. Look I knew my mother and I knew my father and so many

wonderful people, I think it's all been worth it. I think I have a greater

appreciation for life than I ever had with all my little hesitancies, a greater

gratitude. I'm gradually learning more compassion and understanding and I just

hope I can be. I don't intend to be or hope to be a saint but I hope I can, in

some measure, repay the good that's come to me. And, I don't mean that as a

Pollyanna or Little Orphan Annie glad all over, Annie Rooney, is that it? I

just think that I... I think life has been very good to me and it takes those

steps to give you that appreciation.



WALLACE: Lil, what makes you happiest?



ROTH: Well I don't think that there's any way to judge a complete happiness.

I don't think there's such a thing as "happiness". I know my little dogs

though, you know our two little dogs out on the coast, and I got very

lonesome... Do you think I have time to...?



WALLACE: I'm sorry we only have about fifteen seconds.



ROTH: Oh... well I have the cutest little things about dogs. I think that we

all get a great joy from the animals... one thing in the world that loves you

without question.



WALLACE: Lillian, thank you for coming and spending this half hour and I know

lots of people who want to read your new book Beyond My Work.



ROTH: Thank you, Mike.



WALLACE: Few come back stories have been as compelling as Lillian Roth's,

perhaps because it seems to be a story that has no end, no artificial happy

conclusion. Miss Roth's comeback has been in the truest sense the search for

her self. It has also been an inspiration for other searchers. I'll be back

in a moment with a rundown on next week's guest, one of the world's youngest and

most embattled diplomats from one of the world's youngest and most embattled

countries.



(COMMERCIAL)



WALLACE: Next week we go after the story of violence in the Middle East, the

threat to world peace from hostility between the Arabs and Israel. Our guest

will be the Israeli Ambassador to the United States and the United Nations, Abba

Eban. If you're curious to know Ambassador Eban's answer to the Arab charge

that Israel endangers world peace through a policy of war like expansion, and

his reply to the Arab statement that his country, Israel must eventually go

bankrupt, we'll go after those stories on the eve of Israel's tenth anniversary

as a nation next week. Till then for Parliament, Mike Wallace. Good night.



ANNCR: The Mike Wallace Interview has been brought to you by the new High

Filtration Parliament. Parliament! Now for the first time at popular price.



(CLOSING CREDITS)


0 -1 0 0
5688 Glenn Chesnut
Travis, Language of the Heart Travis, Language of the Heart 5/9/2009 4:26:00 PM


By Trysh Travis



The Language of the Heart: A Cultural History

of the Recovery Movement from Alcoholics

Anonymous to Oprah Winfrey



University of North Carolina Press, January 2010



http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647



In The Language of the Heart Trysh Travis

explores the rich cultural history of

Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and its offshoots

and the larger "recovery movement" that has

grown out of them. Moving from AA's beginnings

in the mid-1930s as a men's fellowship that

met in church basements to the thoroughly

commercialized addiction treatment centers

of today, Travis chronicles the development

of recovery and examines its relationship to

the broad American tradition of self-help,

highlighting the roles that gender, mysticism,

and print culture have played in that

development.



Travis draws on hitherto unexamined materials

from AA's archives as well as a variety of

popular recovery literatures. Her analysis

traces AA's embrace of the concept of addiction

as disease, the rise of feminist sobriety

discourse and the codependence theories of

the 1970s and 80s, and Oprah Winfrey's

turn-of-the-millennium popularization of

metaphysical healing. What unites these varied

cultures of recovery, Travis argues, is their

desire to offer spiritual solutions to problems

of gender and power.



Treating self-help seekers as individuals whose

intellectual and aesthetic traditions are worth

excavating, The Language of the Heart is the

first book to attend to the evolution and

variation found within the recovery movement

and to treat recovery with the attention to

detail that its complexity requires.

 

- - - -

 

Referred to in:

 

Message #5678



Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion



From: "trysh travis" <trysh.travis@gmail.com>

(trysh.travis at gmail.com)


0 -1 0 0
5689 jenny andrews
Re: Travis, Language of the Heart Travis, Language of the Heart 5/9/2009 7:53:00 AM


Dear Trysh,



I've been following historylovers correspondence re 24 Hour book and read yr

contribution with interest; I also look forward to reading "The Language of the

Heart", the same title that the Grapevine gave to its compilation of Bill W's

writings, which might confuse some AA's!



The blurb says your book records, inter alia, "AA's embrace of the concept of

addiction as disease." Apart from the fact that AA sticks to its experience of

alcoholism and does not generalise about the nature of addiction, let me quote

my letter which was published in the March 2004 Grapevine, viz: "The November

2003 Grapevine loosely conflates disease with illness. The first 164 pages of

the Big Book refer to alcoholism as illness or malady, rather than disease. As

Bill W. said, when he addressed the National Clergy Conference on Alcoholism in

1960, 'We (AA) have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically

speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as

heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments or combinations of

them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Hence, we did not wish to get

in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism as a disease

entity. Therefore, we call it an illness, or malady - a far safer term for us to

use.' A few years ago, the General Service Office in New York said in a letter

to me: 'Our role as a society of recovered alcoholics helping others does not

endow us with any mediacal or scientific stature. Therefore, the issue of a

medical determination of a disease is something on which AA could not have a

position.' If a physician said I had the disease of diabetes and that my only

hope of recovery was a spiritual awakening, I would demand a second opinion. We

can use disease as a metaphor for alcoholism, as in 'other spiritual diseases'

(Big Book); but given the different theories about the causes of alcoholism, the

Fellowship would do well not to claim any special medical expertise and thus

avoid being drawn into this controversy, as Tradition Ten suggests." (saved on

Grapevine digital archive).



The distinction between disease and illness is explored in John Crossan's book,

"Jesus: a revolutionary biography" - Harper Collins.



Treatment centres have their own reasons for claiming all addictions are the

same, and that alcoholism is a disease. It would be unfortunate if your book

suggested AA took the same view.



Abundant blessings,



Laurie A. (DOS 8/10/84)



- - - -



Original Message #5688



By Trysh Travis



The Language of the Heart: A Cultural History

of the Recovery Movement from Alcoholics

Anonymous to Oprah Winfrey



University of North Carolina Press, January 2010



http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=1647



In The Language of the Heart Trysh Travis

explores the rich cultural history of

Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and its offshoots

and the larger "recovery movement" that has

grown out of them. Moving from AA's beginnings

in the mid-1930s as a men's fellowship that

met in church basements to the thoroughly

commercialized addiction treatment centers

of today, Travis chronicles the development

of recovery and examines its relationship to

the broad American tradition of self-help,

highlighting the roles that gender, mysticism,

and print culture have played in that

development.



Travis draws on hitherto unexamined materials

from AA's archives as well as a variety of

popular recovery literatures. Her analysis

traces AA's embrace of the concept of addiction

as disease, the rise of feminist sobriety

discourse and the codependence theories of

the 1970s and 80s, and Oprah Winfrey's

turn-of-the-millennium popularization of

metaphysical healing. What unites these varied

cultures of recovery, Travis argues, is their

desire to offer spiritual solutions to problems

of gender and power.



Treating self-help seekers as individuals whose

intellectual and aesthetic traditions are worth

excavating, The Language of the Heart is the

first book to attend to the evolution and

variation found within the recovery movement

and to treat recovery with the attention to

detail that its complexity requires.



- - - -



Referred to in:



Message #5678



Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion



From: "trysh travis" <trysh.travis@gmail.com>

(trysh.travis at gmail.com)


0 -1 0 0
5690 Fiona Dodd
Re: Travis, Language of the Heart Travis, Language of the Heart 5/9/2009 4:51:00 PM


Actually disease is mentioned on page 64 of

The Big Book. "Resentment is the "number one

offender". It destroys more alcoholics than

anything else. From it stems all forms of

spiritual disease, for we have been not only

mentally and physically ill, we have been

spiritually sick." And AA number 3, Bill D

uses the expression disease.



Disease, illness, malady? Semantics.



Fiona


0 -1 0 0
5691 Glenn Chesnut
Re: Travis, Language of the Heart Travis, Language of the Heart 5/9/2009 5:09:00 PM


Laurie,



It strikes me that the question of whether

alcoholism was or was not referred to as a

"disease" during the early AA period is a

lot more complicated than you are implying.



- - - -



See for example one of the best modern

sociological studies of Alcoholics Anonymous:



http://hindsfoot.org/kas1.html



Annette R. Smith, Ph.D., "The Social World of

Alcoholics Anonymous: How It Works," with an

introduction by Linda Farris Kurtz, DPA,

Hindsfoot Foundation Series on Treatment and

Recovery (New York: iUniverse, 2007), pp. 74-75.



Annette Smith notes that:



The word "disease" appears only three times

in the A.A. Big Book. It is mentioned first on

page 64 in discussing alcoholism, then again

at the beginning of the second part of the

book in the story of Bill Dotson, the Akron

lawyer who was Alcoholics Anonymous Number

Three. When Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob visited

Dotson in the hospital, they told him he had

"a disease," and when he explained his

conversion to his wife, he told her he felt

that God had cured him "of this terrible

disease." (AAWS, 1976:187-188, 191)



However, in spite of its avoidance of the

specific word "disease," alcoholism is referred

to over and over again throughout the book

as a "sickness," a "malady," and an "ailment,"

and alcoholics are characterized as persons who

are "sick" or "ill." In the Personal Stories

section of the third edition of the Big Book,

one of the subtitles is "How Forty-Three

Alcoholics Recovered From Their Malady." [NOTE 44]



Kurtz (2002:5) states that despite the fact

that "A.A. does not promote the disease concept

of alcoholism," most members refer to their

alcoholism as a disease. However, this can be

regarded more as a metaphor than as a literal

description in the sense in which the word

disease is usually employed in technical medical

terminology (Kurtz, 1979:199-202). Use of this

metaphor removes the stigma generally attached

to alcoholism in society, allowing A.A.

participants to see themselves as "sick"

rather than "bad" (Conrad and Schneider,

1980), and to assume the "sick role" (Parsons,

1952), so that recovery becomes possible. As

will be shown in this chapter, dealing with

and finally accepting this concept is crucial

in enabling newcomers to move through the four

progressive stages of becoming integrated into

A.A.'s social world.



NOTE 44. Sick, sick person, or sickness on

pages 18, 64, 67, 90, 92, 100, 101, 106, 107,

108, 115, 139, 140, 141, 147, 149, 153, 157,

and 164.



Ill or illness on pages 7, 18, 20, 30, 44, 92,

107, 108, 115, 118, 122, 139, 140, and 142.



The words ail or ailment are used on pages 135,

139, 140.



Malady appears on pages 23, 64, 92, 138, 139,

and 165. (AAWS, 1976)



AAWS. 1976. Alcoholics Anonymous. 3rd ed.

New York: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services.

Orig. pub. 1939.



Kurtz, Ernest. 1979. Not-God: A History of

Alcoholics Anonymous. Center City, Minn:

Hazelden.



Kurtz, Ernest. 2002. "Alcoholics Anonymous

and the Disease Concept of Alcoholism."

Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly 20 (Nos. 3/4):

5-40.



Conrad, Peter and Joseph W. Schneider. 1980.

Deviance and Medicalization: From Badness to

Sickness. St. Louis: C.V. Mosby.



Parsons, Talcott and Renee Fox. 1952. "Illness,

Therapy and the Modern Urban American Family."

The Journal of Social Issues 8(4):31-34.



- - - -



It is impossible, I believe, to discuss the

issue of why alcoholism was regarded as a

disease in early AA without a detailed and

careful study of Sally Brown and David R.

Brown, A Biography of Mrs. Marty Mann.



We can start with p. xiii, a citation of

"Imagine Such a Disease" by the President of

the American Medical Society.



And then go on to p. 10, where the Brown's

describe the basic credo which Marty publicized

all over the United States:



"Alcoholism is a disease and the alcoholic

is a sick person.

The alcoholic can be helped and is worth

helping.

This is a public health problem and therefore

a public responsibility."



- - - -



Or let us note how the issue is discussed by

Bill Swegan, the principal spokesman for the

wing of early AA which stressed the psychological

side of AA rather than the spiritual side.



Sgt. Bill Swegan, On the Military Firing Line

in the Alcoholism Treatment Program, pp. 13-15



"Alcoholism is not a behavior problem,

but a very complex disease"



"In the past half century, more has been

accomplished to recognize, define, and

eliminate the stigma associated with alcoholism

than had been brought about in any previous era.

At the heart of this change has been the partial

removal of the old principle of defining

alcoholism by the behavior it produces, and

the progress that has been made in solving

many of the mysteries surrounding the disease.

It is an illness, and this is now recognized

by most health agencies, medical treatment

facilities, and therapists.



Some resistance to the disease concept still

remains however among law enforcement people,

who often still wish to regard it completely

as a behavior problem. And this is also usually

true among the members of the alcoholic's

family. We must not forget that parents,

brothers and sisters, spouses and children,

are the ones who are constantly exposed to

the negative consequences of the alcoholic

behavior. It is difficult indeed for families

to think of alcoholism as a disease, when they

are the ones who are most immediately subjected

to all of the financial and social pressures

caused by the alcoholic family member, and

they are the ones most likely to suffer

physically from the alcoholic's rages and

tantrums and automobile accidents ....



Because even the major components of behavior

differ widely from alcoholic to alcoholic, it

is easy for someone who is an alcoholic to

pretend to himself that he is not. I certainly

did that to myself when I was in my twenties:

convincing me that I was in fact an alcoholic

was a very difficult process, even though when

you read my story, this may seem preposterous.

How could I conceivably not have known, quite

early on, that I was an alcoholic? It was

because people would point at so-and-so, and

say that he was an alcoholic, and I seemed to

myself to be totally different from that person,

in numerous essential ways. Therefore --

I would try to convince myself -- if he is an

alcoholic, then I am not, because I am not

the same as him.



Since alcoholism produces guilt and destroys

the alcoholic's feelings of self-worth, this

produces even greater barriers to responding

in any kind of positive way. If I had to admit

that I had become an alcoholic, then I would

feel even guiltier than I already did back

when I was in my twenties (which was overwhelm-

ingly great), and my almost totally-demolished

sense of self-worth would have been even

further destroyed. So I fought any attempt

by others to try to convince me that I had

a problem with drinking.



We must continue working to educate people

about the true nature of alcoholism. It is

not a behavior problem, and the kind of guilt

I felt about my compulsive drinking was

inappropriate. I had to do something about

it, and I had to do it before I was totally

destroyed by it. But becoming ill is not a

matter for which one should feel guilt, nor

is contracting an illness something which

should shatter one's sense of self-worth. We

do not blame sick people in a civilized society,

but help them to get well again.



And if I myself fall prey to some treatable

disease, from which I could recover by taking

appropriate steps, the intelligent response

is not to feel that I have become worthless,

but to take those steps which I must take to

bring about my recovery."



- - - -



If you want to talk about what Jellinek

believed and said, you have to ask "Jellinek

when?" because he changed his position over

a period of time. But he is most often

remembered for his 1960 book which was

entitled "The Disease Concept of Alcoholism."

 

And Jellinek also means his AA disciples,

like Searcy Whaley in Dallas, Texas, to whom

Bill W. sent Ebby to see if Searcy could get

him sober.



- - - -



What I'm trying to say here is, that if you

want to discuss the question of whether or not

alcoholism is properly to be regarded as a

"disease" or an "illness" or a "malady" (or

as something else entirely), this is perfectly

all right. And we can talk about our own

theories about what is "good AA" and what is

"bad AA."



But once you start talking about "what the Big

Book says" and "what early AA people believed,"

you have to go back and actually read the early

documents, and accurately report what those

folks actually said on that subject.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5692 trysh travis
the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/9/2009 1:12:00 PM


Responding to Art's comment about the impact that "the acceptance of the 24

Hour book would have had on the more mundane matter of Bill W's royalty

agreement," I agree that this was a consideration for the Conference, and I

think comparing the responses Bill (and the delegates, and the New York

office generally) had to *24 Hours* and to *The Little Red Book* is key.



From my reading of the correspondence, I'd say that in both cases, there

were concerns about whether the "spirituality" on offer in the books was

maybe a little too Christian for comfort, combined with anxieties about how

the books' popularity might cut into the revenue generated by Big Book sales

and necessary to keep the work of the GSO alive. Add to this the steady

stream of letters from people who wanted to publish their own guides to AA--

often 12-Step ideas mingled in with suggestions about diet, exercise, or the

power of positive thinking-- and you get an interlocking set of problems

that must've assumed nightmarish proportions.



What impresses me most about this history is the constant willingness to

search for a middle ground for consensus decision-making. "Live and let

live" is a lesson that a lot of big organizations today could benefit from

adopting as their motto!



Trysh T.


0 -1 0 0
5693 azmikefitz
Early black AA members Early black AA members 5/7/2009 10:53:00 PM


--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"hesofine2day" <hesofine2day@...> wrote:

>

> Does anyone know the identity of the first

> black woman in AA?





I am in the process of having and old audio

library digitized, Several of the talks that

I have found are labeled "colored group", one

group was called group #43 and the panel

discusses the steps. Dated 1959. I'll look

for earlier ones.



Mike F.


0 -1 0 0
5694 Shane
Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? 5/13/2009 12:36:00 AM


I live in Upland, California, which is 40 miles east of

Los Angeles. On June 27,2009 we are having a birthday party

for Dick C. of Ontario, Ca. He is 95 yrs old and has 60 yrs

of sobriety. We were told that he is the oldest living

member of AA with 60 yrs of sobriety.



Does anyone know of any other AA member still living who

is that old with 60 yrs or more of sobriety???



His two sons, and the local AA community would like to know.



Shane P.

Area 5 Archivist


0 -1 0 0
5695 marionoredstone
Re: illness vs. disease illness vs. disease 5/9/2009 8:46:00 PM


ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:



From <MarionORedstone@aol.com>

(MarionORedstone at aol.com)



Footnotes from my upcoming book Inside

these Rooms



From E. Kurtz, PhD, Monograph Alcoholics Anonymous

and the Disease Concept of Alcoholism (2000)



In 1938, while preparing the manuscript of the

A.A. Big Book, Bill Wilson asked Dr. Bob Smith

(a proctologist) about the accuracy of referring

to alcoholism as a disease or one of its synonyms.

Bob's reply, scribbled in a large hand on a

small sheet of his letterhead, read: "Have to

use disease -- sick -- only way to get across

hopelessness," the final word doubly underlined

and written in even larger letters.



(Smith in Akron to Wilson)



The answer William Griffith Wilson gave when specifically asked about alcoholism

as disease after he had addressed the annual meeting of the National Catholic

Clergy Conference of Alcoholism in 1961:

“We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it

is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease.

Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is

something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong

with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity.

Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady --' far safer term for

us to use.'



In A.A.’s pamphlet, 44 Questions, the answer to the question What is

Alcoholism? It is said:

There are many different ideas about what alcoholism really is. The explanation

that seems to make sense to most A.A. members is that alcoholism is an illness,

a progressive illness, which can never be cured but which, like some other

illnesses, can be arrested. Going one step further, many A.A.s feel that the

illness represents the combination of a physical sensitivity to alcohol and a

mental obsession with drinking, which, regardless of consequences, cannot be

broken by will power alone.



- - - -



From GFC: what does the Big Book actually say?



3 TIMES:

The word "disease" appears three times

in the A.A. Big Book. It is said

explicitly (in the first instance) or implied

by context (in the other two usages) that

alcoholism is a "spiritual disease."



It is mentioned first on page 64 in

discussing alcoholism:



"Resentment is the 'number one' offender.

It destroys more alcoholics than anything

else. From it stem all forms of spiritual

disease, for we have been not only

mentally and physically ill, we have been

spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady

is overcome, we straighten out mentally

and physically."



Note that the words disease, ill, sick,

and malady are treated by Bill Wilson

here as exact synonyms. All four words

meant exactly the same thing in the Big

Book when it was published in 1939.



Then again at the beginning of the second part

of the book in the story of Bill Dotson, the

Akron lawyer who was Alcoholics Anonymous

Number Three, the word disease is also used.

When Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob visited

Dotson in the hospital, they told him he had

"a disease," and when he explained his spiritual

conversion to his wife, he told her he felt

that God had cured him "of this terrible

disease."



So the word disease may only appear 3 times

in the Big Book, but in each instance, it was

a vitally important time, where Bill Wilson

was talking about the very heart and core of

the AA program.



19 TIMES:

Sick, sick person, or sickness on pages

18, 64, 67, 90, 92, 100, 101, 106, 107,

108, 115, 139, 140, 141, 147, 149, 153,

157, and 164.



14 TIMES:

Ill or illness on pages 7, 18, 20, 30, 44, 92,

107, 108, 115, 118, 122, 139, 140, and 142.



ONLY 6 TIMES:

Malady appears on pages 23, 64, 92, 138, 139,

and 165.



ONLY 3 TIMES:

The words ail or ailment are used on pages 135,

139, 140.



- - - -



From: Laurie Andrews <jennylaurie1@hotmail.com>

(jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com)



Friends,



I don't recall using the phrase "what early

AA people believed"; I quoted Bill W and the

Big Book.



Bill cautioned against describing alcoholism

as a disease entity and went so far as to say

AA didn't use the term, preferring malady,

sickness etc. Disease is only mentioned once

in the first part of the book, where the

program is outlined; here the reference is to

"spiritual" disease, and I'm not sure how a

physician would be qualified to diagnose that

condition.



Bill D mentions disease in the stories section

and others might do in later editions, but

that's their personal opinion, not AA "policy".

I've read "Mrs Marty Mann: the first lady of

Alcoholics Anonymous"; she had own agenda.



Seems to me Glenn makes the same error as the

Grapevine in conflating disease with illness

(malady, ailment etc). They are not the same;

I can be ill or sick but not necessarily have

a disease. That many AA's lazily use the term

disease to describe their (and my!) condition

doesn't make it right. Ringwald (op cit)

writes: "William Miller and Ernest Kurtz, two

respected researchers and observers, compiled

various outside conceptions of alcoholism

mistakenly attributed to Alcoholics Anonymous.



AA literature, they write, does not assert



that there is only one form of alcoholism

or only one way to recover; that alcoholics

are responsible for their condition;



that moderate drinking is impossible

for every problem drinker;



that alcoholics suffer from denial and should

be bullied into treatment; or that alcoholism

is purely a physical or hereditary disorder.

AA's core beliefs do, however, resonate with

or resemble those of other fields from which

it has often borrowed or which it has influenced."

In meeting after meeting I hear AA's making

these and other claims; these opinions are

also often voiced at public information

gatherings by those who simply haven't studied

the sources.



Till the shadows flee away,



laurie A.


0 -1 0 0
5696 buckjohnson41686
Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book 5/8/2009 2:28:00 AM


Foreward to 4th edition was changed, page xxiv,

line 10. First printing has "Fundamentally,

though, the difference between an electronic

meeting and the home group around the corner

is only one of format."



This was deleted, not sure which printing.



- - - -



Message #5670 from "Charlie Parker"

<charlieparker@prodigy.net>

(charlieparker at prodigy.net)



What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare

and which foreword was changed??



Charlie Parker



- - - -



Original Message #5668

From: momaria33772

Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009



I'd like to share one other thought I have had

every time anyone has brought up publishing of

any materials like these. Would the people who

love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to

have it changed at some future Delegate

Conference based on some objection that

someone in my home group had and got submitted

to the Conference Agenda?



For those who don't believe that could happen,

I would point out that both the fourth edition

versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare

have been changed based on submissions by

members and groups in the US and Canada. I

could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour

Book being radically different from the one

originally published.



Jim H.


0 -1 0 0
5697 grault
Re: profits from 24 Hour Book sent to New York AA profits from 24 Hour Book sent to New York AA 5/10/2009 12:35:00 AM


No 7th Tradition problem: If the money

contributed to the GSO came from an AA member

or an AA group, it wouldn't matter how the

donor(s) earned the money (i.e., whether

through selling books, practicing law, winning

the lottery, etc.)





--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

Laurie Andrews <jennylaurie1@...> wrote:

>

> Since the 24 Hour book (like the Bible!)

> is not Conference-approved, how did sending

> profits from its sale to GSO (between 1948

> and 1954, when it was being printed under

> the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA

> Group) square with Tradition Seven?

>

> Laurie A.

>


0 -1 0 0
5698 Lynn Sawyer
Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion 5/9/2009 3:04:00 AM


ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:



From: Lynn Sawyer <sawyer7952@yahoo.com>

(sawyer7952 at yahoo.com)



For our information, 'Bill's Story' refers to

Christ on pg. 11:



"To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great

man, not too closely followed by those who

claimed Him. His moral teaching -- most excellent.

For myself, I had adopted those parts which

seemed convenient and not too difficult; the

rest I disregarded."



Lynn S

Sacramento, California



- - - -



From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com)



We quote Bill W to support the religious or so

called spiritual aspect of AA, but ignore Bill

W's statements, " is not a religious organization.

There is no dogma. The one Theological proposition

is a power greater than one's self. Even that concept is forced on no one."



"Additionally, he said, AA is a benign anarchy

and democracy." As far as spirituality is concerned,

it is not mine to decide if I am spiritual or not.

But I can try not to be unspiritual, and hope I

make the right guesses.



- - - -



From: "J. Lobdell" <jlobdell54@hotmail.com>

(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)



But A. J. Russell was a leading OG writer and

known as such (FOR SINNERS ONLY which is a kind

of model for the revelations of GOD CALLING),

and GOD CALLING was unquestionably an OG book

in Bill's mind (and I think the public mind) --

and the doctrine of private revelation was

recognizably an OG doctrine. And of course,

tho' God Calling didn't have the four A's and

the five C's, Rich Walker's little black book

did, so was twice or thrice an OG book. At

least that's my interpretation of the reasons

behind the turn-down. Not that the little

black book was too religious but that it was

too Oxford Group "religious" -- I think.



- - - -



From: Tom Hickcox <cometkazie1@cox.net>

(cometkazie1 at cox.net)



I would like to note that what is not said is often more interesting

than what is said,



I can imagine the storm that could have erupted had religiosity been

given as the reason for turning down the 24 Hour Book. In my opinion

they took the easier, softer way and followed that by rejecting the

Little Red Book, which to me, at least, has much less religious

imagery, for the same reason.



I would also note that we are looking at the 24 Hour Book with 21st

century eyes. The criteria for what may be considered religious

today have shifted from what they were fifty-five years ago. I use

Emmet Fox's _Around the Year with Emmet Fox_ in my daily

meditations. To me it is less religious than _The Upper Room_ was,

but more religious than the 24 Hour Book. Post-modernism has changed

the ball game.



My point is that for its time the 24 Hour Book was not very

religious, but applying today's standards it is more so.



Tommy H in Baton Rouge


0 -1 0 0
5699 Arthur S
RE: Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book (and Harper publishers) Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book (and Harper publishers) 5/11/2009 10:11:00 AM


Hi Glenn



The written evidence on Harper & Brothers role in AA publishing (for both

the 12&12 and AA Comes of Age) points to them simply being the channel for

releasing books to the public through commercial outlets and not as an

additional source of income. In fact the board of trustees declined to

accept royalty payments from Harpers (reported to the 1954 Conference).



The 1951 Conference raised Bill W's royalties from 10% to 15%. The 1952

Conference approved a large list of publishing projects suggested by a

committee of board of trustees for future publications and approved six (6)

publishing projects proposed by Bill and then added ten (10) publishing

projects proposed by the Delegates themselves. These kind of actions do not

sustain the notion of any kind of cash crunch for publishing in the 1950s.



From what I can glean from final Conference reports, it appears that

Harper's & Brothers was brought in primarily to be the channel of

distribution of books to non-AAs through commercial channels (the key link

to them as a distribution channel was Eugene Exman of pre-publication Big

Book fame). The publishing relationship between AA and Harpers lasted well

into the 1970s.



It's a bit odd that the Conference declined to accept publication rights to

"24 Hours a Day" because, approximately two decades later there was actually

a case where a book wwas sold through GSO that was not published by AA and

whose independent authorship was clearly acknowledged. Harper was involved

in this as well. It involved the book "Bill W" by Robert Thompsen. It was

sold through GSO from 1971-1976 at which point the Conference stopped it.

That book was distributed through Harper (Harper & Row).



Back to the notion of whether there was any kind of cash crunch. The final

report of the 1953 Conference states:"After long and careful consideration,

and following a poll of Conference members, the Trustees approved the

publishing firm of Harper & Bros. as distributors of Bill's new book to

non-A.A. outlets. The Society retains full ownership of the copyright and

remains the actual publisher. The new arrangement will benefit the movement

by getting increased attention for a basic document on fundamental

principles of the Society, and through certain printing and distribution

economies. Within ten days after announcement of the new book had been sent

to the groups, orders for nearly 6,000 copies had been received at General

Service Headquarters.



In 1954, the board of trustees reported to the Conference that it "Decided

not to accept, a royalty of $.25 per copy on sales of a book on The Twelve

Steps, which had been offered by the publishers." The 1954 PI Conference

Committee recommended: "That, in connection with publication of Bill's book

"A.A. Comes of Age" we augment Harper's review list, and that no aggressive

radio or television publicity efforts for the book be made."



Finally, the 1976 Conference recommended: "That G.S.O. discontinue

distribution of the "Bill W." book [the biography published by Harper &

Row], dispose of the present supply in the most feasible manner, and notify

the Fellowship through Box 4-5-9 when the "Bill W." book is no longer

available through G.S.O. Sense of the meeting was taken that the deletion of

the listing in the catalog should be handled by overprinting or other method

as G.S.O. sees fit."



If this doesn't alter your viewpoint then I surrender.



Cheers

Arthur


0 -1 0 0
5700 Arthur S
Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book (and comments on Conferences) Publishing the 24 Hour book (and comments on Conferences) 5/12/2009 12:23:00 PM


There are numerous errors in the posting about

Conferences and advisory actions in



Message #5682 from Jim H. <jhoffma6@tampabay.rr.com>

(jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com).



Comments on this are embedded in the original

message:



===================================

Hi Charlie,



Each year Delegates are assigned to various committees within the

Conference. Those committees are comprised of Delegates, Trustees and the GSO

Staff.

===================================



[Comments on the above]: There are Trustees Committees and there are

Conference Committees. Trustees Committees meet four (4) times a year.

Conference Committees meet one time each year at the Conference and consist of

Delegates (only) with a member of the GSO staff acting as a non-voting committee

Secretary. There is almost (but not quite) a one-for-one correspondence between

the Trustees Committees and the Conference Committees each of which is explained

in the Service Manual.



===================================

When the 4th Edition was being prepared, it was decided to keep working copies

down to as few people as possible. There were fears that if everyone reviewed

the work in process some stories might get out and our Copyright might get

compromised. Therefore the Literature Committee members were the ones who saw

the final copy and sent a recommendation to approve it to the full Conference.

The 2001 Conference approved and it was sent to publication. I was fortunate to

know the Delegate from my Area who was on that literature Committee and I know

that she took her responsibility very seriously and did the very best she could

in the review and approval process.

===================================



[Comments on the above]: The bit about copyrights being compromised if the

stories got out is bogus. However, it was stated by AAWS/GSO (who also managed

to lose the copyrights for the 1st/2nd edition Big Books as well as the Twelve

Concepts in 2007). The 1999 Conference approved a Conference Literature

Committee recommendation that: "Based on precedent in regard to previous

editions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the A.A. history book, and Daily Reflections,

any draft copy of the Fourth Edition of Alcoholics Anonymous be

considered a work-in-progress, and as such, is confidential; the operating

principle being that any story material brought forward to the Conference

Literature Committee will be done on a "for-their-eyes-only" basis adhering to

the principle of the "right of decision," and not brought forward for any other

general distribution until publication."



===================================

Once the book came out, the fellowship found some things they didn't like. In

2002, some members objected to the sentence in the Forward to the Fourth Edition

that said "Fundamentally, though, the differnce between an electronic meeting

and the home group around the corner is only one of format". Many of our members

disagreed with this assesment. The Literature Committee recommended that the

sentence be deleted. The 2002 Conference agreed and the Forward was changed.

===================================



[Comments on the above]: It went well beyond "some members" objecting and raised

quite a wide-spread negative reaction. The recommendation of the 2002 Conference

Literature Committee stated "Although the committee acknowledged the importance

of electronic meetings to some A.A. members, the sentence 'Fundamentally,

though, the difference between an electronic meeting and the home group around

the corner is only one of format' in the last paragraph of the Foreword to the

Fourth Edition, be deleted in future printings of the Big Book, Alcoholics

Anonymous."



===================================

One of the goals for the Fourth Edition was to keep it roughly the same size

while introducing new stories to help new people relate. In the process, some

existing stories were edited and punctuation was updated. As people read the

book, some noticed the differences in their favorite stories. At the 2003

Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring "The

Housewife Who Drank At Home", Me, An Alcoholic?", "Another Chance", and "Freedom

From Bondage" to the Third Edition version.

===================================



[Comments on the above]: The 2003 Conference Literature Committee did not

recommend against restoring the story changes. It "agreed to take no action." In

Conference Committee protocol this means that the committee discussed the item

but did not forward it to the Conference floor for a vote.



===================================

There had been an earlier Conference Advisory Action saing that Dr. Bob's story

should not be changed without written permission of 3/4 of all registered

groups. The punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" had been updated from the Third

Edition version. Many of us thought that was within the spirit of that Advisory

Action since it did not change the content and since that kind of editing had

occurred in earlier editions. Some members submitted an Agenda item because they

thought that even minor changes violated the previous Advisory Action and that

no Conference had approved the specific changes.

===================================



[Comments on the above]: There is no such Conference advisory action

regarding the need for permission of 3/4 of the registered groups to change Dr

Bob's Story (or the Big Book or any other book). The 1995 Conference Literature

Committee recommended that: "The first 164 pages of the Big Book, Alcoholics

Anonymous, the Preface, the Forewords, 'The Doctor's Opinion,' 'Doctor Bob's

Nightmare' and the Appendices remain as is." A floor action was submitted to the

1996 Conference to: "Propose a Conference resolution that the 46th General

Service Conference recommend to the Fellowship of A.A.s of the world that the

first 164 pages of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, the Preface, the

Forewards (sic), "The Doctor's Opinion," "Doctor Bob's Nightmare" and the

Appendices be unchanged without approval of three

quarters of groups of the world." It did not result in an advisory action. The

1997 Trustees Committee on Literature also reviewed the request and took no

action.



Note: the "3/4 of the registered groups permission" applies to

the Steps, Traditions and Article 12 of the Permanent Conference Charter (i.e.

the 6 "Warranties" which are also Concept 12) per advisory action of the 1976

Conference (which also approved the 3rd edition Big Book).



===================================

At the 2004 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against

restoring the punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" to that of the Third Edition.

When this recommendation came to the Conference, A Floor Action was submitted

and the full Conference overrode the Literature Committee. When our Delegate

gave his Conference report he told us that he was prepared to vote against the

change in accordance with the wishes of many of us in the area. He finally voted

for the Floor Action because he saw that it was an issue that was dividing AA

and while he had an obligation to our Area, he had a bigger obligation to AA as

a whole. I was never so proud of someone

who disagreed with me as I was that day.

===================================



[Comments on the above]:



The 2003 Conference Literature Committee recommended that the punctuation be

restored but it failed to produce a Conference advisory. The 2004 Conference

Literature Committee did not recommend against restoring the punctuation

changes. It "agreed to take no action." Again, this means that the committee

discussed the item but did not forward it to the Conference floor for a

vote. It was also consistent with the action of the 2003 Conference. A floor

action was submitted at the 2004 Conference that "The punctuation in 'Dr.

Bob's Nightmare' in the Fourth Edition be restored as it appears in the

Third Edition of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous." It was approved.



The Conferences from 1995-2001, in my judgment, contributed greatly to the

confusion on the punctuation changes in Dr Bob's Story. Each Conference felt

compelled to offer its own advisory action on the portions of the Big Book

to be left "as is." They were not consistent. The 1999 Conference passed an

advisory action that "The Publications Department of the General Service

Office maintain the following specific editorial responsibilities regarding

the Fourth Edition Big Book Project: Editorial 'fine tuning' such as

footnotes, punctuation, capitalization, spelling, updating, jacket

materials, page numbers, etc. ..." The 2001 Conference passed an advisory

action that "The Fourth Edition of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, be

approved keeping in mind the 1995 Conference Advisory Action which reads,

"The first 164 pages of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, the Preface, the

Forewords, 'The Doctor's Opinion,''Doctor Bob's Nightmare' and the

Appendices remain as is' and keeping in mind the 1999 Conference Action

which reads, 'The Publications Department of the General Service Office

maintain the following specific editorial responsibilities regarding the

Fourth Edition Big Book Project: Editorial 'fine tuning' such as footnotes,

punctuation, capitalization, spelling, updating, jacket materials, page

numbers, etc. ..." This was the Conference that the made the 4th edition Big

Book "Conference-approved" and again allowed for editorial "fine-tuning"

regarding punctuation among other things.



* * * * * *



I personally find little to be proud of in the series of actions on the part

of the Conferences from 1995-2004 on the matter of the 4th edition Big Book,

although they meant well on the matter. In determining whether punctuation

changes to Dr Bob's story were appropriate or not, seems to depend on which

Conference advisory action you choose. The final one on the matter (from the

2001 Conference which approved the 4th edition) allowed for punctuation

changes to be made.



Perhaps only in AA would a matter so predominant and crucial as the

placement of commas, periods and semi-colons, rise to the level of such

supreme and sanctimonious consideration. However, it also makes for great

theater (Rule # 62).



While on the soap box, I'd further suggest that the two main contributing

factors to the theater are: (1) AA members who view the Big Book as some

sort of inviolable Scripture (i.e. people who scrutinize it punctuation mark

by punctuation mark as if somehow it changes the meaning of the content),

and (2) the all-too-human tendency of many Delegates to want to leave behind

some legacy advisory action that highlights their 2-year term of office.



Cheers

Arthur S


0 -1 0 0
5701 Shakey1aa@aol.com
Re: Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? 5/13/2009 10:08:00 AM


SEVERAL POSSIBILITIES:



From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com)



Clyde B. of Bucks county Pennsylvania got sober

in 1946 and has not had a drink since. He has

62 or 63 years.



He volunteers daily at the Livengrin rehab.



See more about him at



http://freemancarpenter.com/About_Freeman.html



Shakey Mike Gwirtz

Phila Pa USA.



- - - -



"Mary Latowski" <mplatowski@gmail.com>

(mplatowski at gmail.com)



Paul Martin of Riverside Illinois



Also from: "M.J. Johnson" <threeeyedtoad@gmail.com>



I believe Paul M. of Chicago, IL just celebrated

61 years in September 2008.



- - - -



From: Tom White <tomwhite@cableone.net>

(tomwhite at cableone.net)



Dear Shane:



Yes, I know of an AA with more than 60 years of sobriety: I believe he

sobered up in 1946, when he was in the first half of his 20's, and has

stayed sober since. He is now 87. He is currently in hospital. I

intend to call him and let him know of your inquiry. Tom W. Odessa, TX



- - - -



From: "Elisabeth" <dunnelisabeth@comcast.net>

(dunnelisabeth at comcast.net)



Yes, I know of one we have in Vegas. His name is Steve P. and

he has 62 years and is from Cleveland, Ohio.


0 -1 0 0
5702 firsthings1st
Re: profits from 24 Hour Book sent to New York AA profits from 24 Hour Book sent to New York AA 5/10/2009 7:35:00 PM


--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

Laurie Andrews <jennylaurie1@...> wrote:

>

> Since the 24 Hour book (like the Bible!)

> is not Conference-approved, how did sending

> profits from its sale to GSO (between 1948

> and 1954, when it was being printed under

> the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA

> Group) square with Tradition Seven?

>

> Laurie A.

>

- - - -



This was a group conscience decision by the

Daytona Beach Group. However it was not sent

directly as such. Rich W. donated the profits

from the book to his home group. Months later,

around Christmas time, a letter came to every

AA group that GSO needed more donations.



This letter from GSO was signed by Bill W. and

was very convincing of that fact. The group

decided they had way over their prudent reserve

and sent most of what they had to GSO.



This information is from correspondence from

NY office,the orginal printer, Hazelden and

treasurers reports from the Daytona Beach

Group.



These papers may be seen at the archives in

the Daytona Beach Intergroup office.



David W.


0 -1 0 0
5703 rick tompkins
RE: Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book 5/13/2009 8:10:00 PM


The change to the Foreword was made for the Seventh Printing, which followed

in about eighteen months from the First Printing and a Floor Action /

Advisory Action by the 2002 General Service Conference. Printings may have

been anywhere between 100,000 for the First, through 10-20,000 for each

following press run and it tool a while to put the Advisory Action into

effect.



Some of the bindings in the First Printing went haywire with stitched

sections upside down, doubled sections, missing sections, etc. and a few

reports made it to my Area meeting 'Open Mike Time.' At least one of the

mis-printed books made it into my Area's Archives.



The punctuation change to "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" was initially made by an

unnamed GSO Staff (not the Literature Committee Desk but one of a few

editorial staff personnel) and passed through the General Service Board with

little fanfare or announcement, until the 2003 Conference voted to restore

the original verbatim syntax.



My dates are as correct as I can recall without digging further, but the

Foreword 'flack' was a heated Floor discussion bringing an immediate change

to the Foreword's focus. And, all in the spirit of Tradition 2 and a "loving

God expressing Himself through our Group conscience" that was right

(appropriate) and the voting worked perfectly. All were happy with the

Foreword's textual change and I haven't heard anyone dispute the change

since 2002 ... we are a self-correcting Fellowship, aren't we?



When it comes down to carrying the message to other alcoholics, very little

can replace a face-to-face meeting effectiveness.



Just ask a newcomer!



Rick, Illinois



- - - -



From: buckjohnson41686

Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 1:28 AM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Change to foreword, 4th ed. of Big Book



Foreward to 4th edition was changed, page xxiv,

line 10. First printing has "Fundamentally,

though, the difference between an electronic

meeting and the home group around the corner

is only one of format."



This was deleted, not sure which printing.



- - - -



Message #5670 from "Charlie Parker"

<charlieparker@prodigy.net <mailto:charlieparker%40prodigy.net> >

(charlieparker at prodigy.net)



What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare

and which foreword was changed??


0 -1 0 0
5704 Arun Shelar
Themes for General Service Conference Themes for General Service Conference 5/15/2009 4:57:00 AM


Hi,



Can anybody tell me where I can get the list

of Themes for General Service Conferences from

the beginning till the present date?



Arun


0 -1 0 0
5705 Administrator
Roland Hazard Roland Hazard 5/14/2009 6:49:00 PM


I am a friend of Bill W.



My profession has been printing for the past 53 years and just recently

the local _Tularosa Basin Historical Society_ brought me a little

project to print for them that AA History Buffs should be interested in.



The Title is: "Roland Hazard and the La Luz Pottery"



This is a small historical accounting of the time that Roland Hazard

spent here in New Mexico.



Hazard's brief time spent here in Otero County, NM was flamboyant and

memorable by the many

natives of the area at the time.



I have heard that there is a publication coming out on the life and

times of Roland Hazard and that there is a void of the years 1928-30 or

so when he was here. World War I got going and Roland got drunk so

Clarence Agnew, Roland's Manager put him on the train to New York and

he never returned.



This publication will be available through the Society soon.



Ted Harrington


0 -1 0 0
5706 chiphxsf
The book called The God Angle The book called The God Angle 5/14/2009 6:15:00 PM


My sponsor's sponsor came into a copy of "The God Angle" in his early sobriety.

He had always favored it and thought it should be in circulation, again. I have

made numerous attempts to contact Mrs. T. W. Robinson, Alexandria, VA who had

the copyright to the volume. I have also attempted to contact the central and

archive's offices and e-mail addresses of the Virginia area, to no avail, to

find the copyright holder(s) of the book.



If anyone has any information concerning this book, the whereabouts of any

surving family of the author, Robbie Robinson, the author's date of birth and

death or the original date of the book's publishing and when it was written,

please contact me at:



Mike Kane

michaelvkane@hotmail.com

(michaelvkane at hotmail.com)

480-287-0091



Thank you!



mike


0 -1 0 0
5707 J. Lobdell
Re: Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? 5/14/2009 6:41:00 AM


I had thought the original question was about AAs with 60 years who were 95 or

older, which I cannot answer, so did not try. Clyde B. (June 20 1946) is around

88 (maybe 89); Chet H of Hummelstown PA, who regularly speaks at our History &

Archives Gathering, has a DLD of April 4 1949: he is just about to turn 86.

Chet got sober in Harrisburg PA and has been sober here sixty years, still

living within ten miles or so of Harrisburg. Clyde B. was born in Canada, got

sober in Boston, and came to Central PA in the early 1970s. He was at the

Eastern PA General Service Convention/Assembly in the Poconos in November 2008,

but I haven't been able to get him to the History & Archives Gathering yet.



- - - -



From: Bernard Wood <bern-donna@earthlink.net>

(bern-donna at earthlink.net)



Carl Demorey got sober in Muskegon, MI in December 1947. He went to

the first convention in Cleveland in 1950. Met Bill W. there.

His story is posted here. I believe he is about 90, living in

assisted living here in Largo, Florida



- - - -



From: Forrest Jackson <forrestdalejackson@yahoo.com>

(forrestdalejackson at yahoo.com)



My Grandsponser Easy E. from Montgomery, AL passed away last year 2 months shy

of his 66th AA birthday. As they only make the medallions up to 60 years, I'd

have to get one without the numerals on it and sand the center down, then take

it in to an engraver to put the correct number in.I don't believe anyone had

ever achieved this milestone (65 years).


0 -1 0 0
5708 Shakey1aa@aol.com
Re: The book called The God Angle The book called The God Angle 5/15/2009 7:15:00 PM


For more about the book (including a month's

worth of readings) see this site:



http://www.aabibliography.com/the_god_angle_alcoholics_book.htm



Yours in Service,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz

Phila, Pa. USA

Hope to see you all at the NAW


0 -1 0 0
5709 Bill Lash
Stepping Stones 2009 Newsletter Stepping Stones 2009 Newsletter 5/17/2009 9:28:00 AM


http://www.steppingstones.org/Stepping_Stones_Newsletter_2009.pdf


0 -1 0 0
5710 Charles Knapp
Re: Themes for General Service Conference Themes for General Service Conference 5/16/2009 3:59:00 AM


FROM CHARLES K. AND ARTHUR S.



From: Charles Knapp <cpknapp@yahoo.com>

(cpknapp at yahoo.com)



Hello,

 

In Area 9 a list of past themes for the Conference is given out each year and

GSRs are ask to come up with ideas for the next years theme. Here is a list I

found at Area 54 website. 1966 was the first year a theme was used. This list

can also be gotten from your Delegate or GSO.



1966- Principles and Responsibility

1967- Sponsorship--The Hand of A.A.

1968- Unity Vital to AA Survival, Growth

1969- Group Conscience Guides AA

1970- Service- The Heart of AA

1971- Communication; Key to AA Growth

1972- Our Primary Purpose

1973- Responsibility-Our Expression of Gratitude

1974- Understanding and Cooperation-Inside and Outside AA

1975- Unity Through Love and Service

1976- Sponsorship-Our Privilege and Responsibility

1977- The AA Group-Where it Begins

1978- The Member and the Group-Recovery Through Service

1979- The Legacies; Our Heritage and My Responsibility

1980- Participation: The Key to Recovery

1981- AA Takes its Inventory

1982- The Traditions- Our Way of Unity

1983- Anonymity- Our Spiritual Foundation

1984- Gratitude-The Language of the Heart

1985- Golden Moments of Reflection

1986- AA's Future-Our Responsibility

1987- The Seventh Tradition-A Turning Point

1988- Singleness of Purpose-Key to Unity

1989- Anonymity-Living Our Traditions

1990- The Home Group-Our Responsibility and Link to AA's Future

1991- Sponsorship: Gratitude in Action

1992- The AA Message in a Changing World

1993- AA Takes its Inventory-The General Service Conference Structure

1994- Spirit of Sacrifice

1995- Pass It On - Our Three Legacies

1996- Preserving Our Fellowship-Our Challenge

1997- Spirituality-Our Foundation

1998- Our Twelfth Step Work

1999- Moving Forward; Unity Through Humility

2000- Trusting our Future to AA Principles

2001- Love and Service

2002- Sharing the Steps, Traditions and Concepts

2003- Living A.A.'s Principles Through Sponsorship

2004- Our Singleness of Purpose - the Cornerstone of AA

2005- Basics of Our Home Group- Recovery, Unity, Service

2006- Sponsorship, Service, and Self-Support In a Changing World

2007- A.A.'s 12th Step Responsibility - Are We Going to Any Length?

2008- Communication & Participation The key to Unity & Self-Support

2009- Our Commitment to Carry A.A.'s Message - Enthusiasm and Gratitude in

Action



Hope this helps

Charles from California

(soon to be Charles from Wisconsin)



- - - -



From: "Arthur S" <ArtSheehan@msn.com>

(ArtSheehan at msn.com)



Hi Arun



Conferences did not collectively predefine specific themes prior to 1966.

However, the 1951-65 Conferences did have dominant or keynote topics.



========================================

1951-65 Inferred or later defined themes

========================================

1951 - Not to Govern - But to Serve

1952 - It's a Question of Lives that May Be Lost if AA Does Not Survive

1953 - The Milestones Ahead

1954 - The Lost Commandment, the Dictionary and AA

1955 - The Paradoxes of AA

1956 - Petition, Appeal, Participation and Decision

1957 - The Need for Authority Equal to Responsibility

1958 - Promise and Progress

1959 - Confidence, Absence of Fear of Future

1960 - Need for Improved Internal and External Communications

1961 - Determination to Work and Grow Together, and With Others

1962 - Our Primary Purpose and Deep Devotion to the Concept of Unity

1963 - Emphasis was on Function rather than Structure

1964 - Practice These Principles

1965 - Responsibility to Those We Serve



=================================================

1966 - First Conference to have a predefined theme

==================================================

1966 - Principles and Responsibility

1967 - Sponsorship - The Hand of AA

1968 - Unity Vital to AA Survival, Growth

1969 - Group Conscience Guides AA

1970 - Service - The Heart of AA

1971 - Communication: Key to AA Growth

1972 - Our Primary Purpose

1973 - Responsibility - Our Expression of Gratitude

1974 - Understanding and Cooperation - Inside and Outside AA

1975 - Unity Through Love and Service

1976 - Sponsorship - Our Privilege and Responsibility

1977 - The AA Group - Where it Begins

1978 - The Member and the Group - Recovery Through Service

1979 - The Legacies: Our Heritage and Responsibility

1980 - Participation: The Key to Recovery

1981 - AA Takes Its Inventory

1982 - The Traditions - Our Way of Unity

1983 - Anonymity - Our Spiritual Foundation

1984 - Gratitude - The Language of the Heart

1985 - Golden Moments of Reflection

1986 - AA's Future - Our Responsibility

1987 - The Seventh Tradition - A Turning Point

1988 - Singleness of Purpose - Key to Unity

1989 - Anonymity - Living Our Traditions

1990 - The Home Group - Our Responsibility and Link to AA's Future

1991 - Sponsorship: Gratitude in Action

1992 - The AA Message in a Changing World

1993 - AA Takes Its Inventory - The General Service Conference Structure

1994 - Spirit of Sacrifice

1995 - Pass It On - Our Three Legacies

1996 - Preserving Our Fellowship - Our Challenge

1997 - Spirituality - Our Foundation

1998 - Our Twelfth Step Work

1999 - Moving Forward: Unity Through Humility

2000 - Trusting Our Future to AA Principles

2001 - Love and Service

2002 - Sharing the Steps, Traditions and Concepts

2003 - Living AA's Principles Through Sponsorship

2004 - Our Singleness of Purpose - the Cornerstone of AA

2005 - Basics of Our Home Group - Recovery, Unity and Service

2006 - Sponsorship, Service and Self-Support in a Changing World

2007 - Our 12th Step Responsibility - Are We going to Any Length?

2008 - Communication and Participation - the Key to Unity and Self-Support

2009 - Our Commitment to Carry AA's Message - Enthusiasm and Gratitude in

Action



Cheers

Arthur


0 -1 0 0
5711 Arthur S
RE: Roland Hazard / Rowland Hazard Roland Hazard / Rowland Hazard 5/15/2009 7:07:00 PM


His name is spelled "Rowland" - Cheers - Arthur


0 -1 0 0
5712 dave_landuyt
The Little Red Book The Little Red Book 5/15/2009 6:01:00 PM


A previous post by Tommy H. states "There were

a number of changes made to the LRB in the

first half-dozen printings from 1946-1950".



Could Tommy, or anyone with the knowledge of

these changes, post some examples?



If anyone has website(s) that show or explain

these changes, that would also be appreciated.



Thanks to one and all

Dave L.


0 -1 0 0
5713 Glenn Chesnut
Re: The Little Red Book The Little Red Book 5/18/2009 3:25:00 PM


The http://hindsfoot.org/ed02.html website

gives some examples of changes made to The

Little Red Book between the 1946 edition and

the 1949 edition.


0 -1 0 0
5714 Bill Lash
Dr. Silkworth Birthday Celebration Dr. Silkworth Birthday Celebration 5/17/2009 12:17:00 PM


You are cordially invited to the Sixth Annual

Dr. Silkworth Birthday Celebration!



Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 3:00PM (no rain date

this year).



At his gravesite in Glenwood Cemetery, Route 71

(Monmouth Rd.), West Long Branch, New Jersey.



Speakers: Barbara Silkworth (a family member)

and Bill S. (currently writing a book about

the first edition AA Big Book).



PLEASE BE SURE TO BRING A LAWN CHAIR OR

SOMETHING TO SIT ON.



If you have any questions please call Barefoot

Bill at 201-232-8749 (cell).



Directions:



Take the Garden State Parkway (north or south)

to Exit 105 (Route 36), continue on Route 36

approximately 3 miles through 5 traffic lights

(passing Monmouth Mall, two more shopping

plazas, and several automobile dealerships).



Watch for green road signs stating “Route

71 South, West Long Branch and Asbury Park”

(this is just before the sixth light).



Take this turnoff to the right, past Carriage

Square and bear right onto Route 71 (Monmouth

Road).



Glenwood Cemetery appears very quickly on the

left (the entrance is marked by two stone

pillars and the name).



Once inside the cemetery, bear left, go up

the hill and make the first right (a hard right).

The gravesite is near the first tree on the right.


0 -1 0 0
5715 diazeztone
High Road to Happiness Waterloo Iowa pamphlet High Road to Happiness Waterloo Iowa pamphlet 5/17/2009 12:10:00 PM


High Road to Happiness Waterloo Iowa pamphlet



Does anyone have info on the how and why's about

this pamphlet being written?



LD Pierce

<eztone@hotmail.com>

(eztone at hotmail.com)



http://aabibliography.com/


0 -1 0 0
5716 Kevin Short
Re: Themes for General Service Conference Themes for General Service Conference 5/18/2009 7:26:00 PM


The theme for the 2010 General Service

Conference will be: "Practicing A.A.'s

Principles -- the Pathway to Unity."



Kevin


0 -1 0 0
5717 victoria callaway
Early AA meeting formats Early AA meeting formats 5/21/2009 11:14:00 PM


At our BB study tonite I was asked if I knew

anything about early AA meeting formats and

could I find out any info about them. Anyone

have any info on this?



thanks God bless

vicki


0 -1 0 0
5718 garylock7008
Wednesday removed from 4th ed. He Sold Himself Short Wednesday removed from 4th ed. He Sold Himself Short 5/22/2009 10:43:00 AM


Speaking of changes made in the 4th edition of

the Big Book - I am wondering why they took the

word "Wednesday" out of Earl T's story ("He

Sold Himself Short," page 262/263) in the 4th

Edition, in all the printings?



Back in the past this was the only day

[afternoon] a doctor in the town I grew up

in - in Nova Scotia - ever took off.



To me it tells of the sacrifice and dedication

Dr. Bob and his family had made for the

fellowship! With the stroke of a keyboard -

a part of history is gone.



Gary up in Canada eh!


0 -1 0 0
5719 katiebartlett79
Dr. Silkworth''s own religious beliefs Dr. Silkworth''s own religious beliefs 5/20/2009 2:34:00 PM


Hi,



Katie from Barking Big Book study, The Way Out.



Me and my group are wondering if Dr. Silkworth

was himself a religious person.



Many thanks,



Katie


0 -1 0 0
5721 Glenn Chesnut
Four essays on spirituality Four essays on spirituality 5/22/2009 5:12:00 PM


Glenn C., four essays on spirituality

http://hindsfoot.org/spiritu.html

 

TWO ESSAYS on Rudolf Otto and his famous book

"The Idea of the Holy."

 

The central emphasis in A.A. spirituality is on

learning to develop our God-consciousness and

our awareness of the presence of God. The most

important spokesman for this concept in early

twentieth-century thought was the German

philosopher and theologian Rudolf Otto (1869-1937).

We need to know a little about Otto's book to

fully understand what early AA people meant by

this term "God-consciousness."

 

"Learning to See the Sacred Dimension of

Reality.  Rudolf Otto and the Idea of the Holy,

Part 1:  The holy as one of the categories of

the human understanding." The human experience

of the holy and the sacred, the story of Bill

Wilson, the sense of the divine presence, the

holy as the experience of the "numinous," the

use of metaphors, analogies, and ideograms to

talk about this experience.

http://hindsfoot.org/g04sacr.pdf

 

"The Seven Faces of the Experience of the

Divine Reality.  Rudolf Otto and the Idea of

the Holy, Part 2:  The experience of the sacred

as the source of true serenity and the healing

of the spirit."

(1) Tremendum: the feeling of awe and dread,

(2) Majestas: the call to total surrender,

(3) Energeia: power, energy, love and Eros,

(4) Alienum: the divine abyss lying behind the

surface illusion of understandability,

(5) Fascinans: salvation itself as living in

the continual presence of the sacred,

(6) Augustus: the power which condemns us but

then washes us clean,

(7) Illuminatio: inspiring us to see and be

gripped by the true goal of the spiritual

life.

http://hindsfoot.org/g05myst.pdf

______________________________

 

In the 1930's, Rudolf Otto* and Karl Barth**

were considered to be the two greatest theolo-

gians in the western world. In Otto's formative

work, "The Idea of the Holy," he said that

the heart of all of the world's religions lay

in the experience of what he called the holy

or the sacred, which played a central role

even in religions which had no concept of God

(like nontheistic Buddhism and the Native

American spirituality of tribes like the

Navajos and Potawatomis).***

 

When Bill was talking with Ebby in his kitchen,

he suddenly remembered his encounter with the

experience of the sacred (as Otto's book called

it) at Winchester Cathedral, and he remembered

how his grandfather had talked about experiencing

the same mysterium tremendum while gazing at

the starry heavens in the middle of the night.

Shortly afterwards, Bill Wilson checked himself

into Towns Hospital on Central Park West in

New York City and had a second spiritual

experience while in the hospital, a vision of

light (an Illuminatio as we have called it in

this discussion of Otto's work), where God gave

Bill W. his mission.

 

*Rudolf Otto was a German Lutheran Pietist

like Frank Buchman (the founder of the

Oxford Group).

**Karl Barth was a Swiss Reformed theolo-

gian (Reinhold Niebuhr, the author of

the Serenity Prayer, was his most famous

American representative).

***Otto's work is especially important

because he showed how even atheists

(or better put "nontheists") like Zen

Buddhists and the members of many Native

American religions can still have a rich

and effective spirituality which can

convey the sacred power which heals

alcoholism and addiction -- but only if

these men and women learn how to

experience the overwhelming power of

the Wholly Other which Otto called the

holy or the sacred dimension of reality.

______________________________

 

TWO ADDITIONAL ESSAYS:

 

"The Ground of Being:  God and the Big Bang."

Our universe exploded into being in the Big Bang,

13.7 billion years ago. God (the ground of being)

is the infinite and unknowable Mystery out of

which the Big Bang occurred. Eighteenth and

nineteenth century attacks on the infallibility

of the Bible and the rise of modern atheism in

the 1840's. Atheism as control neurosis and

control fantasy. How twentieth century science

destroyed the roots of modern atheism. The ground

of being as the basis of real spirituality.

http://hindsfoot.org/g06grnd.pdf

 

"Mount Sinai and the Burning Bush:  The Cloud

of Unknowing, the Altar to the Unknown God, and

the Dark Night of the Soul." In order to find

a God of our understanding, we first have to

let go of all our old misconceptions about God,

the universe, and ourselves, and make the ascent

up Mount Sinai, following Moses into the Cloud

of Unknowing. As we continue to climb further

and further into the doubt and anguish of the

Dark Night of the Soul, we use the twelve steps

to guide us into a radical reframing of all the

presuppositions of our lives. Disoriented within

the infinite and all-encompassing Mystery, we

discover the God of the empty altar -- the

Altar to the Unknown God, the Agnosto Theo

(Acts 17:23-28) -- and hear the voice from the

Burning Bush giving us only the bare words,

"I am what I am" -- the divine Person whose

grace is his love offered to ALL the needy

and suffering, without condition.

http://hindsfoot.org/g02sinai.pdf


0 -1 0 0
5722 Glenn Chesnut
Keeping the silkworth.net site online Keeping the silkworth.net site online 5/22/2009 5:57:00 PM


Messages 5630, 5635, and 5636 ("Is the

silkworth.net site down?") made us all aware

of the problem which Jim Meyers has had

keeping the website up and on line, after

his being on disability and unable to work

for the past ten months.



Some of the members of our AAHistoryLovers

group have encouraged Jim to set up a Pay Pal

account for silkworthdotnet, where those of

us who wish to, could do the equivalent of

passing the hat to help the website out.



I know that this goes against our normal

policies in the AAHistoryLovers, but I think

that for the good of the community of AA

historians around the world, we very much

need to post this note on the AAHistoryLovers,

explaining what has now been done to keep

silkworthdotnet going.



The new Silkworth.net Pay Pal account is at:



http://jimm.freevar.com/



Jim Myers says there:



Hello my fellow AAHistoryLovers! First let me

express my gratitude to all of you who emailed

me in support of silkworth.net.



As most of you know, I have been unable to

work for over 10 months due to disability

reasons. It's been a rough year for me. But

I am confident that the future will be much

brighter for me than the present.



My name is Jim Myers, the creator and owner

of silkworth.net. A little history for you.

It was the year 2000 and I was introduced to

computers by my mother. She was on her way

to Canada and she showed me how to use ICQ

instant messaging computer program to

communicate with each other while she was in

Canada -- one of the largest communications

networks on the internet. It was probably about

6 months later, I became bored with ICQ and

decided I was going to teach myself how to

build websites.



It was rough at first and my first attempt was

building a site about UFO's. That didn't last

long. Then while searching the internet about

AA related stuff, I ran accross Mitchell K's

website. I became very interested in AA history

right then and set out to build a website about

AA stuff. I had to study the code of many

websites and learned at a rapid rate.



Oh, before I forget, I took the suggestion of

those who said open a Pay Pal account so anyone

who wishes to help support silkworth.net can.



http://jimm.freevar.com/



Just click on the URL above and you will be

taken to the Pay Pal page where you can help get

silkworth.net back online and keep it online.



OK, where was I? At first, silkworth.net took

on many forms -- completely different than it

is today. Then I started learning other things

about building websites. For instance, whether

silkworth.net was going to look the same in the

four main browsers, and coming to realize that

most people don't want to hear music on the

web pages. So I started making changes to the

site for simplicity reasons till silkworth.net

evolved to where it is today.



I never intended silkworth.net to grow as large

as it is today (almost 2 gigabytes). I also

never expected the site to become so busy (over

a million hits per month). I got a email one

day not to long ago from doteasy.com where

silkworth.net is hosted. They told me I had

to control the bandwidth, which is unlimited,

and a few other things. They said my site was

the cause of all their servers shutting down.



Well, I think I have said enough for now.

Again, I would just like to say thank you and

I am very grateful to you all for your help.



Yours in Service

Ever Grateful

Jim Myers



P.S. I believe I am going to upload all of

silkworth.net to a free web host just in case

silkworth.net goes off line again, which God

forbid. Again, I extend my gratitude to all

of you who wish to help get silkworth.net

back online.


0 -1 0 0
5723 Woodstock
Dr. Bob and Masonry Dr. Bob and Masonry 5/22/2009 11:52:00 PM


I believe that I read somewhere that both

Dr. Bob and Clarence Snyder were fraternal

members of the Free and Accepted Masons

fraternity, though not active during their

AA membership.



I think I read about their membership from an

interview or story written about Clarence, but

I am not sure.



Does anyone have a source or knowledge of

Dr. Bob's Masonic membership?



Jim S.

Pensacola, FL


0 -1 0 0
5724 S Sommers
Re: Early AA meeting formats Early AA meeting formats 5/25/2009 8:41:00 AM


I have heard a recording of a lead by Bill

Dotson, AA number 3, from the first anniversary

of a group - possibly Canton, Ohio's first

birthday celebration.  I believe it's the only

extant lead of Bill D's we have.  In his story

he tells of early meetings when the group

didn't know who was going to lead the meeting

until the meeting itself.  After five minutes

of quiet time, the group members would vote on

who would lead the meeting.

 

My thought is that early formats of meetings

might be recalled in some of the old leads, but

the memory of even the sober worthies may not

be historical fact.  It's a starting point for

knowing about the structure of early meetings.  

It would be interesting to know what was

happening in the "flying blind" period before

the book Alcoholics Anonymous was written.

 

Thanks for everything.

 

Sam Sommers

Elkhart, Indiana

 


0 -1 0 0
5725 buck johnson
Re: Dr. Bob and Masonry Dr. Bob and Masonry 5/23/2009 10:01:00 PM


Mitchell Klein, "How It Worked," Chapter 9



http://www.aabbsg.org/chs/chs09.htm



"Clarence became involved with the Masons

in Florida. Like Dr. Bob, Clarence was a 32°

Mason."



- - - -



"Bruce C." <brucecl2002@yahoo.com>

(brucecl2002 at yahoo.com)



Also refers us to Mitchell K.'s "How It Worked"



- - - -



From: jdf10487@yahoo.com (jdf10487 at yahoo.com)



The following article claims that Dr. Bob was

a Mason.



Sincerely, Jim F.



http://www.worldviewtimes.com/article.php/articleid-3537



"Dr. Bob was a Mason. Suspended in 1934, he

gained reinstatement after being sober for

some years."



The endnote gives Cedric L. Smith, PGM, Grand

Secretary of Masons in Vermont, as the source

of this information.



- - - -

 

Note from the moderator:



I would suggest that some member of our group

who is a Mason check the Vermont Masonic records

to see if everything in that last statement

(especially the part about Dr. Bob being

"suspended" and all that) is in fact correct,

before anybody repeats all that information.



- - - -



More importantly though, if Dr. Bob was a good

Mason, then he believed that all you had to do

to be approved in God's eyes was to be an

ethical monotheist. Although most American

Masons were Protestants, Jews were also allowed

to join.



So Masons beleived in one God, the Great

Architect who had designed and created this

universe, and in living a life of honesty and

the highest moral principles, based on God's

Moral Law.



But you did NOT have to believe in the divinity

of Jesus Christ to be a Mason, nor was anyone

required to accept Jesus Christ as their

personal savior.



A number of American presidents were Masons:

George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew

Jackson, James Knox Polk, James Buchanan,

Andrew Johnson, James Abram Garfield, William

McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard

Taft, Warren Gamaliel Harding, Franklin Delano

Roosevelt, Harry S Truman, Gerald R. Ford, Jr.,

and Lyndon Baines Johnson.



The U.S. Declaration of Independence reflected

this same Deist and Masonic conception of God

and the universal moral law. If we observe

"the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God,"

it is a self-evident truth, the declaration

proclaimed, "that all men are created equal,

that they are endowed by their Creator with

certain unalienable Rights, that among these

are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."



http://www.givemeliberty.org/DOCS/DECLARATION.HTM



This is the core of AA's moral code: Treat

all other men and women with respect as human

beings equal in importance (in God's eyes)

to ourselves. Respect other people's rights

at all times. Show tolerance to all, and

give everyone else the Liberty to live their

own lives on their own principles -- I have

NO RIGHT to act like a tyrant and try to

impose my will and my beliefs on anyone else.

When I am in bitter conflict with other people,

I must ask myself, which do I want? to be right

or to be happy? Sane people (most of the time)

choose "the pursuit of Happiness" in those

situations as their goal.



Dr. Bob was 55 years old when he met Bill W.

and got sober. It doesn't matter what was

preached by some religious youth group that Dr.

Bob had belonged 40 or 50 years earlier. How

many of us still believe when we are 55 what

we believed when we were 5 or 10 years old?



If Dr. Bob had joined the Masons, then this

means that AS AN ADULT he had come to accept

the principle that all God required of us

human beings was that we recognize Him

as the creator (the Great Architect of the

universe) and as the Author of a universal

moral law which intelligent people could work

out for themselves, using their own conscience

and their own common sense, without having to

appeal to any church doctrines or dogmas or

holy books.



Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


0 -1 0 0
5726 Matt Dingle
Re: Early AA meeting formats Early AA meeting formats 5/25/2009 2:55:00 PM


Early AA meeting formats: see Message #5300



http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5300



"How early AA meetings were held in Akron and

Cleveland."



Matt D.



- - - -



Also see Message #5301



http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5301



and also see numerous passages in "Dr. Bob and

the Good Oldtimers."



There was considerable flux (and considerable

variety) in the way AA meetings were conducted

during the early period.



GFC


0 -1 0 0
5727 mrpetesplace
27th Annual Manitoba Conference, Winnipeg, 1971 27th Annual Manitoba Conference, Winnipeg, 1971 5/23/2009 2:36:00 PM


I have a plaque with pictures of Bill and Bob

on it, that comes from the 27th Annual Manitoba

Conference in Winnipeg in 1971.



For Bill it has 1895 - 1971 so I know it was

made sometime later that year after Bill passed

(he died on 24 January at the beginning of 1971).



I have a picture of it at



http://www.aastuff.com/plaque



I know it is about 38 years old but am curious

to know more about when the conference was held

or any information on it.



Also, any information on this plaque would be

great. Were there more of them made? I'm thinking

it was a centerpiece for the podium at conference

or perhaps might have been given to quest

speakers (in which case, more than one would

have been made).



Thank you in advance for help.


0 -1 0 0
5728 James Flynn
Re: Early AA meeting formats Early AA meeting formats 5/25/2009 2:55:00 PM


What happened during the flying blind period

was Bill and Bob had lots and lots of failed

attempts at trying to get and keep alcoholics

sober.  Bill D. was AA number 3. 

 

There have always been small number of

alcoholics who have gotten sober through

religious conversion and even the psycho-

logical approach (see Richard Peabody's

"The Common Sense of Drinking).

 

The Washintonians were perhaps the first to

show that sobriety could be mass produced,

followed later by Alcoholics Anonymous, but

there may have been other large movements

throughout the course of history that have

arisen and faded away.

 

Sincerely, Jim F.



- - - -



From: S Sommers <scmws@yahoo.com>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Early AA meeting formats

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, May 25, 2009, 5:41 AM



I have heard a recording of a lead by Bill

Dotson, AA number 3, from the first anniversary

of a group - possibly Canton, Ohio's first

birthday celebration.  I believe it's the only

extant lead of Bill D's we have.  In his story

he tells of early meetings when the group

didn't know who was going to lead the meeting

until the meeting itself.  After five minutes

of quiet time, the group members would vote on

who would lead the meeting.

 

My thought is that early formats of meetings

might be recalled in some of the old leads, but

the memory of even the sober worthies may not

be historical fact.  It's a starting point for

knowing about the structure of early meetings.  

It would be interesting to know what was

happening in the "flying blind" period before

the book Alcoholics Anonymous was written.

 

Thanks for everything.

 

Sam Sommers

Elkhart, Indiana

 


0 -1 0 0
5729 jenny andrews
RE: Four essays on spirituality Four essays on spirituality 5/23/2009 4:43:00 AM


DONALD REEVES



There is a powerful description of "deflation

at depth" in Donald Reeves' autobiograpy.*

Reeves, now a retired Anglican priest, told

how in the 1950s he experienced his own rock

bottom, viz:



"Over the days I received what I can only

describe as a gift, not mediated by anyone or

anything. The gift came with the words,

'Do not fear; you will be all right.'



PAUL TILLICH



Years later in a sermon by Paul Tillich, in

"The Shaking of the Foundations", I recognised

what I experienced in that Beirut church:



'We cannot transform our lives, unless we allow

them to be transformed by a stroke of grace.



It happens; or it does not happen ... Grace

strikes us when we are in great pain and

restlessness. It strikes us when we walk through

the dark valley of a meaningless and empty life

... It strikes us when the longed-for perfection

of life does not appear, when the old compulsions

reign within us as they have for decades, when

despair destroys all joy and courage.



Sometimes at that moment a wave of light breaks

into our darkness, and it is as though a voice

were saying, 'You are accepted, you are accepted,

accepted by that which is greater than you, and

the name of which you do not know.



Do not ask for the name now; perhaps you will

find it later. Do not try to do anything now;

perhaps later you will do much. Do not seek

for anything; do not perform anything; do not

intend anything. Simply accept the fact that

you are accepted!'



If that happens to us, we experience grace. After

such an experience we may not be better than

before, and we may not believe more than before.

But everything is transformed.'



Theologians and preachers sometimes say far

too much. I was not transformed there and then,

but I recognised enough in Tillich's words which

resonated with my own life.



Atheists irritated by this 'emotional waffle'

say: 'You were just exhausted and wanted a break'.'

To which I respond: 'You are right, but why

reduce everything to just? Can't you understand

the depth and width of what I am describing?'

They say: 'Why can't we have this experience,

then?' And I respond: 'I do not know'. At which

point the conversation falters."



REEVES ON A.A. MEETINGS



In an earlier book Reeves described an AA meeting

as "an arena of hope".



____________________________



*The memoirs of a 'very dangerous man';

Donald Reeves; Continuum; 2009. ("A very

dangerous man" is how Margaret Thatcher

described Reeves when she was UK prime

minister and he priest at St James's church,

Piccadily, London!)



- - - -



Original message from: glennccc@sbcglobal.net

Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 14:12:55 -0700

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Four essays on spirituality



"Mount Sinai and the Burning Bush: The Cloud

of Unknowing, the Altar to the Unknown God, and

the Dark Night of the Soul." In order to find

a God of our understanding, we first have to

let go of all our old misconceptions about God,

the universe, and ourselves, and make the ascent

up Mount Sinai, following Moses into the Cloud

of Unknowing. As we continue to climb further

and further into the doubt and anguish of the

Dark Night of the Soul, we use the twelve steps

to guide us into a radical reframing of all the

presuppositions of our lives. Disoriented within

the infinite and all-encompassing Mystery, we

discover the God of the empty altar -- the

Altar to the Unknown God, the Agnosto Theo

(Acts 17:23-28) -- and hear the voice from the

Burning Bush giving us only the bare words,

"I am what I am" -- the divine Person whose

grace is his love offered to ALL the needy

and suffering, without condition.



http://hindsfoot.org/g02sinai.pdf



- - - -



Also see AA historian Richard M. Dubiel,

"Paul Tillich: Key Philosophical Theologian

of the Mid-Twentieth Century"



http://hindsfoot.org/dubtill.html



Also see two chapters by Glenn Chesnut

on Paul Tillich (and Albert Einstein) at



http://hindsfoot.org/pers2.pdf



Chapter 10 (pp. 56 ff.) "Paul Tillich:

An Impersonal Ground of Being"



Chapter 11 (pp. 69 ff.) "Tillich and Einstein"


0 -1 0 0
5730 silkworthdotnet
silkworth.net is back! silkworth.net is back! 5/25/2009 5:13:00 PM


silkworth.net <http://www.silkworth.net/>



is back!



I just want to say thank you for all of your

support and to those individuals who helped make

this possible. For those who helped make this

happen, I will be contacting you according to

how you entered your contact information. This

has been an overwhelming experience for me!



Yours in service,

Ever grateful,



Jim Myers


0 -1 0 0
5731 mrpetesplace
The silkworth.net site plus links to other AA history sites, please The silkworth.net site plus links to other AA history sites, please 5/23/2009 2:39:00 PM


I have added some information and links to



http://aastuff.com/



for the effort to keep silkworth.net online

and running. Silkworth.net is probably the best

of all the history sites.



But remember there are 20 sites at this time

linked with my search engine, and I am always

looking to add more with AA history, even if

it is just your local history.



So please send me any references to local AA

history sites which I can post links to, that

is what I need most.



peter@aastuff.com (peter at aastuff.com)


0 -1 0 0
5732 Glenn Chesnut
Dr. Bob was a Mason Dr. Bob was a Mason 5/26/2009 2:04:00 PM


From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com)

 

Confirmation from Cedric Smith:

 

I have a Robert H. Smith who was a member of

our Passumpsic Lodge No. 27 located in

St. Johnsbury, Vermont. He joined the Masons

Lodge on February 12, 1903 and died on

November 16, 1950.



I have a William B. Wilson who was a member of

our Franklin Lodge No. 4 located in St. Albans,

Vermont. He joined the Masons Lodge on December

4, 1849 and was dropped in 1860.



I hope this help in you with your research.



Cedric Smith



- - - -



From the moderator:



This first figure must have been Dr. Bob =

Robert Holbrook Smith (August 8, 1879 -

November 16, 1950), co-founder of Alcoholics

Anonymous.  Dr. Bob graduated from Dartmouth

College in 1902, and seems to have joined the

Masons in the following year.



- - - -



It is not clear who the other person was. It

is the wrong middle initial and completely

wrong dates to be AA's Bill Wilson:



Bill W. = William Griffith Wilson (November 26,

1895 - January 24, 1971), co-founder of Alcoholics

Anonymous. Could it have been one of his relatives?

 

Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)



- - - -



See original Message #5725, which cites

Cedric L. Smith, PGM, Grand Secretary of Masons

in Vermont, as the source of the information

that Dr. Bob was a Mason:

 

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5725

 


0 -1 0 0
5733 nuevenueve@ymail.com
The forgotten steps The forgotten steps 5/26/2009 7:17:00 PM


Hi Group:



Historically speaking, when, where, and why

did Steps 6 & 7 come to be called "The Forgotten

Steps"?



Regards



Hugo


0 -1 0 0
5734 tomvlll
How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? 5/28/2009 8:36:00 AM


How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the

rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did

they have segregated meetings?


0 -1 0 0
5735 kodom2545
Origins of the Circle and Triangle: Masonic influence? Origins of the Circle and Triangle: Masonic influence? 5/27/2009 4:58:00 PM


I was watching a documentary on the Masons in the founding of our nation and I

noticed on one of the Masonic garments of our founding fathers there was the

circle and triangle that AA has used.



I am well aware that the symbol has been around a very long time before we

decided to use it, but I was wondering what previous cultures, groups, or

entities used/use it?



Also, Who selected it as an AA symbol?



God Bless,



Kyle


0 -1 0 0
5736 Tom Hickcox
Re: The forgotten steps The forgotten steps 5/27/2009 5:49:00 PM


At 18:17 5/26/2009, Hugo wrote:



>Hi Group:

>

>Historically speaking, when, where, and why

>did Steps 6 & 7 come to be called "The Forgotten

>Steps"?



Post #2559 by Arthur S. on July 26, 2005 starts:



The June 1952 Grapevine had an article titled "The Forgotten Steps."

However, it focuses on Steps 8 and 9 as opposed to 6 and 7.



Prior to the Big Book, the recovery program consisted of 6 Steps

passed on to new members by word of mouth. 3 differing versions of the

6 Steps appear in AA literature: "The Language of the Heart" (pg 200)

"AA Comes of Age" (pg 160) "Pass It On" (pg 190) and Big Book Pioneer

story "He Sold Himself Short" (pg 263 - 4th ed) The variations in

wording help illustrate the difficulties that can occur when something

is passed on solely by word-of-mouth.



It may be helpful to read the entire post.



Tommy H in Baton Rouge


0 -1 0 0
5737 tomper87
Re: The forgotten steps The forgotten steps 5/28/2009 11:27:00 PM


The Twelve Steps Of Alcoholics Anonymous:

Interpreted By The Hazelden Foundation (Paperback)

1993



STEPS SIX AND SEVEN: The Forgotten Steps



This is one such source but may not be the original.



Tom P.



- - - -



From the moderator:



This book or pamphlet seems like it may have

been written by someone named James Brandon.



If you Google for "forgotten steps," there are

other references in things written about AA,

where the phrase seems to regularly refer to

Steps Six and Seven.



They tend to be "forgotten," these pieces

usually state, because people jump from doing

their fourth and fifth steps to doing their

eighth and ninths steps too quickly, and then

cannot understand why they still feel so much

mental turmoil and inner unhappiness.



And they tend be "forgotten," it is frequently

stated, because people forget to call on God

for help -- or are too scared of God to turn to

Him for help.



So we help people deal with Steps Six and

Seven by encouraging them to trust God and

not be afraid of God, and recognize that God

is here to help us, without scolding or

condemnation, if we just ask for His help.



(We don't help people in the slightest if

all we do is scold them, and berate them,

and accuse them of worshiping light bulbs

and door knobs. People aren't stupid. But

alcoholics DO feel a whole lot of fear and

guilt over the things they have done.)



That's in the pieces I looked at, but there

may be a lot more written on this topic.



Glenn C., Moderator



P.S. There is a good discussion of one way

of working the sixth and seventh steps,

based on Father Ralph Pfau, in



"The Right Side of the Page"

by John Barleycorn

http://hindsfoot.org/barright.html



John makes these "Virtue Chips" out of

maple and walnut and other fine woods

in his workshop in Fort Wayne, Indiana.


0 -1 0 0
5738 Al Welch
Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? 5/29/2009 2:21:00 PM


According to page 129 of the book " Thank You

For Sharing" as late as August 1967 in places

like Pass Christian, Mississippi, the meetings

were still segregated.


0 -1 0 0
5739 Ernest Kurtz
Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? 5/29/2009 2:47:00 PM


Most briefly: When asked about that, Bill W.

said that while AAs should never exclude

anyone who honestly wanted to stop drinking

from their meetings, "we are not out to change

the world," and so should abide by the customs

of the place. And so if the place where

meetings were held was segregated, AAs should

respect that. I believe that this was about

the time in the 1940s that President Truman

was desegregating the armed forces, and so

before the peak of the mid-1950s movement that

led to the Supreme Court's "Brown decision."



ernie kurtz



- - - -



On May 28, 2009, at 8:36 AM, tomvlll wrote:

>

>

> How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the

> rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did

> they have segregated meetings?

>

>


0 -1 0 0
5740 Tom Hickcox
Re: Origins of the Circle and Triangle: Masonic influence? Origins of the Circle and Triangle: Masonic influence? 5/29/2009 4:35:00 PM


At 15:58 5/27/2009, kodom2545 wrote:



========================================

>I was watching a documentary on the Masons in the founding of our

>nation and I noticed on one of the Masonic garments of our founding

>fathers there was the circle and triangle that AA has used.

>I am well aware that the symbol has been around a very long time

>before we decided to use it, but I was wondering what previous

>cultures, groups, or entities used/use it?

========================================



I know Centenary-South United Church of Canada in Rock Island,

Quebec, has it on its facade and I have always associated it with

that denomination. However, their web site has nothing that I could

find on it.



========================================

>Also, Who selected it as an AA symbol?

========================================



From As Bill Sees It p. 307, referring to A.A. Comes of Age p . 139:



"Circle and Triangle



"Above us, at the International Convention at St. Louis in 1955,

floated a banner on which was inscribed the then new symbol for A.A.,

a circle enclosing a triangle. The circle stands for the whole world

of A.A., the triangle stands for A.A.'s Three Legacies: Recovery,

Unity, and Service.



"It is perhaps no accident that priests and seers of antiquity

regarded this symbol as a means of warding off spirits of evil."



Tommy H in Baton Rouge


0 -1 0 0
5741 David
Re: Origins of the Circle and Triangle Origins of the Circle and Triangle 5/30/2009 12:55:00 PM


In aikido, a "martial art" strongly influenced by principles of the Oomoto

religion, this circle and triangle symbol is used. "These concepts address the

distance, contact, connection, blending, balance breaking, lines of attacks and

centerlines, timing, and the lingering spirit connection that leaves a lasting

impression after the conflict is successfully and peacefully concluded."

Advanced Aikido (Dang & Seiser, 2006.)



- - - -



In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

Tom Hickcox <cometkazie1@...> wrote:



From As Bill Sees It p. 307, referring to A.A.

Comes of Age p . 139:



"Above us, at the International Convention at

St. Louis in 1955, floated a banner on which

was inscribed the then new symbol for A.A.,

a circle enclosing a triangle .... It is perhaps

no accident that priests and seers of antiquity

regarded this symbol as a means of warding off

spirits of evil."



Tommy H in Baton Rouge


0 -1 0 0
5742 David
Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? 5/30/2009 12:35:00 PM


There is an excellent set of articles at



http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html



on the Hindsfoot Foundation website, edited/compiled

by Glenn C.



- - - -



Note from the moderator: this was not about "the

South" as opposed to "the North." These articles

are about the northern U.S. area running from

Chicago through Gary to South Bend, and show a

pattern of hostility towards black people trying

to join AA, as late as 1948 to 1950.



Only three or four of the house meetings in

South Bend (a totally northern U.S. city) would

allow black people to attend AA meetings at

all, and they made them sit in the kitchen,

instead of in the living room, where the AA

meeting was being conducted, and made them

drink their coffee out of cups with cracks

or chips in them (there are multiple attestations

of that latter fact coming from black oldtimers

who had come in during that period). They

could listen to the white people speak, but

were not allowed to speak themselves.



Black AA members had to stand at the back of

the room at the weekly open speaker meeting,

and if they attempted to go up afterwards and

shake the speaker's hand, the speaker would

turn away and refuse to shake hands with

them.



These articles describe the events in which

some heroic black people stood their ground,

and insisted on obtaining entry into the

AA program. And their story culminated in

a triumphant endings, as black people like

Bill Hoover, Brownie, and Goshen Bill became

some of the most important -- and most loved

and respected -- AA leaders during the

1970's and 80's in South Bend and the

surrounding Indiana area.



(It shoud also be noted that the white churches

were still blocking black people from attending

-- most black people, most of the time,

in the North as well as in the South --

as late as the 1960's and later, so AA

opened its doors to black members twenty

years or more before most of the churches in

the U.S.)



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"tomvlll" <tomvlll@...> wrote:

>

> How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the

> rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did

> they have segregated meetings?

>


0 -1 0 0
5743 Baileygc23@aol.com
Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal w... How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal w... 5/30/2009 3:23:00 AM


It seems that Bill W did try to integrate AA

from the very beginning, but he had objections

from members from the start. Bill kept his ties

to African Americans and gradually introduced

them to the larger AA community. Some of our

people with an accurate memory for dates, can

give a date for Jim S. (Jim's Story in the Big

Book) sobriety. It seems to be about time of

the war years, But AA writing suggests Bill W

had worked with alcoholics who happened to be

African Americans or who otherwise did not

seem to fit the mold of being middle class,

white, heterosexual, etc., prior to World War

II. Even in DC at that early date Jim's story

shows how the local AA's helped him and

accepted him and helped him to start a group

that I think is still going. There is a question

as to Bill W or Dr Bob getting the first African

American into an AA group in the early days.


0 -1 0 0
5744 Dean at ComPlanners
The six steps The six steps 5/30/2009 4:48:00 PM


AAHistoryLoversTom Hickcox, quoting Post #2559

by Arthur S. from July 26, 2005, wrote:



" ... Prior to the Big Book, the recovery

program consisted of 6 Steps passed on to new

members by word of mouth. 3 differing versions

of the 6 Steps appear in AA literature: 'The

Language of the Heart' (pg 200), 'AA Comes of

Age' (pg 160), 'Pass It On' (pg 190), and Big

Book Pioneer story 'He Sold Himself Short'

(pg 263 - 4th ed). The variations in wording

help illustrate the difficulties that can

occur when something is passed on solely by

word-of-mouth."



[Text of these six-step summaries also in

http://hindsfoot.org/steps6.html ]



Another variation in wording appears on page

12 of "Three talks to Medical Societies by

Bill W., co-founder of AA" (P-6, 7/03). There,

Bill lists the six "principles" Ebby "applied

... to himself in 1934."



Note too that in the text of the second talk

(same pamphlet), Bill reduces the 12 Steps to

5 steps/concepts/principles/whatever (see page

29): "Boiled down, these Steps mean, simply:

a. Admission of alcoholism; b. Personality

analysis and catharsis; c. Adjustment of

personal relations; d. Dependence upon some

Higher Power; e. Working with other alcoholics"



(Also, the version of the 6 Steps in my

"Pass It On" appears on page 197 rather than

on page 190.)



Dean


0 -1 0 0
5745 jenny andrews
Re: Origins of the Circle and Triangle Origins of the Circle and Triangle 5/31/2009 3:50:00 AM


A Catholic priest told me that in Christian iconography the circle and triangle

stand for the unbroken circle of eternity and the Holy Trinity. It appears in

the architecture, stained glass and artefacts of churches, cathedrals etc. I

first saw it in a window at the Anglican parish church at Nympsfield,

Gloucestershire, England, while attending a service during a retreat for AA and

Al-Anon members; inspired synchronicity!

AA World Services (AAWS) discontinued using the circle and triangle on AA

generated material after the US general service conference in 1993. The story is

told in the December 1993 issue of the Grapevine, viz: "Adopted at the 20th

anniversary international convention in St Louis, the circle and triangle symbol

was registered as an official AA mark in 1955 ... By the mid-1980s, however, it

had also begun to be used by outside organisations, such as novelty

manufacturers, publishers and occasionally treatment facilities. There was

growing concern in the membership of AA about this situation. Some AA members

were saying 'we don't want our circle and triangle aligned with non-AA

purposes'. In keeping with the Sixth Tradition ... AAWS board began to contact

outside entities that were using the circle and triangle in an unauthorised

manner, and to take action to prevent such use of the symbol. AAWS implemented

this policy with restraint, and did not resort to legal remedies until all

attempts at persuasion and conciliation had been unsuccessful... Denying the use

of the symbol to outside entities raised other problems, however. By early 1990s

it was clear that some AA members very much wanted to be able to obtain

medallions with 'our' circle and triangle ... At the 1992 conference there were

presentations on why we should or should not produce medallions, and on the

responsibility of AAWS to protect our trademarks and copyright ... (Conference

asked the trustees to undertake a feasibility study and report back to an ad hoc

committee of delegates). The committee ... presented its report and

recommendations (to Conference 1993) and Conference approved two of five

recommendations:- 1) that the use of sobriety chips/medallions is a matter of

local autonomy ... and 2) it is not appropriate for AAWS or the Grapevine to

produce or license the production of chips /medallions ... The chips and

trademark questions were dealt with as separately as possible ... Immediately

after the conference the general service board accepted AAWS's recommendation to

discontinue protecting the circle and triangle symbol as one of AAWs's

registered marks and by early June the trustees reached substantial unanimity in

support of AAWS's statement that, to avoid the suggestion of association or

affiliation with outside goods and services, AAWS Inc would phase out the

'official' or 'legal' use of the circle and triangle ... Like the Serenity

Prayer and slogans, which have never had official recognition, the circle and

triangle will most likely continue to be used widely for many AA purposes. The

difference from earlier practice is that its official use to denote Alcoholics

Anonymous materials will be phased out.



Laurie A.



- - - -



CIRCLE AND TRIANGLE LOGOS:



Civil Air Patrol:

http://www.caphistory.org/museum_exh_1.html



Civil Defense:

http://museumcollections.in.gov/detail.php?t=objects&type=browse&f=object_type&s\

=Booklet&record=15




YMCA:

http://www.hymca.jp/fukuyama/nihongo/english/ymca_message/index.html

http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=1599054



Sons of Temperance:

http://www.sonsoftemperance.abelgratis.co.uk/



Hamilton Bulldogs sports logo:

http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=2147



Pittsburgh Penguins sports logo:

http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=269



NASA mission patch:

http://imageevent.com/publicgallery/photography/symbolsandlofos000?p=79&n=1&m=-1\

&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9




Pyramid (triangle) in a circle on the back of the U.S. dollar bill:

http://www.unique-design.net/library/myth/image.html



Asian:

http://www.sparksdojo.com

http://www.longchenfoundation.org/aboutSymbol.html



holistic medicine:

http://www.rmholistics.com/blog/?page_id=2&action=lostpassword



Cemetery of Montparnasse in Paris:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwr/217532490/



Magic symbolism (Solomon's Triangle):

http://www.thelemapedia.org/images/2/2a/Goetia2.jpg

http://www.answers.com/topic/magic-circle-2



Health Occupations Students of America

http://www.david-ho.com/HOSA/About.html


0 -1 0 0
5746 M.J. Johnson
Pensions to GSO Personnel Pensions to GSO Personnel 6/1/2009 7:28:00 AM


Does anyone have any historical background regarding the institution of

pensions for GSO workers? I'm trying to determine if the pensions that GSO

employees & members of the Board of Trustees are eligible for came into

existence out a Conference advisory action, or if it was part of the

original charter, or just exactly what the history around it was...



Many thanks,



- M.J.


0 -1 0 0
5747 Jon Markle
Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? 5/30/2009 4:26:00 PM


Anecdotal: early on in my sobriety, in Wilmington NC, (about 25 years

ago), I remember remarking that there were no black people in AA

meetings. I was informed "they" had their own meetings. I found out

they met just down the street where from where I was living at the

time, in "shanty town" in my sobriety shack! I visited the meeting

and it was a bit strange, the looks.



During the same time period, I got involved with starting the area's

only gay group. Our first round up, we invited a black gay man to be

our featured guest speaker. I believe he had over 30 years at the

time. And his story was something of the AA history of both black

people and gay people in the area, from NYC on down the Eastern/

southeastern Seaboard. I wish I had a copy of that talk. I know now

how remarkable his journey was.



As I remember it, it was a struggle that I do not think I could have

made. I probably would not have been able to stay sober under those

conditions, feeling that sort of persecution in the rooms, let alone

in the life outside the rooms.



AA has some very ugly history, as does America in general. And we

still have a long way to go.



I'm reminded that unless we learn from our past, we are doomed to

repeat it.



Hugs for the trudge.



Jon (Raleigh)

9/9/82



- - - -



From: Michael Oates

<mso2941@yahoo.com> (mso2941 at yahoo.com)



This is great information. About ten years

ago the Pope issued an apology for the

Catholic Church's actions in dealing with

segregation. Has AA ever offered an amends

for its behavior during this period of Americana?



- - - -



PHOTOS OF BROWNIE'S, the AA meeting set up

by one of the great early black leaders in

northern Indiana AA, and some of the people

from Chicago and South Bend who have been

supporting this historic site:



http://hindsfoot.org/ndigsym.html



http://www.geocities.com/glennccc@sbcglobal.net/digsym01.html



http://www.geocities.com/glennccc@sbcglobal.net/digsym02.html



TRANSCRIPTION OF RECORDINGS OF BLACK LEADERS

SPEAKING (early Chicago and South Bend AA):



http://hindsfoot.org/nblack1.html



http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack2.html



http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack3.html



THE WISDOM OF GOSHEN BILL (another early

black leader from northern Indiana AA):



http://hindsfoot.org/nkosc3gb.html



- - - -



From: <aadavidi@yahoo.com> (aadavidi at yahoo.com)



I was told by a member raised in coastal South Carolina about the experience of

an

A.A. group in the Myrtle Beach, S.C. area during the Jim Crow days. It seems a

black

man came to this group seeking help and being an alcoholic they knew they were

obliged to do what they could for him. Of course the local laws forbid his

entering the same building with the white folks. They held a group conscience,

prayed on the matter and someone came up with the idea of placing a chair in the

doorway for the black man to sit in during the meetings. This way the law was

not violated because he was not exactly included nor was our 3rd tradition

violated because he was not exactly excluded.



- - - -



From: Sober186@aol.com (Sober186 at aol.com)



About 15 or 20 years ago I listened to a panel of Old Timers at a local

gathering which included an Afrcan American. He related that he had been in the

Air Force based in a southern state, and after several drunken escapades, his

commanding officer ordered him to attend AA meetings. There were no "Colored

Only" meetings.



The community or state had laws which made it illegal for blacks to attend any

gathering with whites, but he showed up at the local AA meeting anyway. The

members of the local AA group decided they could place a chair for lthe African

American in the hallway just outside the door of their meeting room. The members

then arranged their own chairs so that the black man was included in the circle,

even though he would not technically be in the same room in which the meeting

for whites was held.



Jim L.

Columbus, Ohio


0 -1 0 0
5748 azmikefitz
Re: Early AA meeting formats Early AA meeting formats 5/30/2009 7:42:00 PM


As some of the group members are aware recently we launched a new website that

hosts many early A.A. talks, www.recoveryspeakers.org, one talk that will be of

interest related to the early times is "Annv of St Thomas" Sister Ignatia. This

recording has several of the members from the Kings School original group

speaking at the beginning of the meeting, followed by a great talk by Bill W.

and a very short talk by Sister Ignatia, her last recorded talk.



Bob E. sober since 1936 talks a bit about going upstairs at T Henry's house in

Akron.



Please note that this site is now available for free downloading but does need

support. In our first week we have averaged 100 visitors per day who have been

enjoying thousands of downloaded talks.



The comments we have received have been wonderful and we are most grateful for

any support.



Sincerely,



Mike F


0 -1 0 0
5749 johnlawlee
Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? 6/1/2009 7:48:00 PM


--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"tomvlll" <tomvlll@...> wrote:

>

> How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the

> rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did

> they have segregated meetings?

>



The Jim Crow laws were limited to public

accomodations, so they would have had little

to do with AA. Private gatherings were not

restricted by the Jim Crow laws.



About the only time the Jim Crow laws would

have come into play would have been where

an AA meeting was held in a public facility,

such as a school, courthouse, train station,

restaurant or town hall. Blacks would have

had to use designated restrooms and drinking

fountains in those buildings.



I suspect Bill Wilson's concern in the period

1940-64 was to not involve AA in an area of

public controversy. Bill was about as

colorblind and inclusive as they came, but

he was very sensitive on public perception

of the Fellowship.



John Lee

Pittsburgh


0 -1 0 0
5750 jenny andrews
First black AA group was in Washington D.C. First black AA group was in Washington D.C. 6/2/2009 4:14:00 AM


Did Jim's Story first appear in the Big Book

in the second edition? ("This physician, one

of the earliest members of AA's first black

group, tells of how freedom came as he worked

among his people.")



The group was in Washington: "... we met at

Ella G.'s. It was Charlie G. and three or four

others. That was the first meeting of a

colored group in AA as far as I know ...



Charlie, my sponsor was white, and when we

got our group started, we got help from other

white groups in Washington. They came, many

of them, and stuck by us and told us how to

hold meetings ..."



Anyone know the date, it was after 1940?



Jim was born in Virginia. He wrote, "I don't

think I suffered too much as far as the

racial situation was concerned because I

was born into it and knew nothing other

than that. A man (sic) wasn't actually

mistreated, though if he was, he could only

resent it. He could do nothing about it...

On the other hand, I got quite a different

picture farther south..."



Laurie A.


0 -1 0 0
5751 Glenn Chesnut
First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? 6/2/2009 6:32:00 PM


WASHINGTON, D.C.



Jim's Story in the Big Book (Jim Scott MD,

Washington, DC). Some regard this as having

been the first black AA group: April 1945.



Big Book, 2nd edition #471, 3rd edition #483,

4th edition 232



http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm



(or http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html )



This account says (but without giving a date):



"When repairing an electric outlet for a

friend, to earn some drinking money, he met

Ella G., whom he had known years before but

didn't recognize. Ella arranged for Jim to

meet 'Charlie G.' who became his sponsor.

Charlie was a white man. The following Sunday

he met with Ella, Charlie, and three or four

others at Ella's house. 'That was the first

meeting of a colored group in A.A.,' so far

as Jim knew."



"Jim spoke at the 'God as We Understand Him'

meeting held Sunday morning at the International

Convention in St. Louis in 1955. Bill wrote in

'A.A. Comes of Age:'"



"'Deep silence fell as Dr. Jim S., the A.A.

speaker, told of his life experience and the

serious drinking that led to the crises which

had brought about his spiritual awakening.

He re-enacted for us his own struggle to start

the very first group among Negroes, his own

people. Aided by a tireless and eager wife,

he had turned his home into a combined hospital

and A.A. meeting place, free to all. He told

how early failure had finally been transformed

under God's grace into amazing success, we who

listened realized that A.A., not only could

cross seas and mountains and boundaries of

language and nation but could surmount obstacles

of race and creed as well.'"



Bob Pearson, Manuscript of A.A. World History,

page 44, gives a date:



"The Washington Colored Group was founded in

April '45 by Jimmy S. It later changed its

name to the Cosmopolitan Group to convey the

fact that it was 'a group for all people, all

races; it doesn't matter who you are.'"

____________________________________



CHICAGO:



Chicago however appears to have had a black AA

group started a month earlier, in March 1945:



http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack3.html



GLENN: Now what year did you come into A.A.

in Chicago?



BILL WILLIAMS: I think it 'uz, umn ....



JIMMY H.: Forty-five .... It was December '45.

Cause [Earl] Redmond came in in March, you told

me ....



BILL WILLIAMS: But anyway, I know Redmond

came in in March, and I came in that following

December.



GLENN: So when you came to South Bend [in 1948]

you had about four or five years sobriety behind

you? You had a good program by then.



BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah, I was pretty solid. I

knew by that time that it was going to work . . . .



GLENN: Now when you came into A.A. in Chicago,

in 1945, did you hit trouble there too? Was

there a color bar .... there in Chicago in

1945? I don't know anything about Chicago.



BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah! Yeah, it was the same

thing. It's still prejudiced, even now [1999].



GLENN: How did you deal with that? In Chicago,

in 1945?



BILL WILLIAMS: Well, I was born in Texas.



RAYMOND: He's a cowboy! [Laughter]

____________________________________



So what further information can our AA historians

from Washington D.C. and Chicago give us? I

know that in Chicago, the Evans Avenue group

still meets, although they have moved to a new

location. I have visited their new building,

and there were photographs of Earl Redmond

and so on, and there also appeared to be a

lot of other material there of great archival

significance.



Glenn C.


0 -1 0 0
5752 Tom Hickcox
Re: How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? How did AA in Southern U.S. in 40''s and 50''s deal with Jim Crow? 6/2/2009 4:54:00 PM


At 18:48 6/1/2009, johnlawlee wrote:



>--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

>"tomvlll" <tomvlll@...> wrote:

> >

> > How did AA deal with the Jim Crow laws (the

> > rigid segregation laws) of that period? Did

> > they have segregated meetings?

> >

>

>The Jim Crow laws were limited to public

>accomodations, so they would have had little

>to do with AA. Private gatherings were not

>restricted by the Jim Crow laws.

>

>About the only time the Jim Crow laws would

>have come into play would have been where

>an AA meeting was held in a public facility,

>such as a school, courthouse, train station,

>restaurant or town hall. Blacks would have

>had to use designated restrooms and drinking

>fountains in those buildings.

>

>I suspect Bill Wilson's concern in the period

>1940-64 was to not involve AA in an area of

>public controversy. Bill was about as

>colorblind and inclusive as they came, but

>he was very sensitive on public perception

>of the Fellowship.



I would say this oversimplifies it quite a bit.



I do remember in the early '60s the police

pulling blacks out of white churches and whites

out of black churches in the south without any

request from the congregations. Separation

meant separation. Bus stations, train stations,

airports, movie theaters, sports stadia were

segregated.



I moved to Shreveport, Louisiana, in the fall

of 1946, and, except for several years in the

middle '60s, have lived in Louisiana since

and observed segregation up close. I

attended Centenary College in Shreveport,

class of 1961. By the time I graduated, some

of my fellow students were making contacts in

the black community. While there was no

reaction by the college administration, there

was from the community and politicians.

Waking up in the morning and finding garbage

on your lawn was the first sign you had

disturbed the powers that were.



While private gatherings may not have been

unlawful, they were often noticed and there

likely were consequences.



Tommy H in Baton Rouge


0 -1 0 0
5753 Cindy Miller
Re: First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? 6/5/2009 11:18:00 AM


On Sunday, March 22, 2009, members of my HomeGroup rented a van and

we drove to Washington, DC - where the Reeves Club was holding its'

"4th Annual AA Old-Timers Speakers Jamm"

This event was also a celebration of the Cosmopolitan Club, and every

hour, the group read portions of "Jim's Story".

The event was absolutely outstanding--each speaker had over 20 years

sobriety--the event lasted from noon- 7pm and also included dinner.







History of the Cosmopolitan Club (as it was printed in the programs):



In April of 1945, Mrs. Ella B. Gant, a non-alcoholic arranged a

meeting between Charlie G., a white man and sober member of A.A., And

Jim S., a black man and an alcoholic who was still drinking. Mrs.

Gant had known Charlie when he was drinking and he had told her about

how AA had helped him. Upon hearing his story, she arranged for the

two to meet.

Out of that meeting was born the Washington Colored Group, the first

Black AA group. The group survived with the help of Charlie G., Bill

A., and Chase H. of the Old Central Group; DC's pioneer group of

Alcoholics Anonymous. Stories of our group have been handed down from

one generation of recovering drunks to the next. One story is that

sometimes there would be no one at the meetings, except Jim and his

wife, Vi S.

Jim S., in his story, reveals that "They came, many of them (white

AA's) and stuck by us and told us how to hold meetings, and how to do

12 Step work.

Most of the 12 Step work was done at a new alcoholic clinic located

at 7th & P Street, N.W. It was at this clinic that the group met

Julius S., whose sobriety dates from 1945 and who is the sole

survivor of that small band of recovering people.

The groups' first meeting were held in the home of Mrs. Gant. They

then met several times in the home of Mrs. Gant's mother.

The Group of approximately 15 men & women, with sobriety ranging from

a few weeks to one year, grew to nearly 30 members in the second year.

Jim S. began to seek space for a meeting. He approached several

ministers who praised what he was doing, but they did not offer

space. He then approached the Anthony Bowen YMCA at 12th & S Streets,

N.W. The "Y" rented a room to the group for $2.00 per night.

In this second year, the group's name was changed from the Washington

Colored Group to the Cosmopolitan Group of Alcoholics Anonymous--an

indicator that all suffering alcoholics were welcome regardless of

race. That group tradition remains in effect today.

Often, a YMCA employee would come to the meeting room door, and

beckon two or more members, then leave the room, on their way to

"Carry the Message"

These pioneers began to take their message to other cities:

Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City and Fredericksburg, VA.

Members of the group also included traveling sales men, with all the

energy of a crusaders, who took the message up and down the East

Coast as well.

In 1947, the House District Committee of the 80th Congress held the

first Federal hearing dealing with alcoholism and the need for

rehabilitation. At the hearing, Julius S., of our group testified

that he had not had a drink for 18 months! The Traditions, one of

which deals with Anonymity were confirmed by the A.A. Convention in

1950.

In 1950, the DC Police Court allowed AA into the courtroom where

meetings were held on Saturday mornings. Bob C., a probation officer,

began sending probationers to the Cosmopolitan Group. At a later

date, attendance at the weekly AA meeting became one of the

conditions of release. It was at the 1955 AA Convention, held in St.

Louis, that our founder, Jim S., became the first black person to

address a national AA Convention.

In 1970 or '71, the group moved to the Petworth Church located on

Grant Circle of Northwest Washington, and from there in 1975 to the

Peoples' Congregational Church.

Currently, we meet at the Emory Methodist Church every Monday and

Friday now at 8:oopm. We've been here since April, 1993. Jim S.'s

story reveals theat in the first fev month s of his sobriety, he

gathered up alcoholics in an attempt to save the world. He wanted to

give this new "something" to everyone who had a problem. Well, his

story concludes, "We didn't save the world, but we did manage to help

some individuals."



The Cosmopolitan Group would like to acknowledge the research and

time put forth by Dicker S. in compiling this paper.





Best,

Cindy Miller

Sunday Morning Group at the 4021 Clubhouse

Philadelphia, PA

-cm

`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>





- - - -



On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Glenn Chesnut wrote:



>

>

> WASHINGTON, D.C.

>

> Jim's Story in the Big Book (Jim Scott MD,

> Washington, DC). Some regard this as having

> been the first black AA group: April 1945.

>

> Big Book, 2nd edition #471, 3rd edition #483,

> 4th edition 232

>

> http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm

>

> (or http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html )

>

> This account says (but without giving a date):

>

> "When repairing an electric outlet for a

> friend, to earn some drinking money, he met

> Ella G., whom he had known years before but

> didn't recognize. Ella arranged for Jim to

> meet 'Charlie G.' who became his sponsor.

> Charlie was a white man. The following Sunday

> he met with Ella, Charlie, and three or four

> others at Ella's house. 'That was the first

> meeting of a colored group in A.A.,' so far

> as Jim knew."

>

> "Jim spoke at the 'God as We Understand Him'

> meeting held Sunday morning at the International

> Convention in St. Louis in 1955. Bill wrote in

> 'A.A. Comes of Age:'"

>

> "'Deep silence fell as Dr. Jim S., the A.A.

> speaker, told of his life experience and the

> serious drinking that led to the crises which

> had brought about his spiritual awakening.

> He re-enacted for us his own struggle to start

> the very first group among Negroes, his own

> people. Aided by a tireless and eager wife,

> he had turned his home into a combined hospital

> and A.A. meeting place, free to all. He told

> how early failure had finally been transformed

> under God's grace into amazing success, we who

> listened realized that A.A., not only could

> cross seas and mountains and boundaries of

> language and nation but could surmount obstacles

> of race and creed as well.'"

>

> Bob Pearson, Manuscript of A.A. World History,

> page 44, gives a date:

>

> "The Washington Colored Group was founded in

> April '45 by Jimmy S. It later changed its

> name to the Cosmopolitan Group to convey the

> fact that it was 'a group for all people, all

> races; it doesn't matter who you are.'"

>

>


0 -1 0 0
5754 arcchi88
Re: First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? 6/3/2009 9:22:00 PM


Greetings:



According to the history of the Evans Avenue

Group, which is printed every year on the

program for their annual banquet, Earl Redmond

did get sober in March 1945. He lived on Evans

Avenue at the time, which is where the group

got its name. They started meeting on a regular

basis from that time on.



I have also heard that St. Louis had a black

group in the mid 40's as well.



The Evans Avenue group has produced many long

timers. One that I know of just passed with

62 years of sobriety.



The annual banquet has had featured speakers

such as Bill Dotson (AA #3), Earl Treat

(Founder in Chicago), Judge Touhy (Why We

Were Chosen), etc.



Tom C



- - - -



--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

Glenn Chesnut <glennccc@...> wrote:

>

> CHICAGO:

>

> Chicago however appears to have had a black AA

> group started a month earlier, in March 1945:

>

> http://hindsfoot.org/Nblack3.html

>

> GLENN: Now what year did you come into A.A.

> in Chicago?

>

> BILL WILLIAMS: I think it 'uz, umn ....

>

> JIMMY H.: Forty-five .... It was December '45.

> Cause [Earl] Redmond came in in March, you told

> me ....

>

> BILL WILLIAMS: But anyway, I know Redmond

> came in in March, and I came in that following

> December.

>

> GLENN: So when you came to South Bend [in 1948]

> you had about four or five years sobriety behind

> you? You had a good program by then.

>

> BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah, I was pretty solid. I

> knew by that time that it was going to work . . . .

>

> GLENN: Now when you came into A.A. in Chicago,

> in 1945, did you hit trouble there too? Was

> there a color bar .... there in Chicago in

> 1945? I don't know anything about Chicago.

>

> BILL WILLIAMS: Oh yeah! Yeah, it was the same

> thing. It's still prejudiced, even now [1999].

>

> GLENN: How did you deal with that? In Chicago,

> in 1945?

>

> BILL WILLIAMS: Well, I was born in Texas.

>

> RAYMOND: He's a cowboy! [Laughter]

> ____________________________________

>

> So what further information can our AA historians

> from Washington D.C. and Chicago give us? I

> know that in Chicago, the Evans Avenue group

> still meets, although they have moved to a new

> location. I have visited their new building,

> and there were photographs of Earl Redmond

> and so on, and there also appeared to be a

> lot of other material there of great archival

> significance.

>

> Glenn C.

>


0 -1 0 0
5755 jax760
Origins of AA in San Francisco Origins of AA in San Francisco 6/2/2009 11:13:00 PM


They say "more will be revealed..."



The San Francisco Group was the first child of the New Jersey Group!



Below is part of the research I had done for the Timeline of the First 25 AA

Groups. I was recently adding some updates to a new "First One Hundred" list I

am working on when I realized that Ray W. from "New York" is actually Ray Wood

from Orange, New Jersey - a "First One Hundred" pioneer member of the New Jersey

Group with a sobriety date of March 1939. He is listed on the group survey of

1/1/1940 with 9 months of continuous sobriety. It was Ray that started AA in San

Francisco while on a business trip November 21, 1939.



(From the Timeline of the first 25 AA Groups)



A.A Group # 10 San Francisco, California



So it happened, that when an AA member from New York, Ray W., came to San

Francisco for a sales training course in November of that year he brought with

him a list of those who had made inquiries. Among them was Mrs. Oram's boarder,

Ted.



From his room in the Clift Hotel on Geary Street, Ray called those on his list.

He finally arranged for some of them to meet with him in his room on Tuesday,

November 21, 1939.



It was there that the first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous on the West Coast

was held. Aside from Ray and Ted, there were two others present, Don B. and Dave

L. and the meeting lasted about two hours.



As Ray mentioned, it had become clear that they would need to form an AA group

in San Francisco, where they all could meet regularly. Mrs. Oram offered her

kitchen as a meeting place. So shortly before Christmas, 1939, the first AA

group, the "San Francisco Group" began meeting in Mrs. Oram's kitchen, and later

in various members' homes. In October of 1940 they found a more or less

permanent site for their meetings in the Telegraph Hill Community House at 1736

Stockton Street in North Beach. (www.aasf.org)



AA's First Meeting on the West Coast

(Adapted from C.N.C.A History, prepared by the CNCA Archives Committee,

September 1984)



and more details....



Bob Pearson - Unpublished AA History Manuscript.



San Francisco and Northern California



The first contact with AA from San Francisco was a letter from Mrs. Zelpa Oram

who wrote the New York office following the Gabriel Heatter broadcast in April

1939. She was seeking help for one of her boarders, Ted C, a sometime traveling

salesman and full time alcoholic. In his mid-30s, he had been in and out of

jails and state hospitals for years. Mrs. Oram ordered a Big Book which arrived

in June, and Ted sobered up in July. The Liberty magazine article in September

attracted a number of inquiries from Northern California, who were advised by

the New York office Ray W, an eastern salesman, would be in San Francisco to

meet with them. On November 21, 1939, Ray met in his room at the Clift Hotel

with Ted C, Don B and Dave L Ray told them about the AA program and the Big Book

and turned over to them several more names to call.





God Bless,



John Barton

Area 44 H & A Chair



The Big Book Study Group

of

South Orange, New Jersey


0 -1 0 0
5756 Tom Hickcox
Re: Wednesday removed from 4th ed. He Sold Himself Short Wednesday removed from 4th ed. He Sold Himself Short 6/4/2009 5:17:00 PM


At 09:43 5/22/2009, garylock7008 wrote:



>Speaking of changes made in the 4th edition of

>the Big Book - I am wondering why they took the

>word "Wednesday" out of Earl T's story ("He

>Sold Himself Short," page 262/263) in the 4th

>Edition, in all the printings?

>

>Back in the past this was the only day

>[afternoon] a doctor in the town I grew up

>in - in Nova Scotia - ever took off.

>

>To me it tells of the sacrifice and dedication

>Dr. Bob and his family had made for the

>fellowship! With the stroke of a keyboard -

>a part of history is gone.



I was looking for something in Bill Dotson's story, A.A. Number

Three. I noticed on p. 190 that three little changes similar to the

one Gary mentioned were made in the 4th Edition. Two phrases were

removed, one phrase was relocated in the same sentence, and

"non-existent was changed to "nonexistent".



I know that over eighty changes were made in the original edition of

the Big Book. Many of these were correcting errors, and some

reflected the burgeoning membership, but the wording of a Step was

changed and "former alcoholic" and "ex-alcoholic" were changed to

"ex-problem drinkers".



I wonder if there is a tabulation of the changes made from the 3rd

Edition to the 4th?



Tommy H in Baton Rouge


0 -1 0 0
5757 Charlie C
History of sponsorship History of sponsorship 6/5/2009 8:44:00 AM


   I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at

times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a

non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that

one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with

amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned.

 

   My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the

1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct?

 

   Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today

become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of

discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's

sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records

documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group!



Charlie C.

IM = route20guy


0 -1 0 0
5758 Al Welch
Re: First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? First black AA group was in Washington D.C. -- or Chicago? 6/6/2009 4:44:00 PM


I have no known way to confirm the following told to me by an old timer that

has passed on.



Since the subject of black groups has come up, I was told that 48 years ago

there were very few black AA groups in Baltimore & Washington DC and they

decided to get together once a year for "A Gratitude Breakfast."



Sometime after the beginning one it was opened to whites as well. I

attended my first Gratitude Breakfast in 1979 being held at the Social

Security Headquarters cafeteria and have not missed one since. The most

recent one was February 22, 2009 and held at La Fountain Bleu in Glen

Burnie. (Yes, it has gone upscale)



Unfortunately, the roots of this breakfast have been largely forgotten or

deemed not worth passing on..........





----- Original Message -----

From: "Cindy Miller" <cm53@earthlink.net>

To: <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:18 AM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: First black AA group was in Washington

D.C. -- or Chicago?


0 -1 0 0
5759 nuevenueve@ymail.com
First Latin American country with an AA group First Latin American country with an AA group 6/5/2009 4:28:00 PM


Hi Group,



When and which was the first Latin American

country receiving the AA message?



Best Regards



Hugo


0 -1 0 0
5760 James Flynn
Re: First black AA group in Washington D.C. First black AA group in Washington D.C. 6/6/2009 5:16:00 PM


I have heard of the Metropolis Club in DC and

have been to a few meetings there.  But I have

never heard of the Cosmopolitan Club.  Does it

still exist?

 

Sincerely, Jim F.





--- On Fri, 6/5/09, Cindy Miller

<cm53@earthlink.net> wrote:



On Sunday, March 22, 2009, members of my HomeGroup rented a van and

we drove to Washington, DC - where the Reeves Club was holding its'

"4th Annual AA Old-Timers Speakers Jamm"

This event was also a celebration of the Cosmopolitan Club, and every

hour, the group read portions of "Jim's Story".

The event was absolutely outstanding- -each speaker had over 20 years

sobriety--the event lasted from noon- 7pm and also included dinner.



History of the Cosmopolitan Club (as it was printed in the programs):



In April of 1945, Mrs. Ella B. Gant, a non-alcoholic arranged a

meeting between Charlie G., a white man and sober member of A.A., And

Jim S., a black man and an alcoholic who was still drinking. Mrs.

Gant had known Charlie when he was drinking and he had told her about

how AA had helped him. Upon hearing his story, she arranged for the

two to meet.

Out of that meeting was born the Washington Colored Group, the first

Black AA group. The group survived with the help of Charlie G., Bill

A., and Chase H. of the Old Central Group; DC's pioneer group of

Alcoholics Anonymous. Stories of our group have been handed down from

one generation of recovering drunks to the next. One story is that

sometimes there would be no one at the meetings, except Jim and his

wife, Vi S.

Jim S., in his story, reveals that "They came, many of them (white

AA's) and stuck by us and told us how to hold meetings, and how to do

12 Step work.

Most of the 12 Step work was done at a new alcoholic clinic located

at 7th & P Street, N.W. It was at this clinic that the group met

Julius S., whose sobriety dates from 1945 and who is the sole

survivor of that small band of recovering people.

The groups' first meeting were held in the home of Mrs. Gant. They

then met several times in the home of Mrs. Gant's mother.

The Group of approximately 15 men & women, with sobriety ranging from

a few weeks to one year, grew to nearly 30 members in the second year.

Jim S. began to seek space for a meeting. He approached several

ministers who praised what he was doing, but they did not offer

space. He then approached the Anthony Bowen YMCA at 12th & S Streets,

N.W. The "Y" rented a room to the group for $2.00 per night.

In this second year, the group's name was changed from the Washington

Colored Group to the Cosmopolitan Group of Alcoholics Anonymous--an

indicator that all suffering alcoholics were welcome regardless of

race. That group tradition remains in effect today.

Often, a YMCA employee would come to the meeting room door, and

beckon two or more members, then leave the room, on their way to

"Carry the Message"

These pioneers began to take their message to other cities:

Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City and Fredericksburg, VA.

Members of the group also included traveling sales men, with all the

energy of a crusaders, who took the message up and down the East

Coast as well.

In 1947, the House District Committee of the 80th Congress held the

first Federal hearing dealing with alcoholism and the need for

rehabilitation. At the hearing, Julius S., of our group testified

that he had not had a drink for 18 months! The Traditions, one of

which deals with Anonymity were confirmed by the A.A. Convention in

1950.

In 1950, the DC Police Court allowed AA into the courtroom where

meetings were held on Saturday mornings. Bob C., a probation officer,

began sending probationers to the Cosmopolitan Group. At a later

date, attendance at the weekly AA meeting became one of the

conditions of release. It was at the 1955 AA Convention, held in St.

Louis, that our founder, Jim S., became the first black person to

address a national AA Convention.

In 1970 or '71, the group moved to the Petworth Church located on

Grant Circle of Northwest Washington, and from there in 1975 to the

Peoples' Congregational Church.

Currently, we meet at the Emory Methodist Church every Monday and

Friday now at 8:oopm. We've been here since April, 1993. Jim S.'s

story reveals theat in the first fev month s of his sobriety, he

gathered up alcoholics in an attempt to save the world. He wanted to

give this new "something" to everyone who had a problem. Well, his

story concludes, "We didn't save the world, but we did manage to help

some individuals. "



The Cosmopolitan Group would like to acknowledge the research and

time put forth by Dicker S. in compiling this paper.





Best,

Cindy Miller

Sunday Morning Group at the 4021 Clubhouse

Philadelphia, PA

-cm

`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>


0 -1 0 0
5761 David
African-American Participation in AA Meetings African-American Participation in AA Meetings 6/6/2009 8:55:00 PM


Is anyone aware, in either local, district,

area or international archives, or from

personal experience, of any information

concerning African-American participation

in AA groups in America or other countries

from approximately 1940 to 1970?



Thanks so much for your input!


0 -1 0 0
5762 Meritt Hutton
Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings African-American Pa